Weapons to re-layer: my biases opinion

[Kenekeo]

As the shard is progressing, I have seen many people doing varies weapons for relayering. So I thought this post might help new players get an idea for their relayering option. Again this is my opinion, but I would really appreciate it if others would add their opinions as well. Please try to add your reasoning on why you think one weapon is better to use than another.
*Warning; this will be edited as new and accurate information comes*

Weapons with Artifact tags
Meaning; you will need to spend 200 Excelsior Dollars to remove the artifact tag in order to remove the spending point penalty to weapon attributes.
--Example: in order to add 1 strength to a weapon with artifact tag, it will cost you 8 spending points. If you remove the artifact tag than it will only cost you 4 spending points.

1. Titan’s Hammer:
--a. Pro: 15 strength bonus. The str bonus will help increase your weapon damage base and give you 22 hit point from the str alone. Add the plus 8 Hit Point increase and you will have a total of 30 HP for a relayer.
--b. Pro: Damage Increase is 50%. But overall gear DI is capped at 100%
--c. Pro: Hit Chance increase is 15%.
--d. Pro: Whirlwind Special attack with 100% hit area. This makes leveling the weapon extremely easier than any other weapon. (keynote; mobs killed by any Hit Area will not give you weapon experience)
--e. Cons: it only spawn roughly once a month and is often not sold in the public market. Can be extremely pricey just for 10 extra HP
--f. Cons: Need to spend another 200ed to remove the artifact tag. Adding to the cost of having this weapon as a relayer
--g. Con: Due to the cost and rarity of this weapon and IF you already have 3-5 relayers done; a Cheap alternative is the Spirit of Totem IF all you are only looking for is the Hit Point increase. (see details on SoT for more info)

2. Bone Crusher:
--a. Pro: has 10 str bonus. Str bonus will add to your weapon damage base and 15 HP. Add the 8 HP increase and you got 23 HP. Only weapon beside the Titan's Hammer that will allow you to exceed the 8 str bonus on a relayer.
--b. Pro: DI is 75%
--c. Pro: easier to get than the Titan’s Hammer
--d. Con: still have to spend 200ed just for an extra 3 HP increase
--e. Con: not too many other beneficial attributes will carry over into the relayer

3. The Beserker’s Maul
--a. Pro: 75% Swing Speed Increase. However, SSI is capped at 60%, so anything over 60% is useless
--b. Pro: DI is 50%
--c. Pro: easy to find
--d. Cons: still have to spend 200ed just to get 75(60)% SSI and 50% DI increase. Not really worth it for just those two.

4. No other Artifact weapon is worth spending 200ed to remove the tag for a relayer.
--a. Yes, The Taskmaster is nice, but that is better off just as weapon (change it to a weapon with Whirlwind special instead).
--b. The Dragon Slayer has luck and resistance, but that can be easier replace with other weapon choices.

Minor Artifacts Weapons (no artifact tags)
My personal favor relayer weapon choices. A lot of good choices to pick from and all easy to get.

1. Captain Quacklebush’s Cutlass
--a. Pro: 5 Dexterity to start (saving you 20 spending points)
--b. Pro: 50% DI
--c. Pro: 20% SSI
--d. Pro: 10% HCI
--e. Pro: Bleed Attack special. This only help when it comes to leveling the weapon. I personally like Bleed Attack to kill of mobs that run away. Helpful when Im fighting multiple mobs.
--f. Pro: another great choice for your first relayer (one of my personal favor)
--g. Con: its weapon damage base is only 11-13. Which will make leveling the weapon slow

2. Cold Blood
--a. Pro: Hit Point Increase of 6 (saving you 18 spending points)
--b. Pro: Stamina Increase of 6 (saving you 18 spending points)
--c. Pro: Mana Increase of 6 (saving you 18 spending points)
-------i. Total saving of 54 spending points
--d. Pro: 40% SSI
--e. Pro: Bleed Attack Special, good for killing off runaway mobs
--f. Pro: if you only relayer one weapon, this is one of the top choices to use
--h. Con: if this is your first or only relayer, then you are lacking Damage Increase

3. Cavorting Club
--a. Pro: 8 resist in Fire, Cold, Poison, and Energy (total spending point saving of 160)
--b. Pro: Self Repair 3 (making it a great choice to relayer into an armor piece. Example relayer into a leg armor and never have to worry about repairing again)
--c. Pro: 35% SSI
--d. Pro: 35% DI
--e. Con: low weapon damage base and ineffective weapon special for leveling, making it’s a pain to level. Better off only considering this weapon after you filled your non-armor slots first.

