Combat the Inflation

[+Nyx]

re: vendors being right in the spot where newbs start.. yeah. I actually made Mistvale (the real Mistvale, not the safe-haven version that y'all know) for this exact reason, so newbs could start somewhere pretty and relaxing, somewhere low-key that had all their immediate needs (vendors, tutorials, lockpicking chests, quests, etc) in one enclosed area. They could then leave and go explore the shard at their leisure. +C approved of it when I built it, but then it never got around to being implemented so eventually I went and built the safe haven building outside of ex halls and moved all the quest NPCs and dungeon entrances there so the newbs could at least begin utilizing them immediately. I still hope that someday +C will get around to implementing the actual town of Mistvale for newbs to start in, I think we lose a lot of players who log in and are simply overwhelmed by TC.

[Golden Temptress]

[Yoda]

re: vendors being right in the spot where newbs start.. yeah. I actually made Mistvale (the real Mistvale, not the safe-haven version that y'all know) for this exact reason, so newbs could start somewhere pretty and relaxing, somewhere low-key that had all their immediate needs (vendors, tutorials, lockpicking chests, quests, etc) in one enclosed area. They could then leave and go explore the shard at their leisure. +C approved of it when I built it, but then it never got around to being implemented so eventually I went and built the safe haven building outside of ex halls and moved all the quest NPCs and dungeon entrances there so the newbs could at least begin utilizing them immediately. I still hope that someday +C will get around to implementing the actual town of Mistvale for newbs to start in, I think we lose a lot of players who log in and are simply overwhelmed by TC.

how dare you have a rational and reasonable solution to such a thing.... its...

oh wait that was yesterday, yeah that sounds about right, what is an interesting cause/effect that occurred that I like to look at as one of those silver linings, although the dropping of daily sallary in TC increased an inflow of deco rare's and high end content, which is the concern. Player shops I have noticed went the other way, stocking the lesser items and more basic things, its as you said in your previous post to this one, its a community, strangely community solutions begin to just sort of "happen" in their own time. The nerd in me (which is 99% of me) really finds these sorts of social "results" very fascinating.

having said that, your idea is much better, if there was a player contributed vending solution to a more newb friendly space I could see it working with item price limits or something to make these more "newbie" focussed. Id be interested in doing something like that, I am sure there are players other than me that think beyond profits and numbers that would also be interested.

but on the subject of vendors , their daily salary etc. honestly I think a bunch of the balance between tc player stores mz etc could be ended forever by dropping the daily salary for all vendors, in order to preserve the delicate TC first priority just keep a bundle of specific enhancements back for certain areas.

1. Player store, costs to rent teleporter, costs to list on vendors.uoex.net
2. Makuto Zento, cheapest rentable vendor spot, free vendors.uoex.net
3. TC, more expensive rent, full features including multi currency.
no daily salary anywhere

there would still be a premium and reason for TC vendor spots to be in very high demand, while at the same time causing players who would be better served via a player store (to better display stock) to do so without a cost penalty via the daily salary. I also think some of those larger inventory stores in TC, really don't display well since you are trying to cram it all in one pack, it leads to a confusing shop.

I have found over the years too that shards with a high daily vendor salary tend to have depressed prices, here it is a little different (obviously) but, certain mid level items tend to have had their value reduced by it for sure, not so much the big ticket items, but hunters headdress, ravnos shield etc. It wasn't just supply and demand at work depressing the value, the cost to keep it on a vendor patiently quickly outpaces the return, things are priced to sell quickly.

I don't know the sallary was removed in tc and the sky didn't fall (well not MAJORLY) I think it could be dropped everwhere and correct a few bottlenecks. No Sallary TC is a full tc sure, but full of what, and how much per vendor.

anyway off topic

I find one of the many ways to fight inflation of a great many things is a strategically placed kitteh

[+Nyx]

I actually meant NPC vendors in my post about Mistvale-the-newb-town, not player vendors. They'd need mages and thief guildmasters and so on and so forth, so I populated the town with all the types of NPC vendors they might need as noobs.

+C recently mentioned to me that with this instancing thing he added, we should eventually be able to make it so that players of all ages could visit these newb areas, they just wouldn't be able to see the quest givers or other content that was specifically for newbs. This would solve the constant "can we visit mistvale just to see" requests I still get

Once that functionality was usable for this purpose, I would be completely open to moving the youth center (or establishing some other version of it) in Mistvale-the-newb-town, where older players could contribute and help new players get integrated into our little community. It would be better, IMO, than the way it is now. Town center is just really intimidating to a new player, especially when the first thing they see is tons of player owned vendors with billions of gold worth of items on them. When I was doing newb greetings regularly, a large portion of them would take a few steps from their login spot, usually toward the vendors, pause for a minute and then log out (sometimes in the middle of my greeting even), never to be seen again. It just doesn't send a welcoming, encouraging message the way it is now.

[Yoda]

honestly it makes a tonne more sense to just go your way with npc's I have often wondered how much shopping a new player with a start check and a skillball actually logically would do in the first place.

