Colibri please do something to fix the economy

[Deedra]

Ive been here for 4 months now and when I started you could buy ED's for about 45k . Also at that time it was costing about 3-4 times as much to buy a power scroll as it does now and I had no problem selling 110's and 115's. Now the 110's and 115's are almost worthless as very few people are buying them. I had many options for my time to make over 1 mill a day, I was mostly doing champs at first but thats no longer a viable way to make money. Now, those options are not only dwindling away but as they do more and more people are doing the few things that are left over. There are people (Vets I assume) that say there is still a lot to do to make money, understandably they not are saying what those things are. Basicly the amount of money I can make in a day is getting less and the cost of buying ed's is going higher, the cost in gold has been rising steadily the last 2 weeks, up to 52k today.

Ive heard grumblings from other players as well that the new web page that lists the prices on each vendor has been helping to drive down the prices. Is there some way to stop this from getting its info?

Im not sure if this is your plan, if it is can you give us a good reason for it? Maybe you just dont realize how bad its getting? As ED's appear to be the main currency in the game it seems counter productive to make us have to work harder and longer to be able to afford them with gold. Or is it that your donations have dropped off and you want this so more people will pay real money for them?

.

[FunkSlaveTrade]

When u say the economy, are u only referring to exex? That is completely owned by the players, ppl are putting up prices that are higher than things should be, and it will continue to happen back and forth. Im sure once the ed's have sat there long enough at a high price without anyone buying, they will come down. Or those ppl putting the ed's at a high price can just sit on them. Kinda sux that people want to become billionaires over night. The economy itself will continue to rise and fall, thats the great wonder of economics, but kinda sad that ppl keep complaining when the prices are constantly high for one thing, and low for another. I dont think there is anything wrong with it, u dont want to purchase ed's at the current price, just wait. If no one buys ed's at 52k, then no one buys them, and they sit.
I've been back here a few months and have seen the prices rise and fall accordingly. One thing u have to understand, if u have a whole bunch of people doing champs because they are somewhat easy when u have alot of people at a champ, ur going to have a surplus of ps's, thus driving down the costs of them. I dont think its right that they rise and fall alot because there is a much higher risk involved in hunting rather than crafting, but we all know crafting doesn't really bring in money comparable to hunting, nor the items attainable during hunting. The rise and fall will continue to rise and fall, thus making the great circle of economics.
Forcing a gm to change them, simply makes it useless to have an economy run by the players. If u wanna force him to change it, then why even have it?

[FunkSlaveTrade]

Im not the greatest at explaining what i mean, so i was hoping to use this as an example. Currently in the real world, u have a huge economic crisis. However, u have politicians aka lawyers, trying to tell the economy how it should work based on macroeconomics. Although it has been proven in the past that if u try to base an economy on how people "feel" it should be, and try to make the case that there is a possibility that the economy can be perfect, that it simply doesnt work in the real world. They have tried to step in and print money, which we all know lowers the value of the dollar and makes the economy worse incredibly fast, and has a far worse outcome than to reduce regulations, and let people and the economy run itself. I have myself not seen the ed's go for 45k, and if they were to reach that level again, i would buy up as many as possible.
Again, not too good at explaining my points so im going to attempt to say this as plain as i can, leave it alone, and time will fix it. Try to force the "higher power" to change it, and u simply remove the ability of it to fix itself, and then make it pretty much useless to have players run it.
Currently there is a keg war going on, it is great for every other person cept the ones who were running a business on them. We have all seen this happen, and read the flaming back and forth. If it continues to happen, they are wasting their time, but making it easier for all other players to purchase said item. Let it be, and let time do its thing.

[Xavian]

I agree, prices will go up when people get tired of fetching low gold for their items. And they will drop *eventually* when people get tired of waiting to sell them. I maintain a certain price on my items, whether they sell or not. Either people are going to pay that price or they won't. There are times when my vendor will stay stocked for a week or two, and other times when it's empty as soon as I stock it. Things change on their own as stated above. There is nothing wrong with the economy except the complaints people have about it.