4. Luna Lance
--a. Pro: 5 str (saving you 20 spending points)
--b. Pro: SSI 20%
--c. Pro: DI 35%
--d. Con: I rather pick one of the three above before considering this weapon or a Destroyer instead.


Special Artifacts drops
These artifacts comes from special mob, grave digging, etc

1. Butcher's Resolve
--a. Pro: DI 75%
--b. Pro: SSI 35%
--c. Con: Only two attributes will carry over for relayering
--d. Con: low weapon damage base, making it hard to level up. There are more viable options to pick from in minor artifacts

2. Dread's Revenge
--a. Pro: 50% SSI
--b. Pro: HCI 15%
--c. Pro: Hit Poison area 30%. This does not carry over into a relayer, but its makes leveling the weapon a lot easier (keynote; mobs killed by any Hit Area will not give you weapon experience).
--d. Pro: Weapon damage base is 100% poison. This does not carry over, but it does make fight some mobs a lot easier. So leveling experience may be easier for first timers.
--e. Con: No Damage Increase. This doesnt make a great first choice, since its only two attributes will carry over. But worth considering due to ease of leveling.

3. Holy Hammer Of Exorcism
--a. Pro: DI 50%
--b. Pro: SSI 35%
--c. Pro/Con: Demon Slayer. Pro Demon Slayer, to kill demons faster and could make your leveling experience easier. I am not 100% certain how the Slayer will carry over if its changed to a relayer.
--d. Pro: Weapon special of Armor Ignore. Allows you to kill faster and you can use a shield
--e. Con: Only two attributes will carry over. There are better choices to pick from


Treasure of Tokuno weapons
These are considerable easier to get

1. Demon Forks
--a. Pro: Reflect Damage 10% (since reflect physical damage is capped at 105% total, it usually takes about 7 relayers to hit that cap. Could be less if you use Spirit of the Totem to help)
--b. Pro: Defense Chance Increase 10%: I really like this attributes because casting divine fury will drop your DCI by 25%. So going over the DCI cap is a good thing
--c. Pro: DI 35%
--d. Pro: 10 resist in Fire and Poison (saving you 100 spending points IF you needed those resistance)
--e. Con: there are better choices to pick from. Find a looted weapon instead for resist, more to come on that.

2. Swords of Prosperity
--a. Pro: 200 Luck. That is a huge saving if you are looking to make luck gear. Its either saving you 600 spending points or 200ed
---i. If you plan on having many relayer, starting with the Sword of Prosperity is a great way to go. You can have many stats maxed outs with 4-5 relayers and still have a lot spending points to cover resistance, enchanced potions, etc. The ED saving (if you plan to add max luck to a gear) is unbeatable.
--b. Pro: Faster Casting 1. If you haven’t reach the casting cap of 4, this is a great saving of 50 spending points. Or if you are looking to replace a jewelry piece
--c. Con: only two good attributes. Luck isn’t that important for a first choice relayer (if you only plan on getting one relayer). More like option 2+ relayer.

3. The Destroyer
--a. Pro: Str 6 (saving you 24 spending points)
--b. Pro: HCI 10%
--c. Pro: DI 50%
--d. Pro: Crushing Blow special. Makes for faster killing during weapon leveling
--e. Con: There are options in minor artifact that will give you more spending points saving

4. Wind’s Edge
--a. Pro: Hit Mana Leech 40%. This doesn’t carry over into a relayer pieces, but for a first time weapon leveler, the Mana Leech just makes the journey easier. It’s another great choice for your first relayer options
--b. Pro: SSI 50%
--c. Pro: DCI 10%
--d. Pro: DI 50%
------i. All those attributes makes it truly a great first choice relayer
--e. Con: low weapon damage base.

