Economic improvements?

[Ilsanor]

Well, it doesn't have to be a flat 24h timer. More like the powersave - you never know when it hits.

[ticketguru]

I believe that the single biggest problem that is causing the economic issues being seen, especially with powerscolls, is a lack of newer players on the shard. For the economy to run well, we need to have a large number of newer players, a fair number of middle experience players and a comparatively small number of top-tier players. The newer players are the ones that will really drive the economy; they all need equipment, powerscrolls, gear, etc, and will will keep the demand for all those items higher. The issue being seen over the last year or so is that a larger percentage of active players are the more experienced ones. Those players don't need any more powerscrolls, crafted gear and all that because they already have all of it. We need to find a way to attract and keep new players. UO is a relatively old play system so it attracts only a small number of active players. Those new players who are coming to UO are finding other free shards that have all the latest bells and whistles. +C has been good about adding some newer really useful features and I don't know how much more a single developer can accomplish in terms of adding new features and fixing the current broken ones. The fixes that have been proposed to "control" the economy would only succeed in driving more newer players away, not encourage them to stay. As players, we need to encourage and support the newer players without just giving them everything; if the newer players lack a challenge, they won't stay around either. Remember to vote as that too attracts new players to the shard.

[Asmodean]

We have new players. I see several log on nearly every day, unless its just vets making alts, which I have no way of knowing.

You are 100% correct in that newer players help drive the economy with equipment, power scrolls, pets, etc. And you are also correct about more experience players sticking around a bit longer, and having stuff. So, the problem has become both one of a lack of retaining newer players, and veteran players stocking up commonly needed items, which in turn they fight each other for a sale to a newer player, at ridiculously low prices because they have multiples and just want the gold.

So, you end up with an item that could easily sell for 2 mil, selling for 1 mil, or 750k, because 3 vets have 15 of them, and just want to get rid of them as quick as they can.

If we had an alternative to remove this item from the economy to incentivize players to use rather than hoarde these items, prices would fix themselves in short order.

I think we lose a lot of players because they see they can't compete easily with some of the older players to make money. They have nothing that's really geared towards new players only, because there is nothing geared towards only vets other than sgail, wrong, and umbris. So, we have vets competing with newbs, and being much more efficient at it.

That's why One suggestion i posted in private entailed a new world geared only towards veterans with re-layers, on a scale-able level to give them a sense of progression as well. Someplace for those with 1-3 re-layers to fight, and be somewhat challenging. From there, you move on to a place that's geared for players with 3-6 re-layers, 6-9, etc.

These places don't need to drop a million gold in 20 seconds, if they have other things of value in them. Maybe remove oints from the whole of Fel, and make them only drop here. IMPS and BIOS are ADVANCED pets, something to work towards, not just have on day 4.

If you give older players things they can do, they will do them. If only for something different. But the comparative value has to meet or exceed current stuff.

I think its great that we have stuff for new players to make it easy for them to get a house, and some beginning stuff. AWESOME! But like you said, many other shards have all the latest bells and whistles. We need more custom stuff (if not the newest bells and whistles) to stay competitive, draw new players, and keep old ones. Unless the overall goal is to attract new players, collect their donations, and scare them off to make room for new players to collect their donations, and scare them off to make room for new players....

I'd like to see our average players hit 300 again, rather than 150. Hell, I'd love to see us hit 500, or more!

[Stilton]

We def have new accounts indeed.

We have new players. I see several log on nearly every day, unless its just vets making alts, which I have no way of knowing.

If I recall correctly ( and apologies if I'm wrong here), the whle 'Welcome Player X to the shard' message only appears once per account, so in my case I do not think there was a 'Please Welcome Stiltontwo..' all the way to Stiltonfive!


I think a lot of the issue is people attitudes to the wealth.
People start on the shard having come from a modern MMO, see the likes of Anarchy and PaPa sitting by West Brit bank, and assume that they can be decked out in that level of gear in 6 weeks, when in reality, without Real Cash(tm) to fork out they need to wait 6 Months +!

[Ilsanor]

I think it'd be closer to 6 years to get the 18 relayers Anarchy has without donations. Unless someone played 24/7.

[Stilton]

18? Sheesh I knew he had a lot but didn't realise it was quite that many ^^

[anarchy]

erm. more like erm... 15 re layers. i still use a goc chest (great for mana and casting stuff), a goc sheild, and a 3x 8 bracelet which i'm replaying soon. oh and goc boots. which i'll eventually replace. so 14 re layers.