[Dramoor]

The problem with the vendors.uoex.net price is, It is extremely easy now to undercut everyone and be that guy that checks it every 5 minutes and lowers the pricing either to be rude, or to sell faster. Same problem there is on [exex . You now can just at the click of a button, become the lowest seller, instead of having to actually search, It is now as easy as 1 2 3 to ruin the price of something, or just become the lowest to sell it faster. Also I think something for exex as an idea would be that if you are selling an item on there as a sell order, you should not be able to have a buy order of that item in at the same time. Sick of listening to people complain "they just buying it cheap, and reselling for profit instantly. Should at least make em not be allowed to purchase at same time as selling. But yeah, Since vendors.uoex.net has been put out there, I have noticed pricing has dropped by half it not more on most items in the game, This may be good for new players trying to get ahead, But it is by far not good for the economy where as peeps said EDS dont drop dramatically. yes You donate for those, But you dont see those dropping price because those are the more wanted currency for the more useful things, Same as tokens, rarely does tokens drop lower then 2gp per. Sometimes does, but usually lows off there. And the rest of the items, keep dropping and dropping. Another problem is these portal maps to buy imps from the stone for 500 elven notes, raise the price of the imps there, Since noone sells them for value to notes anymore. Also Coli said he was thinking of doing and probably going to impliment (unless he just lies to shut players up) was to make the portal map one time use, so when u use the map, it poofs away. Would be better since 1 person gets a portal map now and 50 people use it. Could help on pricing for imp pets if you made them harder to get then "hey i got a portal map Free for all to use!" I have more but I will keep them to myself. lol.

[FunkSlaveTrade]

So we should just throw out the window the opportunity to make a deal? From what ive noticed so far, the people complaining all the time about prices are the ones who tend to have more than others. If ur buying things off exex at a super low price and then raising the prices on them, ur probably not making crap because of the transaction fee, so im sure there are people doing that with not a lot of success, and probably losing both money and time. There is never going to be a successful way to make this arguement, b/c if they keep changing the economy based on the lifer's here complaining they are not making enough profit, ur eventually going to lose so many people that there wont be people to sell too. I dont want to make it seem like im hating, or trying to be rude to anyone, but seems to be a few small people who want to ruin it for all the rest. Its either a free market system, or there is no system, and its just back to npc's and vendors. I love both systems, appreciate the fact that i dont have to spend all day long searching vendors who havent been updated or re-stocked for items im not even sure they have. Most people who have alot of ps's, i usually have to hope they are online to find out if they have what im looking for, and what price, and that doesnt even mean a deal will be made.
The system will take care of itself, and just like stated earlier, if prices are too high, people wont pay, its as simple as that. If the internet wasnt a success selling things because ppl were more aware of what they were buying, and what competition was out there, they would have to invest alot of time with no guarantee of information. As far as i can tell, having that much information out there seems to work pretty well for people using the internet for sales. I just dont want to see a good system ruined by a few people who r not making as much money as they "feel" they should make b/c other people are willing to settle for less for their items. +Coli is ultimate decision in this and really doesn't matter what i or anyone else says, but its nice to know who charges a crap load for their stuff, and who is reasonable, and understands ppl dont have weeks to look for one item, only to find out its way out of their price range. All i know, having options creates opportunity, and competition is good. Sorry if i offended anyone.

[+Nyx]

I think what a lot of folks who come here and talk about "economics" fail to understand is that what one may know about real world economics has very little to do with video game economics. In the real world, there is essentially a finite amount of money. Governments don't print new currency every day, or even very often. But in a video game like ours, there are massive amounts of new money being flooded into the system every single day from mob drops, quests, etc. The rate of inflation is insanely higher than in the real world, and it can spin out of control in a matter of a couple months. The idea that folks won't pay more for an item that is being asked more for is only true to a point. At some point, the amount of money in the average player's bank is high enough that people will start paying more, and that shifts pricing on all sorts of things. People begin to ask more for *everything*. And other people begin to pay more for everything, because they can, and/or because they're excited, impatient, etc. Pricing shifting this way then widens the gap between the newbies and the mid/high level players. Which makes it harder for Excelsior to retain new players.