Darkened Sky
--a. Pro: DI 50%
--b. Pro: SSI 25%
--c. Pro: Crushing Blow special, 50% Cold and Energy damage base, and 60% hit Lightning. All of these makes for an easy weapon level experience.
--d. Con: only two attributes (DI and SSI) will carry over as a re-layer


Looted Weapons
These can be good number 4+ options for relayer. Because typically you are in need of resistance pieces to replace your armor slots.

1. Looted weapon attributes goal of 5x20 resistance
--a. Best way is to find a looted weapon with 4x18 resistance. Then you just add the rest to make it a 5x20 resistance piece.
--b. Reasonable alternatives are looted weapons with 4x14 resistance (this will save you 56 spending points)
--c. 3x18 resistance would be a good third option. It will save you 54 spending points
--d. Con: You will rarely find a 4x18 looted weapon. Best to look at alternative 4x14 instead

2. Looted Weapon attribute goal of Resistance, Luck, and Faster Casting
--a. These type of relayer is best to consider after you got like 4-5 done already. It’s best to see what resistance you are lacking and aim to finding a piece with it.
------i. Example; you need 20 fire resistance to counter Necor forms; so you are looking for a looted weapon with 12, 14, or 18 Fire resistance.
-----------1. You are also looking for any Luck or Faster Caster to replace the armor or jewelry slot that you will be using in its place.
-----------2. Other attributes you might find are HCI and DCI. If you find a looted weapon with all those features, that’s a huge spending point saving.

Miscellaneous Relayer Items
These are items that you might want to consider relayer because of its crazy bonus.

1. Omni Magis Spellbook
--a. Pro: it allows you to cast all Druid Spells
--b. Pro: 100% Lower reagent Cost. Never worry about regs again
--c. Pro: Faster Casting 2 and Faster Cast recovery 3 (that’s saving you 115 spending points)
--d. Pro: Intelligence Bonus of 15 and Mana Increase 15. That’s a lot of Mana
--e. Pro: Lower Mana Cost 20%. The cap is 40%, so you are half way there
--f. Pro: Spell Damage increase 20% and Mana Regeneration 6.
--g. Pro: 200 Luck
--h. Con: cost you 600ed to buy. That’s costly

2. Spirit of the Totem
--a. Pro: 20 str which will give you 30 HP. Only the Titan’s Hammer can give you that much HP. Additionally, the str bonus will increase your weapon damage base by 1 atleast
--b. Pro: 20 Physical Resist. Great for countering protection spell penalty
--c. Pro: Reflect Physical Damage 15%, helps you get to your 105% RPD cap
--d. Pro: HCI 15%
--e. Pro: since it doesn’t have any Durability counter, when you relayer it into an armor piece, no more repairing
--f. If you already have 3-5 relayers done, SoT is a great way to max out your hit point. (some consider the "poor man" titan relayer)
--g. Con: You wont get any Spell Damage Increase or be able to add any other attributes to it.

Special Notes:

Swing Speed Increase bonus can be disregarded entirely if you achieve 240 stamina. For 240 Stamina you will need a base of 150 Dexterity, Jackal’s Collar (15 dex), Batwing (10 dex), Gloves of the Pugilist (8 dex), 24 dex from 3 jewelry pieces, Hunter’s Headdress (8 dex), Arms of Tactical Excellence (5 dex), and atleast two other relayer pieces to get over 240 (252) Stamina. *per Devlin and +Colibri post see http://www.uoex.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5458

Momentum Strike for those that have Bushido. Momentum Strike allows you to hit multiple mobs at a time and kill faster.

Wraith Form for those that have Necromancy. Wraith Form gives your weapon mana leeching ability. If you like to spam specials while leveling, Wraith Form will keep you happy.