[Stilton]

Still a godly amount though matey
Still working on deciding what to level as my first one at the moment ^^

[Larsa]

Still working on deciding what to level as my first one at the moment ^^

The next best thing to Titan's Hammer is the Bone Crusher, as it has +10 Str

So, you end up with an item that could easily sell for 2 mil, selling for 1 mil, or 750k, because 3 vets have 15 of them, and just want to get rid of them as quick as they can.

I don't really think vets are unloading lots of stuff as of late... there are some stuff that has a bottom price and I am one of those that rather display it than selling low even if I have like 5+ of the same thing. Unless, I really like you and I will give you a break on the price. Most vets can make 2mill in matter of hours so why going on a sell low war?

I think we lose a lot of players because they see they can't compete easily with some of the older players to make money. They have nothing that's really geared towards new players only, because there is nothing geared towards only vets other than sgail, wrong, and umbris. So, we have vets competing with newbs, and being much more efficient at it.

I don't compete with newbs, it is mostly newbs trying to compete with vets when they venture to these areas and cannot handle it.
Day one: train all combat/healing skills,
Day two: Animal taming FTW!,
Day three: Imps, nobles, mules,
Day four: Newbie champs
Day five: read how to be 220 Dexxer
Day Six: This sucks... getting no where and I cannot make enough for my relayer.

In no form or shape I am trying to mock new players... as I and everybody else in here was a new player once. Only that I took the slow path, learned and enjoyed the game. Honestly, all the trammel dungeons are less used... why not start from there? You can make good gold in destard and at the ophidian's lair... I think these are pretty much geared for new players. I am not sure about the other vets but I mostly spent most of my time leveling my next relayer and do the harder spawns. Topple that up with filling bods, some crafting and yeah.. back to do some bees (sigh).

That's why One suggestion i posted in private entailed a new world geared only towards veterans with re-layers, on a scale-able level to give them a sense of progression as well. Someplace for those with 1-3 re-layers to fight, and be somewhat challenging. From there, you move on to a place that's geared for players with 3-6 re-layers, 6-9, etc.

I am with you on this one, I even suggested that we should start adding the expansions like SA and HS, but I guess cause it is a big core limitation or integration that it is a huge project to tackle... Besides the GM events that's pretty much the only thing most experienced players do... mass gold hoarding with no where to spend it (well now we have a new goal 30K Elven Notes for Ethy Reptalon!!!)

Great post Asmo, and like many ppl just stated... the economy will eventually balance itself out. Just have to ride it out

[Pentaur]

I don't really think vets are unloading lots of stuff as of late... there are some stuff that has a bottom price and I am one of those that rather display it than selling low even if I have like 5+ of the same thing. Unless, I really like you and I will give you a break on the price. Most vets can make 2mill in matter of hours so why going on a sell low war?

What we have seen latley is a lot of vets selling relayers...I don't know why but there has been a ton of them...Way more than there used to be.

Asmodean wrote:
I think we lose a lot of players because they see they can't compete easily with some of the older players to make money. They have nothing that's really geared towards new players only, because there is nothing geared towards only vets other than sgail, wrong, and umbris. So, we have vets competing with newbs, and being much more efficient at it.

I would really be interesed in seeing at what point people stop playing on the shard...Everyone assumes it's the newer players that leaves...I think that it's more the middle level players that do... The shard does a great job for the under 21 days crowd but what caters to the mid level? The GOC quest is about it and I understand that the quest does give good rewards but at the same time those rewards directly conflict with the standard "220 dex suit"...Where does a mid level player go to get decent gear? Relayers are the next step and it's a huge one...There is no bridge between the two...This is where I think the shard looses it's mid level players...When it dawns on them just how much time/gold/donation is involved.

[Melkor]

I would really be interesed in seeing at what point people stop playing on the shard...Everyone assumes it's the newer players that leaves...I think that it's more the middle level players that do... The shard does a great job for the under 21 days crowd but what caters to the mid level? The GOC quest is about it and I understand that the quest does give good rewards but at the same time those rewards directly conflict with the standard "220 dex suit"...Where does a mid level player go to get decent gear? Relayers are the next step and it's a huge one...There is no bridge between the two...This is where I think the shard looses it's mid level players...When it dawns on them just how much time/gold/donation is involved.

