Rules changing: away-from-keyboard rule specifics

[Wil]

Is AFK away from the keyboard or is AFK not paying attention to the game screen?

i would like to have that clarified too, I spent a lot of time scripting macros while playing because i like coding,

Here's my thinking:

There are large and critical portions of the game which are, to be blunt, far too boring and repetitive to pay close attention to. Coding makes that OK. It's one of the reasons I picked a server that doesn't restrict my choice of scripting engine. If the requirement is that I pay close attention always, that's going to be a problem that wrecks my enjoyment of the game.

That doesn't mean no-attention. Macro-mining 24/7 is pointless; may as well just make an unlimited ingot dispenser and and skip the network and server load.

Surely there is a middle ground. A way that lets me pay LOOSE attention to the boring, scripted tasks while doing other things on the computer yet prevents me from scripting unattended. A 10 minute timer so that as long as I notice within 10 minutes I'm not stuck in jail. Or a predictable gump or journal message I can script an audible alert to. Or a popup from the portal web page that jumps in front of my active window and says, "Hey buddy, you have an AFK check to respond to in the game." Maybe occasionally follow the detectable check with an admin check: after all if you really did show up to do the automated check then there's a reasonable guarantee that at that moment you're either cheating or paying close attention.

The current situation is relatively balanced. The repetitive stuff that tends not to impinge on other players (like mining) generates automatic checks that are easy to detect. So long as I'm actually at the computer and promptly respond, all is well. Stuff that does get in the way of other players (like weapon leveling) is stealth-checked in ways that are hard to detect with automation, demanding close attention.

Anyway, it's worth reducing the manual load for afk checking ('cause, well, that's a boring repetitive task and this is supposed to be fun for the admins too) and it's worth discouraging folks' attempts to defeat the AFK checks with full automation but but as you consider how to do this I'd be really cautious about upsetting the current balance.


As for my own UOEX jail experience, I've been pulled to the jail location once for backtalking +V on the forums but never actually assigned jail tasks. And a long long time ago +C unwound some of my ED when I voted 5 times a day but no jail. I was also blocked from making thread under the old system because I didn't realize that

[Muolke]

Surely there is a middle ground. A way that lets me pay LOOSE attention to the boring, scripted tasks while doing other things on the computer yet prevents me from scripting unattended. A 10 minute timer so that as long as I notice within 10 minutes I'm not stuck in jail.

I strongly disagree, 10 minutes is way too big of an interval. I frequently mine, I don't have a script, I do it all manually. It's part of the game and if you find it too boring then find something else in game that you don't find boring. In my opinion the current 60 second requirement is just fine, the only thing i'd change is to make the AFK check more noticeable. I'd say, give someone 30 seconds to reply to an AFK check, if within 30 seconds they don't reply, then they get ported to a certain area where they have another 30 seconds to answer. That way it's obvious what's going on.

[Wil]

I strongly disagree, 10 minutes is way too big of an interval. I frequently mine, I don't have a script, I do it all manually. It's part of the game and if you find it too boring then find something else in game that you don't find boring. In my opinion the current 60 second requirement is just fine, the only thing i'd change is to make the AFK check more noticeable. I'd say, give someone 30 seconds to reply to an AFK check, if within 30 seconds they don't reply, then they get ported to a certain area where they have another 30 seconds to answer. That way it's obvious what's going on.

I think you're missing my point. 60 seconds works fine for me too. It's not about the exact mechanism.

If you make an activity less interesting to the player, it will be performed less and you'll have downstream effects to every dependent activity. Gameplay here is already skewed towards fighting over crafting. Make it less interesting to gather resources and you'll starve crafting and bods, skewing the game play further. I think that would be unfortunate.

AFK checks requiring only loose attention (like the one you describe) maintain the balance. AFK checks requiring close attention (like the manual checks you describe disliking) are more harmful to the enjoyment of the game and, I think, should be avoided where practical.