Add those two combo of Momentum Strike and Wraith Form makes any weapon worth leveling. Despites its weapon base and specials

Please feel free to add your own weapon choices and I’ll try to add it as one post.

[Dragor The Fisher]

Very nice information would like to see your thoughts on best basic builds for these weapons as well. Should submit to the Wiki.

Thanks

[anarchy]

the problem is with omni is that it has to be equipted for you to get the bonus. so the best way to handle that is to re layer it to something. 500 eds more. so the omni really comes out to about 1100 eds. . sometimes dci is good. sometimes not. sometimes it's fun (umbris elites) to reflect as much damage back as you can against them. that's if you can survive.

personally ssi is useless after let's say 250 stamina. divine fury will replenish stamina making you hit faster. you swing at 1.25 per sec when you hit 200 stamina. a gm can test this out, but i did test this. so a lot of weapons now would be considered useless.

useless weapons to re layer:
butcher's resolve
bezerker's maul (75% ssi see above, di cap is 100 bone crush has 75
captain quacklebush (dex is easy. a lot of my re layers aren't even at 100 and i have all the normal stats maxed out)
cold blood (see stats maxed out above)

weapons to level:
titan hammer (30 hps bonus only reason)
Bone crusher (10 str or 15 extra hps plus the 8 = 23 hps 7 hps less than a titan)
cavorting club (for resist only. but i don't like to keep resist on just 1 weapon i like to spread that out in case of replacement)


most important things to get when re layering
8 hps bonus
8 str bonus
8 dex bonus
8 intel bonus
8 mana bonus
8 stamina bonus
reflect physical damage
hci (cap is 45 get 70)
dci (cap is 45 get 70)
resist equal 70
spell damage increase (no cap vs mobs)
enhance pots (yes enhance pots is awesome)
max regen hps
max regen mps
max regen stamina

stat adjustments comes out to about 202 sp
then i would max out RPD puts you at 285
the rest would go into either A) hci B)dci c)sdi
maxing out sdi 20 would bring your points to 311. sdi not only deals with casting spells but also hit weapon spells.
finally you have 184 points to play with.
now if you used deeds on your weapon you'll get 5 points per +10 level deed you use extra. that's 50 points extra if you use 10-+10 level deeds.

good luck i'll proly write more cause i'm on a plane right now. laggy too

[Larsa]

I started with a cavorting club and it is true... a real pain to level from 0 to 100. This was my first relayer and used it primarily for the resists. One word of advice... if you plan to relayer a couple of SOT's there is no need to add Physical Resist = 20. Allocated those points to other buffs instead. I do not regret doing it... it was an awesome experience but definitely not doing it again.

My second relayer was the butcher resolve... same as the cavorting.... a big pain to level. Oh well! I guess I get some kind of sick satisfaction leveling low damage weps. I maxed all character stats, added RPD, SDI, and still have lots of room to add more buffs which I left open for furture use. Why I chose the butcher? Because it was the opposite to the Berserker's Maul, the maul has 75 SSI and the Butcher has 75 DI and does not require 200 ED's to remove artie tag. With the maul I guess it would have taken me less time to level than the butcher.

Titan's are great...but good luck if I ever get one. Therefore my alternative is the bone crusher. Different between both is just 5 STR. I know I know... if you have 5 titans over the 5 crusher you have +25 STR difference there, but I am not that lucky to get a Titan yet. Another alternative I have thought to add to my gear is 2 more SOT's besides my head piece, that will add 40+ STR.

Summary: my gear will comprise mostly of SOT's and Bone Crusher. I will consider using the Swords of Prosperity for the jewelry slots for the Luck and FC. 3 Bone Crusher for 3 Swords of Prosperity is a loss of 6 STR which I can accept, but I will gain 600 Luck and FC 3. I have also consider using a Berserker's Maul for the SSI 75% but as I stand right now I am at 70% and got close to 250 Stamina I doubt I will be swinging slowly and it's fixable with casting Divine Fury.

Kenekeo has done a great job outlining the major weps that most ppl will use as relayers and the beauty of it is that there are many different type of combinations. I think that there is no right or wrong it's all depending of what you like or afford at the time.