If its about first impressions you'd present a well laid out space with npc vendors, questgivers, training equipment, little manual tutorial things, all laid out nice, modestish itemcounts (compared to billions in gold on a full set of vendor benches) its streamlined, pretty, well laid out and low lag.

to me you are spot on thats the first impression you want, and that's how you get them beyond the daunting first hour (still amazing fresh green first time uo'rs appear, like how often)

as you have said when the new options present itself the youth center could be relocated Id love that actually, it needs to be more active, (youth center) Its been a while since Penny had it really rolling with the auctions, and the Q&A Id be open to discussions with a few of the old guard of players about, perhaps really putting something in place there from the player side. We used to have it, it was one of the things that was ours as a community and it wouldn't take much to bring it back stronger than it was before. I think its essential to maintaining a vibrant community, I could see logical reason to integrate the radiostation into the facility or a satelite station etc. What was so excellent about the classic community center is that it was very player run, it wasn't attached to any one guild, players built up and found their spot, it was very natural

[Ysara]

Why are people treated so badly on the forums when they suggest a change? People have opinions. Parsec's heart is in the right place. He was wanting to help. I think that he was treated really poorly by some of the people that replied. It's sad that new players are being treated this way just because they *gasp* dare suggest at making a change to the shard. Yeesh He didn't hurt anyone. It's not evil to try to help. I think that we really need to show more understanding to other's opinions.

[Baxster]

Hi Ysara,

I don't know you. I've never met you in-game or spoken to you. However, I think you should change your name. I think it's weird. Might I suggest Yshara? Or Ysora? Ysari? I like these much better. I've suggested people rename their characters before so I have a lot of experience with it.

Please show some understanding and respect my opinion, I'm just trying to help.

Thanks, take care!

[+Nyx]

Nobody was treating him badly. While everyone has opinions, everyone also has their own personalities. Our group tends to run toward dry humor and sarcasm, heavy emphasis on meme-fu, but nobody cussed him out or told him to shut up and leave, nor anything else "mean". Ysara, you seem to be an indignant person in general, but did your post really contribute anything to this thread? It seems to me (from the chat logs) that you made up your mind about our collective behavior before you'd even read the thread, and so your reply also seems like it was based more on how you want to feel about it than what actually took place. I think there's a bit of transference here, with lingering hurt feelings over your own newb-wants-to-change-the-shard-to-suit-them thread. There are reasons these threads aren't generally well accepted, but continuing to escalate something that wasn't a big problem in the first place doesn't help your friend or anyone else.

While one's heart can be in the right place, that doesn't guarantee that one is saying anything helpful or well-thought out. When one is too new to the shard to even have a clue how things are done or why, or whether or not inflation is at all an issue here, then one should probably not post a thread touting it as a huge issue and trying to make changes. It comes off presumptuous and usually a bit arrogant ("change the shard to be what I want it to be when I've only been here a few days/weeks and not had time to really learn or do anything to lend weight to my opinion"). Additionally, making wildly inaccurate statements about the staff essentially stealing from players' banks is offensive to everyone from the staff on down the line. It's something that if actually done would cause most of the players to up and quit, something we would never in a million years do, something so far against what we as staff stand for and strive for here that the statement was just baffling. To think that someone is telling new players this is immensely irritating. I see in the logs, however, that parsec was NOT told this, someone was instead telling him about the grand auctions and parsec misinterpreted what was said. But even a quick inquiry in world chat would have resolved that issue ahead of time.

Yes, his idea was shot down by a staff member, but what would you have us do? The way to get good, helpful input from people is to be honest in addressing it. This suggestion was a dud, I explained to him why it wasn't going to happen on uoex, and encouraged him for the future. It isn't helpful to run a shard in an echo chamber where we all just cuddle and hug everyone who makes even the most ludicrous suggestions completely not based in anything resembling fact. It might make everyone feel good but it's no way to solicit the best, most helpful and on-point input.

How, where, and when one presents their input matters as much, if not more, than the validity or usefulness of the input itself. I don't think enough folks take that into mind before making these sort of unsolicited forum posts (particularly as newbies).

[Golden Temptress]

[GreenBar]

Why are people treated so badly on the forums when they suggest a change?

Imagine you're cruising down the road, top down, sun shinning, excellent music blaring on the radio. Suddenly a stranger jumps out of the bushes and frantically waves you down. You pull over and they jump right into a lecture on how radio antennae are best mounted on the right side and yours is on the left. They proceed to tell you how they've mounted many antennae before and demand you change yours right now.

Now imagine a different situation. You're neighbor comes over, dropping off the paper they picked up at the end of the drive. They thank you for driving everyone to the party last night and share how much they enjoyed the evening's entertainment. They mention noticing your car radio had some static. Points out they used to work as a stereo installer and ask if you'd like for them to take a look.

When you see the difference between the two approaches, you'll understand why shard veterans are reacting poorly to the way new players are jumping out of bushes, waving their arms, and demanding changes.