TL;DR: Loose attention good, close attention bad, optimize to catch folks who fail to pay even loose attention and optimize for admin convenience.

[Possum12]

I do lots mining & lumbering and do not have a problem with the automated checks even when the frequency increased last year. Yesterday I got no checks in a 3-4 hour mining stint, some days I might get 3 in the one hour - no issue typing 3 letters here.

In fact I would like to see the check rate be increased even further for gathering.

Don't macro it at all save the "last action" key. Sometimes I do also find it a bit boring, but I usually set myself personal goals like ore quantity before I change to do something else. Note I do tend to use a gargoyle tool most of the time, except around dreadhorn & the summoner, having an elemental spawn can liven things up a bit.

This is where I chuck in a request for the spawn chance of an elemental for gargoyle pick to be reviewed? So much poorer then the gargoyle axe rate.?? I'll even toss in a pretty please with a cherry on top.

[Muolke]

I do lots mining & lumbering and do not have a problem with the automated checks even when the frequency increased last year. Yesterday I got no checks in a 3-4 hour mining stint, some days I might get 3 in the one hour - no issue typing 3 letters here.

In fact I would like to see the check rate be increased even further for gathering.

Don't macro it at all save the "last action" key. Sometimes I do also find it a bit boring, but I usually set myself personal goals like ore quantity before I change to do something else. Note I do tend to use a gargoyle tool most of the time, except around dreadhorn & the summoner, having an elemental spawn can liven things up a bit.

This is where I chuck in a request for the spawn chance of an elemental for gargoyle pick to be reviewed? So much poorer then the gargoyle axe rate.?? I'll even toss in a pretty please with a cherry on top.

The spawn rate for an ore elemental seems a bit low, but, having said that...the demand for runic hammers and tinker kits is down quite a bit. A platinum runic hammer used to sell for 1,000 gold per use and a platinum tinker kit for 5,000 per use. Now the runic hammer sells for 500 gold per use (1/2 what it used to be) and tinker kit for 3,000 gold per use (40% less). So we can go ahead and increase spawn rates and those prices will just come down even further.

[Devlin]

I'm all for increased AFK checks or, at the least, a broader definition of what constitutes as AFK farming. Personally, the only things that bother me about AFK farming are:

- Anything centered around recalling that leads to a direct profit (hunting, resource gathering, etc.)

- Farming at one location/spawn for a period of time with little to no deviation in actions (basic movement in circles, [claim macro, abilities/spells, etc.) There's a few spawns in specific that generally have an AFK farmer at them that come to mind. This has been GNAWing at me for a bit. It's a bit of a TRAVESTY that this wasn't KEYed in on earlier. *cough*

I don't necessarily agree with the change from AFK checks being focused around specific actions to any actions. It seems to be a disproportionate response and more punitive than restorative; a few ruin it for many. Iunno, just seems like we would get AFK checks on a lot of silly, little things in order to cover a few larger things. Might be worth broadening the forbidden list and introducing the recall delay before implementing something server wide that could be more of an annoyance to many than a deterrent to a few. Focus on the high-value afk farming that exists (recall hunting/resource gathering, balrons, a few specific spawns, etc.) and egregious repeat offenders.

[culichi]

This is where I chuck in a request for the spawn chance of an elemental for gargoyle pick to be reviewed? So much poorer then the gargoyle axe rate.?? I'll even toss in a pretty please with a cherry on top.

i agree but ive never brought it up because i was afraid the result would be nerfing the axe as well

[culichi]

I do lots mining & lumbering and do not have a problem with the automated checks even when the frequency increased last year. Yesterday I got no checks in a 3-4 hour mining stint, some days I might get 3 in the one hour - no issue typing 3 letters here.

In fact I would like to see the check rate be increased even further for gathering.

Don't macro it at all save the "last action" key. Sometimes I do also find it a bit boring, but I usually set myself personal goals like ore quantity before I change to do something else. Note I do tend to use a gargoyle tool most of the time, except around dreadhorn & the summoner, having an elemental spawn can liven things up a bit.