[Shotta]

Very nice post. If it was gravy, I'd sop it up with biscuits

That being said, I am confused a bit by this:

hci (cap is 45 get 70)
dci (cap is 45 get 70)

Any feedback on why to raise these +25% cap would be much appreciated.

[anarchy]

purely pvp purpose's only. if you get hit by hit lower defense/attack.

don't know if there are any monsters that have this ability. but if you over shoot by 25% you'll be safe at always being at the cap. good luck. have to get back to convention. much lub.

[Shotta]

Ah. I figured it was something like that. Thanks

[jsoncoolguy]

I believe the best first re-layer is the Darkened SKy. Some might say, 'well this wep has more of this or this wep has that" But here is the reasons.
1) Main reason- super cheap and easy to level. cost around 100k or they can collect tok minors and get it free.
2) It has 50 damage increase.- just need 2 weps to max total di for gear .
3) has 60 lightning, which translates to easier and faster leveling for a new player.
4) 25 ssi- its a good amount to start with and dont need alot at first.
5) Has Crushing blow- again translates to easier and faster kills for a new player.
6) has 16-18 base damage. higher than most weps- translates to easier and faster kills again.

So to sum it up, it may not start with the most points, but is much faster and cheaper than almost any wep ive seen listed. Remember, new players dont have all the uber gear that some of us do,or the ed's to remove arty tags., so every little bit helps for the first relayer. Also it will take practice and alot of time to learn how to level a wep quickly and effeciently. After level 64 it will have all character stats and reflect physical and 20sdi, so rest can be used for dci/hci, or whatever they want. It turns into a nice relayer. Thats just my 2 cents.

[Kenekeo]

Thank you all for your reply and input. I added most of your comments into the first post. I left the weapon build structure alone, since it’s varies from player-to-player’s needs. However, it does showcase a good point.
Do you need to level your weapon to 100 before re-layering???
As many of you have commented, it’s not necessary. In order to help you gauge that value, I thought adding a resource cost expenditure would be useful.

Weapon Level Resource Expenditures

Time spent trying to level a weapon
Set: Level 100 weapon is only achieved by earning 999,900 experiences
If your rate of experiences earned per hour is 15,000
Then it will take you 66.7 hours of spawn killing
--If you only spend 1 hour a day leveling the weapon, than that is 67 days to complete your weapon
--Key note, if you are collecting gold as you level your weapon, then expect to earn 25,000 gold per hour as well.
-----When you are done, you have earned 1,666,500 gold

In Game Gold
If you plan on earning in game gold to level your weapon, let’s assume the following;
Currency exchange rate of 1 Excelsior dollar costs 50,000 gold; then you will need to earn 50million gold to buy ten Weapon Level Deeds

Excelsior Dollar
If you donate to earn Excelsior Dollars, let’s assume the following
Euro Dollar currency exchange of 10EU for 100ED. Then you will need to donate 100EU to buy the ten Weapon Level Deeds.
--Personal factor, how long does it take you to earn 100EU to spend on donations.

Key Note:
You still need 500ED in order to re-layer your newly developed weapon. How you earn that cost is up to you.

[Devlin]

One of the most important things you can look at when considering a weapon is the "base points". Basically add up all of the stats on the weapon like you were planning to add them to the weapon anyway. A 4x46 (LL/SL/ML/HLD, all 3x) would have 552 points on it (4x46x3 = 552). This is a fairly easy method of comparing weapons to each other.

Example: The Winds Edge, Berserkers Maul and Cavorting Club. The Winds Edge has 550 points, the Maul 600 and the Club a mere 440. However, each still has a downside to it; the fans are awful to level (as fans still), the Maul has an Arty tag and the club is even worse to level than the fan.
Note: The Winds Edge has 550 points on it, including Mana Leech (400 from DI/SSI, 30 from DCI, 120 from ML). This idea is not for everyone, but it works decently; wep type change a winds edge into a yumi. The ML means you can spam armor pierce all day long and the range means you will level the thing like a beast. If you were going to level a 'zerkers maul, you may as well do the winds edge; you sacrifice a little bit of SSI (which isn't the end of the world, you only need 50% to be happy) for leveling the weapon twice as fast.