[+Veritas]

I've played on an arma2 dayz vanilla server, and epoch server, and an overpoch server, as well as 2 different arma3 exile servers in the past years. Each one had an economy based on player trade because every so often someone would shoot an ai chopper down onto another players base and everything would be lost, or someone would desync into the ground their blackhawk full of 3 hours worth of mission loot into the ground, or the magic AI aim with an RPG would happen from 500m away and their armored HMMWV full of .338 rifles and DMRs would go kaboom. We have death loss here, but I am confident it is nowhere close to the all or nothing situation that most arma servers have. If you had an insurance system on your server, I guarantee you there are many arma admins out there who would love you to share that.

Anyway, other than what Nyx and other have said already, I am not sure what more I can contribute. I love the mindset of players wanting to improve something they are a part of, so long as they are well acquainted with the current situation or system they want to approve. The original post seems to me like it was good intentions based on 2nd hand information and what one can see the first 30 paces of playing on the shard. I would suggest diving into the forum threads and reading past discussions on the economy, or starting one where your intent is to get a discussion going about concerns people have (if any) rather than walking into a situation with a bit of information and an idea of the whole picture. A little bit of information can be a dangerous thing.

Take this example of my own personal stupidity experience:

Two years ago at Disney World Epcot, I asked a worker where she was from after seeing she was from Germany. She said where she was from, and I said my father was stationed in a city where there was a large cuckoo clock on top of the city hall building (At the time, I forgot it was Munich). She looked at me with a "you idiot" face, and said "That just about every major city in Germany, sir."

Point is, you found a shard with staff who regularly communicate with each other and players. I know I haven't been very public lately, but I live with Nyx and talk about shard issues daily (yes, daily). Colibri runs stuff by us, and we do the same with him. We talk about gold sinks and providing auction items that people want to drop all their money on, which is why we have those 2.5b checks to show off at town center.

Rest assured, you found a shard with staff who think these things through and are working on things to address what needs to be addressed.

+V

[culichi]

Ive first seen the prices in the shops, then the scrolls stating "thanks for help fighting the inflation" with 2.5bil in there after a player told me that the wealthy players keep giving aways huge amounts to that avail. because of that and the fact that usualy pve servers in any game have to deal with a good amount of inflation made me have the conclusion that inflation is a big problem and i told him about my idea. he then said that i should create a post about it. I just wanted to help here by giving an idea to fix this in a fun way and wouldnt have guessed that id be memed upon lol. If this isnt a problem what so ever, then i am sorry for the fuss.

parsec don't take the response to personal its just that your post sounded similar to many others in the past who also were brand new to the server also claimed to be admins on other servers and had simple solutions to perceived problems with our server. if you think about it I think you'dagree it does come off a bit insulting to us when someone who freely admits to being brand new here offers to fix our "broken" server. I don't think you meant to be insulting and I did not take offense but I do think you should have waited a bit to get to know us better before offering to be our messiah hehe. I hope you stick around and get to know us rather than get angry at our responses I think your a good sort of person to be part of our community. get to know us most of us are really friendly and only a little jerky .try to avoid negative people who only log in to complain about how terrible everything is unless of course that's what you enjoy about MMOs.

[[Glyph]]

And please don't forget that the opinions you want to be able to express are being expressed right back by folks who have been playing on this shard for quite some time. If you expect that people will not defend "their home" and what they enjoy, well, that might be a little unrealistic. As I recall you came in and wanted the entire housing system upended because you could not find a spot to place an 18 x 18. I believe that you received some opinions and feedback on that as well. Most everyone here is helpful (yes, in a sarcastic and funny to them way), but helpful none the less. Especially when you ask questions and read the wiki (can't say that enough) and still need assistance. We all have our "ways" about us and at times our backhanded compliments or comments seem rough or uncouth. However, the people that understand that there is a learning curve and that some things take time to accomplish, are usually very happy here and appreciate this community. We all have the choice of whether to play here or somewhere else. Please post well researched options or off the cuff ones, but be able to laugh at yourself if you "step in it". Just remember we are all playing here to have fun. Hopefully it will be for you as well.

[Wil]

Hi Ysara,

I don't know you. I've never met you in-game or spoken to you. However, I think you should change your name. I think it's weird. Might I suggest Yshara? Or Ysora? Ysari? I like these much better. I've suggested people rename their characters before so I have a lot of experience with it.

Please show some understanding and respect my opinion, I'm just trying to help.

Thanks, take care!

Howdy,

I don't understand how a sarcastic version of "your idea is dumb and insulting, please shut up now" is a helpful response. Unless the goal is to get Parsec to stop trying to participate?

Go back and re-read Parsec's first post. He just told you that new players' first impression is that the shard has an out of control inflation problem. Is that not helpful knowledge? We know the shard doesn't suffer from inflation, but that was his first impression... so strongly that he didn't even consider asking whether it was real. Do we want that to be new players' first impression? Is there anything in particular that caused that to be his first impression? Is there anything we could consider doing differently so that new players don't get that impression?

Regards,
Wil

[culichi]

baxsters response was addressed to ysara not parsec so his post really doesn't mean what you think it means