This is where I chuck in a request for the spawn chance of an elemental for gargoyle pick to be reviewed? So much poorer then the gargoyle axe rate.?? I'll even toss in a pretty please with a cherry on top.

The spawn rate for an ore elemental seems a bit low, but, having said that...the demand for runic hammers and tinker kits is down quite a bit. A platinum runic hammer used to sell for 1,000 gold per use and a platinum tinker kit for 5,000 per use. Now the runic hammer sells for 500 gold per use (1/2 what it used to be) and tinker kit for 3,000 gold per use (40% less). So we can go ahead and increase spawn rates and those prices will just come down even further.

raise the elemental rate but drop the runic tool drop rate. of course then ingot prices will drop which is fine for people that can handle the elementals but will really hurt miners who cant handle the elementals. if only problems were easy to solve hehe.

[Coalfire]

I also agree that a new or improved afk check needs to be in effect. I have no issue at all with the captcha one that pops up from time to time when I'm out mining. But today shortly after the new staff member meet and greets I hit the swamps to collect a few seeds for planting. When all of a sudden an extremely hard to read text appeared above my head. The first time it appeared I wasn't expecting it, and wasn't able to read it fast enough. Checking journal was pointless cause it was already buried in combat messages.
The next time it appeared... "What is the name of this game?"
I quickly typed "UO". And thought I was good, but then the same question appeared again. This time I said "Ultima Online". "UO", and "Excellsior" one right after the other. All the while trying to stay alive in the over infested swamps.

Next thing I knew 2 Admins appeared at my location. I was panicking.

There has to be a better way.

[fixxer1963]

I also agree that a new or improved afk check needs to be in effect. I have no issue at all with the captcha one that pops up from time to time when I'm out mining. But today shortly after the new staff member meet and greets I hit the swamps to collect a few seeds for planting. When all of a sudden an extremely hard to read text appeared above my head. The first time it appeared I wasn't expecting it, and wasn't able to read it fast enough. Checking journal was pointless cause it was already buried in combat messages.
The next time it appeared... "What is the name of this game?"
I quickly typed "UO". And thought I was good, but then the same question appeared again. This time I said "Ultima Online". "UO", and "Excellsior" one right after the other. All the while trying to stay alive in the over infested swamps.

Next thing I knew 2 Admins appeared at my location. I was panicking.

There has to be a better way.

Another just before bed time thought....
Maybe drop a temp book or something into the backpack with the question? Possibly that huge book and make it bright (#1923) colored?

[PaPa]

I realy think the AFK checks are not Big enough or often enough i like the idea of qbf said about reading a book in the AFK check room that has like one random word in it cant cheat your way around it but still only give like 1 min total to do the whole thing, more then a 1 min then it could still be cheated. even with the current manual afk checks since when the admin asks the question it still shows up in the journal and with scripts can read it and repeat or even do basic math, and you could be in different room and hear a ding or warning somone is talking to you and rush back to game and answer question. so the current system is flawed also. I guess even being moved to a room could be scripted to warn you if you have been moved by having a location check script. Got to think How can you beat the scripter. cuz almost everyone's scripts could be used to afk or at least semi afk. so giving to much time to the player to switch screens or get back to the computer and pass the afk check.

So last time i went fishing ( 8 months ago) i got the automatic AFK check were you put in 3 letters worked well but it needs to take up like 70% of the screen and happen more often.


The AFK check needs to be able to not be detected by a script, No journal entry. NO spawning of something. (cuz scripts and search for any items or monsters) but needs to be noticable in game so that you know the payer has eyes on the game even if they are not paying real close attention to it.

would be kinda cool if you could encircle the player in a big flame killing any spawn by the player or make them temporary immortal this would give the player safety while doing the AFK check. cuz sometimes it hard to see the AFK check and respond to it while trying not to die. The big flame circle, or like the druid tree spell but with a bright color would be big enough to catch players attention then the AFK check but of you spawn anything like a book or journal message a script and detect that and then notify the player. and that would defeat the AFK check

[Wil]

So last time i went fishing ( 8 months ago) i got the automatic AFK check were you put in 3 letters worked well but it needs to take up like 70% of the screen and happen more often.

