Economy Crashing

[+Nyx]

Just so you're aware, there's already a gump that pops up to inform new players of the codex/website/wiki and prompts them to accept the rules.

I can't even tell you how many newbs get in trouble for rule violations and we point out about the gump and they say "I didn't read it" and "you can't expect me to read all that"

So, even a change to the existing gump just wouldn't really do any good for 99% of the new players, since they'd just not bother to click it. There's not a lot we can do about willful ignorance without becoming ridiculous and losing players irritated by all the in-your-face newbie-helping gumps/functions we might try to add. There's a certain level of self sufficiency every new player needs to have, in reading the codex and checking the wiki/asking/googling how to do things they want to do. Those that aren't willing to do those simple things aren't generally worth going out of our way to add more and more "help" stuff for, as they will not enjoy their experience here enough to stay the long term anyway - eventually they'll hit a point where they're expected to help themselves and then they'll get mad/frustrated/bored and quit. Happens every darn time.

[Maze Scarlethart]

Yeah I know, I just thought I would offer some sort of solution rather than come on here and start yelling about how everyone is a bunch of poopy pantses and I'm the god of all noobs. I personally do not see very many noobs that do not know what Mistvale is aside from those who are not old enough to do Mistvale, The guild I am in makes sure that all of our noobs are well geared and well informed however I do not personally know all of the noobs in the game so perhaps there is a problem so I thought I would add something that might help solve this problem... sorry my idea sucked lol.

[+Nyx]

Nah, it didn't suck. It's a lot better than hearing we're poopy pantses for the 9billionth time this week XD

[moonsongtx]

+Nyx, you're poopy pantses!

[+Nyx]

[Baeldorn]

I feel like there is a little too much moderation going on in these forums...

Why is a little, not even profanity such a big deal on the forums. I mean we are all adults, and there is very little possibility that we will have young people reading this. And man always throwing around, we will jail you and so forth, is really off putting. If you wish to say such words to certain individuals, send them a pm.

Anyways, I digress. I really hate to be a naysayer to the rest of you. But the economy is pretty much up a creek without a paddle. The relayer deeds are pretty much impossible to get unless you donate or take a year to farm for. Given that you don't intend to sit at the computer 24/7 and just play casually. There is an off chance you will get lucky and be able at get something in the gauntlet and make it levelable and whatnot, but that is really all you can do until you start buying ED.

Crafting is essentially a joke on this server. The point of crafting in this game was to supply people with goods that would be lost. Insurance pretty much makes sure this never occurs and blessed stuff always makes sure that never occurs. So really the only items worth buying are deco stuff, which for some people doesn't really float, PSs and you only need so many of those, Artifact weapons...and only certain ones of those. And ridiculous relayered stuff that is nigh impossible to get because of the insane price due to ED value.

I have seen the amount of vendors in Town Center pretty much almost completely disappear. Also, those places need to be rehashed they look terrible. All cluttered and such. And why Tokuno, and not in Brit...I never understood that. Anyways, I can confirm that the prices are pretty out of whack like Mall has stated. I see people selling Runebooks for 1k, that is a little unsightly. I mean seriously...I want to create my own library, and I was like seriously 1k...a book...so I said to heck with it and just leveled myself. So there you have it. If items like that were priced right, I wouldn't be pushed to level a useless skill like inscription to get the Runebooks I want, and someone that actually took the time to level it would be rewarded and I wouldn't be spending my time leveling it.

There is some serious balancing issues with the economy that need to happen, or this shard will continue to decay...I know I see a lot less people on than a I did many months ago, but that could just be time of year...what do I know right....

There really is a huge separation of people on this shard, there are those that are geared to the hilt, and there are those that are not....and the ability to get to the geared to the hilt point is many, many, many months away. Which if you want a continuation of play seems like a good thing in some respects. But on the other hand, if people stop donating then there will be no more ED to buy and hence no more geared to the hilt stuff.

Also, when people disappear. Lord Blackbird, one of those people that helped me when I began, you will lose a lot of those items that were stored in those players houses and such, meaning that wealth just in many ways just simply disappears.

In any case...I agree the economy right now is rough. Old players will not buy crafted items, as there is no need for them. Young, beginning players can't afford the exorbitant prices on vendors (and exex, man prices on there are outrageous) for things that are inconsequent value to older players, hence a lot of the reason simple things are not even available on vendors.

So unless something changes I don't see the economic slump changing anytime soon.

[MhBlis]

1. Honestly there are a number of newbies who don't want to just be given everything. Take myself for example I love the fact that so many people offered me help but part of what I enjoy in UO is working my way up and finding my own pieces. Yes its much slower but honestly I enjoy it. (Related is 4.)