I agree, i believe most people leave around the six month mark. that's what i've noticed in my time here.

The progression to a full (or near full) suit of relayers is for the most part a multi year project. And you don't need a full suit to get get the 220 dex. The progression, in my opinion is, get a full ressit suit and some pets. Get 3 or 4 GOC parts and some 8/8 jewellery. Then phase in relayers. replacing weaker items.

[Stilton]

[

I would really be interesed in seeing at what point people stop playing on the shard...Everyone assumes it's the newer players that leaves...I think that it's more the middle level players that do... The shard does a great job for the under 21 days crowd but what caters to the mid level? The GOC quest is about it and I understand that the quest does give good rewards but at the same time those rewards directly conflict with the standard "220 dex suit"...Where does a mid level player go to get decent gear? Relayers are the next step and it's a huge one...There is no bridge between the two...This is where I think the shard looses it's mid level players...When it dawns on them just how much time/gold/donation is involved.

This I can relate too.
As I have said in the past, running 145/145/55, the usual additions like 85%+ LRC and 500ish Luck, nothing brilliant but nothing totally fail.
I think the only way that 'mid level' players can get going is by:
1) joining a guild that is active and does things
2) getting lucky with drops
3) spending a looooong time hoarding cash.

I agree that that it is the big issue, my usual UO day consists of adding pots to my 22 hives, gathering my BODs, then killing (if I can get to them) a load of Fan Dancers to level my bow, or killing a load of red ninja/samurais at the dojo to level my Darkened Sky.

Admittedly it's all well and good recognising the issue, but finding a solution is a lot harder - plus of course it's kicking the bum off of 23:00 here so my brains a but mushy - but I'll have a think myself anyway over the next few days.

[Pentaur]

I agree, i believe most people leave around the six month mark. that's what i've noticed in my time here.

This is what happened to me...I played 3 months; got discouraged because I wasn't seeing the progression;then I left for 6 months; now I have recently returned for another 3 months (I just hit my 1 year account total)...I believe something like this is typical and it seems a shame that it happens as much as it does...I know of 4-5 people that I was friends with before I left that are no longer here; all of them started around the same time I did.

The progression to a full (or near full) suit of relayers is for the most part a multi year project. And you don't need a full suit to get get the 220 dex. The progression, in my opinion is, get a full ressit suit and some pets. Get 3 or 4 GOC parts and some 8/8 jewellery. Then phase in relayers. replacing weaker items.

See the problem lies in you can't wear 3-4 Goc pieces and maintain 220 dex...Using the "standard 220 dex suit" on the wiki you have 3 GoC pieces(Boots, Gloves, and Sleeves) that directly confict with the "dex suit"...That means only the chest piece is of any real value until you find some way to keep 220 dex..Currently I have in my bank GoC Boots, Sleeves and Gloves all of which I can't wear and keep my dex at 220...Even if I was to raise my base dex to 150(it's currently 145) and wear a Ravnos Shield that would only give me enough to replace my Batwings with GoC boots...Still that means I'm only wearing 2 pieces of GoC armor yet I have 4...My only other option is the Glittering Ice wrap from X-mas and thats assuming they decide to run the X-mas event again(which I have no control over)...After that there is nothing I can do except farm cash/donate to earn my first relayer and slowly work in more as time goes on...It seems like a big brick wall...As I said earlier there's nothing to bridge the gap between mid level and uberness.

Admittedly it's all well and good recognising the issue, but finding a solution is a lot harder - plus of course it's kicking the bum off of 23:00 here so my brains a but mushy - but I'll have a think myself anyway over the next few days.

You could add in some new items (with the same rarity as batwings- the goal is to give options yet maintain difficulty) with Dex on them for differant slots like shirt, pants, and sash...A second idea would be to change the GoC sleeves and gloves to have Dex instead of Int...Doing so would allow people to replace some of the "220 dex suit" with the GoC set which imo is of the appropriate difficulty for a mid level player.

A little brainstorming could turn up a lot of interesting ideas...This is assuming the higher ups even consider it a "problem" and who knows if they even do?

[anarchy]

this was talked about before maybe 2 years ago. it was a goc quest for warriors. a warriors path. had dex and str but you had to give up the casting stats.