The more it happens, the more samples a cheater can collect to let him defeat it.

Also, it hasn't happened to me yet but every time I've been afraid that I'd mistype one of the letters or perceive a V as a U or the like. The automated check isn't very flexible in the face of human error.

Here's a random idea: no punishment for failing an automated check, but failed automated checks cause a manual check to be scheduled the next time you do any checkable activity while an admin is online. Manual checks are done only in response to failures of the automated checks and are based on attempting a conversation with the player before and, if necessary, after porting the character to jail. As the admins are easily smart enough to perform a Turing test, this approach can't be beaten by cheaters. Also, the admin can both jail the player and look in the logs to rewind the ill-gotten gains. An automated script can't readily do the latter.

Benefits:
* No punishment for design flaws in the automation -- improved fairness.
* No consumption of admin time prior to evidence that the individual was AFK -- minimized admin hassle.
* Can design a moderately difficult check without risking unfair punishment from false positives -- improved effectiveness.


Also, this is an important point to consider: you don't need to catch the cheater the first time. Or the second time. You just need to catch him sometime. Scores of false negatives are better than a single false positive.

The AFK check needs to be able to not be detected by a script,

I respectfully disagree. First, because it's not achievable. Look at the sorry state of Internet captchas if you think it is and ask how much effort +C should put in to a coding arms-race with cheaters. And second because punishing people for letting their attention wander from window to window is just plain wrong. Responding should be hard to automate. Detecting should not be.

[PaPa]

yes capticha can be scripted with pixial recognition or even a simple AI, but if your at that level then your right there is nothing +coli can do but to prevent it, but the easy ways to detect the check as in no journal entry or new items appearing in bag or on floor. both of them are easy for a simple script to detect.

as for the automatic captions were you have to do the 3 letters samples wont matter cuz there is 17,576 different combinations.

I think there should be more automatic AFK checks from 1-2 a hour at random time frames you might get 1 with in the first 10 min and then not get one till a hour and a half or get 2 with in the first 30 min but 1 to 2 AFK checks a hour at total random times with no warning like journal entries or items appearing

as for failing the afk check cuz you miss typed i think you should be given 2 chances to get it right but you have no more then 1 min to answer it. It realy should take you no longer then 30 seconds to see the capticha and type in the 3 letters so 2 checks an hours wont take more then 1 min and you can go back to farming what ever you were doing.

We have to rember that the AFK checks are needed, to prevent people for cheating. Cheaters destroy games and families.

and to take 1 or even 2 minutes of your hour to help prevent cheaters Should be welcomed by everyone.

[dreamstalker]

i aint complaining at all about afk checks i believe they are needed n all that. on other hand the one with lil glitterin lights around u aint all that great considerin bod with 50 mobs around u n ur in the middle whackin away with all ur aoe's goin off and damage numbers are dancin round your head like pixie dust ......lil hard to notice luvz yall anyways

[Charon]

I'm having trouble grasping some players comments.

AFK is and should be straight forward.
- You have 2 minutes to respond correctly, allowing for 3 attempts (in case of type O's)
- You fail the check go to jail, go straight to jail, do not collect $200.
- Min 1-3 day ban after you completed your tasks, depending on what you were doing while afk.
- Afk faming a unique spawn or rare resource, more punishment more tasks.
- Potential for all loot from previous 1hr of game play to be removed from player.
- Players jailed are subject to more random afk checks by GMs

- Perhaps new Counselors have ability to trigger the auto afk on players reported to be afk.

Agreed auto check needs to be more noticeable, Smoke and lighting all around the player for instance.
You want to minimize afk cheating, give people a punishment that will make them reconsider.

Just my thoughts.