2. The amount of newbie helping that exists on this shard is staggering. Be it guiding as a mentor, advise or even giving basic starting gear to help with training. But it is still up to the new player to ask or accept that help. If they are running around in basic leather then it is their choice. This is a social game on a very social shard after all.

3. See reading your post it becomes very clear very quickly where you are running into problems. You have reach the point where only a very few very specific pieces of gear are going to be better than what you have. That means you are now at the stage where vendor sold items are no longer going to be useful for you. Again this is where the social aspect and trading comes in. Something that has been part of UO since day 1.

4. I actually feel the transition into mid range gear is too stark and it quickly invalidates a fair chunk of content. (Mistvale)

5. Crafting is in a bad place and has been since Pub16 on live. Once crafted gear stopped being the best source of gear or at least on par it becomes effectively pointless. This bares out not just on UO but any MMO. (Again Related to 4.)

Right now the economy isn't in a bad place for us early mid level players.

[+Nyx]

I feel like there is a little too much moderation going on in these forums...

Why is a little, not even profanity such a big deal on the forums. I mean we are all adults, and there is very little possibility that we will have young people reading this. And man always throwing around, we will jail you and so forth, is really off putting. If you wish to say such words to certain individuals, send them a pm.

This is a family shard. So yes, we do have young people who can/will read the forums, and that sort of language is against the codex.

Moderating is part of our jobs, this server is what it is because we actively moderate it. It'd be a very different, much less pleasant place if we didn't.

As for reminding players of potential consequences, well, if they're bringing their bad behavior to the public mediums, we reply in kind. It avoids the default "I am a perfect angel and did nothing wrong but I was abused/victimized/bullied by staff for no reason!" sob story that folks give any time they've been privately warned for public misdeeds. If one does not want to be publicly warned, one should not behave so poorly in world chat or on the forums. Pretty simple to avoid. We don't enjoy having to discipline or warn or remind players of the rules, but it's the job. It isn't difficult to express oneself in a tactful manner, so the issue could easily be avoided all together if folks made a modicum of effort in their approach. However, troublemakers and people lacking in impulse control/social skills are always going to exist and thus make moderation necessary.

If it bothers you to read it, well, not much to be done there except not to read it. *shrug*

[MhBlis]

Following on from Nyx here.

Honestly its why I chose this shard, it is actively moderated. Thing is I have to deal with people and their excessive profanity on a daily basis. I dislike it and at times find it downright offensive. But it is the profession I chose. Thus having to not deal with it in my leisure time is a huge bonus and a choice I make.

Yes I was raised in a culture where profanity was frowned upon and taught it poorly reflects on the individual. It has it's place but it is often miss used. A case an point in this thread where it actually distorted and interfered with what the posters were trying to say.

[Melkor]

I see people selling Runebooks for 1k, that is a little unsightly. I mean seriously...I want to create my own library, and I was like seriously 1k...a book...so I said to heck with it and just leveled myself. So there you have it. If items like that were priced right, I wouldn't be pushed to level a useless skill like inscription to get the Runebooks I want, and someone that actually took the time to level it would be rewarded and I wouldn't be spending my time leveling it.

1k seems overpriced to you? 1k is like a penny here. Not trying to flame you, just kind of blows my mind.

[Dain Firehelm]

Just wanted to chime in on the runebooks thing.

I'm now in kind of an UO break but i regularly sell runebooks, and i do for 1 or even 2k some times, and i'll explain myself For me its not about how cheap or not cheap is it to create them, is about the time it takes. Cause when u're crafting them, u dont craft 2 or 3, but 20 or 30, and that takes some time. For any player that can hunt balrons and such, it would be just not worth it to craft them.

Howeever, i do enjoy keeping a bookshop, so i decided to sell them for the said price. It takes more time to sell, but otherwise it wouldnt just be worth my while. And all in all, 1 or 2k are still merely coppers...

hope this explains a bit

cheers!

EDIT: in fact, when my bookshop is in full stock (runebooks,BOD books,full spellbooks...), it makes about 60k a week... so u can imagine is more of a hobby than a serious bussiness

[Asmodean]

Are you being serious? 1k for a rune-book made you level up inscription? IT takes the freshest of newbies less than 60 seconds to make 1k. A single escort quest will pretty much get you that. Do the rat quest ONE time, sell the organics, and you can make 20k or so. So yeah, 5 minutes of work to pay for something you'll use in your house forever is way overpriced!

In my opinion, things here are way under-priced, because everybody can learn everything. In standard UO, people couldn't learn everything, so that made it so you either had to have multiple characters, or rely on other people. That doesn't exist here very much, because everyone can just learn everything.