I have no official input regarding the vendors site, or the economy of Excelsior in general. +V and I do what we can to sink gold from the more wealthy folks and to help the newbies get set up more quickly, but at the end of the day managing things like this is entirely on Colibri.

[Dramoor]

So we should just throw out the window the opportunity to make a deal? From what ive noticed so far, the people complaining all the time about prices are the ones who tend to have more than others. If ur buying things off exex at a super low price and then raising the prices on them, ur probably not making crap because of the transaction fee, so im sure there are people doing that with not a lot of success, and probably losing both money and time. There is never going to be a successful way to make this arguement, b/c if they keep changing the economy based on the lifer's here complaining they are not making enough profit, ur eventually going to lose so many people that there wont be people to sell too. I dont want to make it seem like im hating, or trying to be rude to anyone, but seems to be a few small people who want to ruin it for all the rest. Its either a free market system, or there is no system, and its just back to npc's and vendors. I love both systems, appreciate the fact that i dont have to spend all day long searching vendors who havent been updated or re-stocked for items im not even sure they have. Most people who have alot of ps's, i usually have to hope they are online to find out if they have what im looking for, and what price, and that doesnt even mean a deal will be made.
The system will take care of itself, and just like stated earlier, if prices are too high, people wont pay, its as simple as that. If the internet wasnt a success selling things because ppl were more aware of what they were buying, and what competition was out there, they would have to invest alot of time with no guarantee of information. As far as i can tell, having that much information out there seems to work pretty well for people using the internet for sales. I just dont want to see a good system ruined by a few people who r not making as much money as they "feel" they should make b/c other people are willing to settle for less for their items. +Coli is ultimate decision in this and really doesn't matter what i or anyone else says, but its nice to know who charges a crap load for their stuff, and who is reasonable, and understands ppl dont have weeks to look for one item, only to find out its way out of their price range. All i know, having options creates opportunity, and competition is good. Sorry if i offended anyone.

Earlier I thought you might have had some points, but now I just realize you want everything for free like the rest of the game. Point is, I got more cuz I earned more, paying more. Just cuz OH QQ 3 mil for batwings too much. Well i got em when they cost 5 mil. SO just cuz I have more, I had to earn that gold as well. So all your logic, just went out the window.



BTW, I make 5mil roughly per day without selling anything on my vendors.

[anarchy]

BTW, I make 5mil roughly per day without selling anything on my vendors.

hahahaha

fyi: i can make about 40 mil a day. in about hm.... an hour maybe.

[Dramoor]

fyi: i can make about 40 mil a day. in about hm.... an hour maybe.

WIthout donating or selling anything nor using sgail or wrong or umbris

:p

[FunkSlaveTrade]

sorry dramoor, i knew u would probably take that the wrong way. U might have all day long to play this game, but not everyone else has that luxury. What Nyx said was right about the economy here, and im sure she has seen the proof as well as dramoor. I didnt mean to offend those who have alot, and i dont want everything for free, ive given away so much crap and never asked for anything from anyone here. Im not claiming to have the answers to that problem, b/c she had a great point, in that money is almost non stop here, its not realistic, so cant solve the problem realistically. I just dont think that we need to blame anything on ppl having choices, and being able to see those choices on a webiste, nor attack exex. Which if anyone doesnt know already, way cheaper to go to a npc vendor and not buy off exex for most things when the prices are jacked up, unless they got loads to spend and it doesn't matter. Ima leave this one alone like i thought i should have. Good luck with solving the problem guys!

[Deedra]

Well how about looking at things from my point of view, Ive thought about this for a while before posting. Im past the 220 dex mark but that didnt open a whole lot of new things for me to do,just made some of them eaiser. Ive been trying to do the GOC quests and while it might be doable Im looking at a huge grind because I will die a lot and\or take a lot more time than others who can do it, I still get 1 shoted by most of the mobs I need to kill. There isnt much content (that I can find) that I can do now that I couldnt do before. If anyone has suggestions for making tons of gold Im all ears.