A re-layer is ~25 mil depending on the price of ED. (25,000,000 / 50,000 = 500 ED) If you can earn 250k a day (which is not very hard with even just 5 mules), it would take you 100 days, which isn't very long considering the power of the gear. Your next one will go quicker, because you will earn gold quicker from your new stats/power. If you add 24 bee hives into this, you'll net probably a mil a week from bees alone, which is 15 minutes of work a day. so that's 4 days of the 250k covered right there, with a total effort of an hour a week. So 750k you need to earn, in a week, to have a re-layer in 100 days. And that's not even getting lucky, and finding a good item to sell, like SoT, or bone crusher, or anything...

If you level a weapon from 1 - 100 yourself, you'll earn a few mil just from [claim'ing the corpses. Not to mention gems, leather, or anything else you might take the time to loot. Gold is not difficult to earn here. Stop blaming your laziness or lack of knowledge on the economy being overpriced, when in fact, its exactly the opposite.

[moonsongtx]

What 1k Runebooks actually buys you when you shop many vendors...

8 Blank Scrolls
1 Recall Scroll 1 BP, 1 BM, 1 MR, 1 Blank Scroll
1 Gate Scroll 1 BP, 1 MR, 1 SA, 1 Blank Scroll
1 Unmarked Rune


Blank Scroll 5 gp each
BP 5 gp each
BM 5 gp each
MR 3 gp each
SA 3 gp each
Rune 15 gp


So...
5x8 = 40
5+5+3+3 = 16
5+3+3+5 = 16
15

It takes 87 gold for the MATS to make the book if you buy them all off the mage vendors. If you do it like I normally do, and shop off the reg stone and exex, the cost goes up to about 100 gold per book. So yah, that 1k price may seem steep still.

But...to succsefully make a runebook, you need 80 inscription. Now granted, you can go from 0 - 50 skill with the "no blank scrolls/reagents" way... very slowly. But in the amount of time I can go from 0 - 50 that way, I could instead be out farming a LOT of gold. So I'm losing money on that one... then from 90 to 100, you either have to do BOD Books (which honestly not many people buy) or Resurrection Scrolls, which not many people buy either. So in making those you're basically throwing money away.

So after many hours of training, you finally get 80 skill. Now I don't know what the success chance at 80 is to make a runebook, but I'm 120 inscription and only have a 54.3% chance of an Exceptional, so I'm guessing at 80 one fails a lot. I'm guessing (once again, I'm GUESSING!) that at 100 inscription you will have 100% chance at a regular runebook.

Now... that 1k still seems like a lot? Many of those that make runebooks to sell also GIVE them for free (1 per newbie) to players who are asking questions about them. I usually also load the runebook with 9 or 10 recall scrolls (whatever they can take).

So, in working up the skill, gathering the mats, paying for the mats, writing out the runebook, giving away some for free, AND locking myself in the dungeon to work on them as opposed to going off and farming gold and/or just having fun with my guild... Yeah that 1k per runebook is worth it. And since I usually sell out of them on a weekly basis, apparently other people think 1k is a good price too.

[Asmodean]

Don't forget the vendor costs to keep those rune books on your vendor too Neve.
Daily upkeep, plus the most important thing of all. Your TIME. Many people seem
to never value their time on video games.

They throw things out there like well, I mined those ingots, so I can charge 1 gold per and still make money!
Which is true, kind of. It would be interesting to see how much people pay themselves in uo wages when they
sell their goods. ie: it took you an hour to make 20 runebooks, selling at 1k each, subtract materials cost and
vendor costs... how much did you make an hour?

how much could you make if you did something else? I bet nobody here would work a real job for $1 an hour, but
in a game, that is perfectly acceptable behavior.

[Alex]

Also, lets assume the following hypothetical scenario:

- New player joins and ONLY does rune books to pay for his progress.
- A relayer deed will always cost 500ED (~25 million gold) no more, no less
- Now instead of having to sell 25,000 rune books (at 1,000 per) he will need to sell 250,000 rune books (at 100 per)
- The new players progress is severely slowed down with the so called true price according to comments above, while the benefits go all towards the older players

With this oversimplified example (but its true for many other things on this shard) low prices often hurt new players more than older (vet) players since an older player will never think about making a rune book but rather buy it (the time value equation leans much more towards farming gold than crafting once you progress further in the game, buying many crafted items which new players can profit from).

This concept most always new players dont understand that the long-term effects low prices hurt them more than anything. Us older players help by a) paying for the vendor malls (free vendor spots and paying the weekly fee which is 200k or more per week) and b) paying premium prices helping new players progress in game. And in many other ways.