With the prices dropping like they are and ED's going up in price this is going to take me a lot longer to get money for relayers. I need at least 4 (So Ive been told) of these relayers to step up to the next level. While I agree with Nyx that high prices make it harder for newer players to get started, the prices where pretty high when I first came on as well. Not as high at when Dramoor started but still a lot higher than they are now and I was able to get the items needed.

The point Im trying to work towards is, low prices may be good for new players but they are bad for people who have reached the point they need to start getting relayers. Now if Anarchy would share his knowledge on how to make 40 mill in an hour Id be very happy but we all know thats not going to happen, unless of coarse he just donates that much every hour and sells the ED's. As it is I struggle to make a 125k an hour. At this rate it takes me about 200 hours of farming (not doing the things I enjoy) for 1 relayer deed, not including anything I need like taking an arty tag off of it etc. If the prices where back to the level they where when I started that time would be about halved.

Dont forget people, anyone who gets to the same point Im at will have the same problem. Only way to avoid it is if your one of the lucky people who are working during this depression and can afford to buy the ed's with real money.

[Dramoor]

Hey, What I am saying is It hurts you not me. You like it, cool, but in the long run its hurting all of you.

[Stilton]

In all honesty I think the Economy is fine as it is. The main thing to remember with a persistent world like ours is that it's rather static.
Unlike other MMOs where there is a clear progression from A to B to C - see Questing to Leveling to Instanced Dungeons/Raids etc - UO has always been a do what you want, when you want, how you want.

With this shard also, with the accelerated skill gain and no cap to the skills you can have, once you have essentially got to the point I am at:
145STR/150Dex, 70 Resists, Average Luck, 80%+LRC and a Weapon or two to level, the game does come down to a grind for cash (or paying RL cash for EDs - which in the case of us great unwashed unemployed is rather untenable) and/or getting lucky with drops to sell for relayering/leveling.
Now if you make things a lot cheaper then it will take people less time to work for the cash, and then once you have what you want, unless you have a good group of friends in game, or a nice large guild that's rather chatty, the whole allure of the game and it's draw will fade.

Even though I only have circa 4.75million in cash, I dont feel poor, I feel I can buy most things I need without a thought about it, I have a stash of 10k+ of each reg, 5 to 10 of each Keg type for my beekeeping, and I'm happy with that.

OK I would love to have a druid book, many relayers and my 220+ dex, but it's a goal. And without a goal that takes a long time to work for then there's no draw for me to keep playing and working towards said goal.

Personally I made the fatal mistake of messing up my 1st 21 days. Rather than firing out 5 toons and farming the newbie dungeon quest, I sat back and mined/lumberjacked and trained archery. Believe me though, if I could restart my account I wouldn't. I worked damn hard to overcome my shortfall and get the (really quite average now I think about it) gear and nothing would make me change it.

Anyway I probably went way off topic there as I only skimmed the previous posts - can never concentrate when I'm watching my Sunday morning BBC Politics programs

[Melkor]

Just two little things. Historically 110s and 115s have very little value, if they were selling for good value for awhile, it was a fluke.

What interests me is the price of EDs on exex. Before when you donated in US dollars, EDs where 60+k each on exex. When +Colibri switched the donations to Euros (drastically raising the price of EDs for real money) he said EDs would be more available on exex. For a long time now, you would never see EDs higher than 48.5k. Which I believed was the price he set them at. I haven't been able to get online yet today, but if you say EDs are 52k each, then either he has raised the price, or stopped selling them altogether. If he did stop, then the sky is the limit for the new price of EDs. I would personally prefer if he didn't see EDs because EDs, but that's me.

You say Vets say there are lots of ways to make gold on the shard. Well from my experience, it's the people who farm gold straight from monsters all day that make the most gold. However for me it's too boring and/or I don't have a good enough script to do it.