To answer the HCI/DCI cap question. The cap is 45%, yes, but there are some affecting factors which you need to cover. First off, Divine Fury will lower your DCI by 20%. This does not stack, to my knowledge. Therefore, you need 65% DCI to effectively cap it. Also, HLD/HLA both lower DCI/HCI by 25%. I'm not sure how many monsters actually use these skills (there have been some event areas with monsters carrying weapons with HLD/HLA on them), but it may be worthwhile to consider. So really, you need 70% HCI and 90% DCI to be capped, but 45% HCI and 65% DCI are more than okay.

My two cents on relayer choices; Bone Crushers = 200 ED for 3 HP. Enough said. Cavorting club? I'd rather level a store bought dagger. Even if it wasn't a club, it still has one of the worst amount of base points on any weapon. Darkened Sky? Eh. Maybe a third or fourth relayer, once you're bored and dont care too much for stats, but for a first one, you can do better. Butchers resolve? See the cavorting club.

Honestly, I'm a huge proponent of Swords of Prosperity. They don't hit for too much, but they do have Double Strike as an ability. They also have 200 Luck on them, as well as 1 FC, which totals 650 base points, higher than most artifacts/other non-looted weapons. And, you effectively save 200 ED by not having to add luck to the item, so its like the relayer only costs you 300 ED.

Nice little guide overall, if Mchale doesn't get around to it before me, I'll toss this up on the wiki for all to see.

[Kenekeo]

*bump*

Once we can confirm the SSI and stamina affect caps, I'll update that. But for now, I'll stick with 250 stamina is enough and makes any SSI un-need. I'll also remove the SSI in looted weapon. maybe replace with Luck.

Added: Dread's Revenge, Holy Hammer of Excor, Momentum strike and Wraith form to the first post

[Dramoor]

I also like the Dread's Revenge For leveling ontop of those
Has No DI But does have
Hit Chance Increase of 15% (higher then wind's edge DCI)
Hit Poison Area 30% (good for while leveling around multiple mobs)
And Swing Speed on it is 50%

Overall If you dont need the DI and still need a ton of Swing speed on you.
This could be a better alternative to the Wind's Edge, They level about the same
But I did notice that I did not need to repair the Kryss as much as the Fans,
And I could Equip a shield

[Melkor]

One thing worth noting is that if you relayer a regular weapon, the relayer will take the name of the weapon. But if you relayer a looted weapon, the relayer takes the name of the sample. Example, Butchers Resolve relayered to robe, robe is now called "Butchers Resolve". But relayer a looted sceptre into a robe, robe is now called "Robe" This can save you 50 ED to rename an item.

+1 to relayering Swords of Prosperity, you have to deal with the name factor, but you get the 200 luck which is a real steal. Plus its got SC on it for ease of levelling, and FC1 if you need it.

[MKaros]

Basically as Devlin pointed out, min/maxing relayers is all about the point total of the item when you've gotten it to 100. The greater its final point total, the more valuable the item is. The rarest relayers in the game are those that have hundreds of points of relevant stats on them when they spawn, because those end up being the highest point items in the game.

There are some stats on relayers I wouldn't include in my calculations for an item's total point value. For example, I wouldn't include any weapon hits or leeches in my point total unless the item is actually a weapon, because as soon as you relayer that item and begin wearing it, all of those weapon abilities are worth zero (a weapon relayered into a shirt with 60% mana leech does not raise your mana leech - only what's on your weapon is factored in). Likewise, even though Damage Increase does remain active once relayered, you'll be so far over the 100% cap after a few good relayers that its value may also be zero.

Along these lines, whenever I see someone advertising a "4x58" weapon and the thing has DI on it, I'd interpret that as a 3x58 because unless you intend never to get a few relayers, DI is on everything, and it caps out early in your character's gear progression, so it's worthless.

I also wouldn't include Luck for purposes of determining an item's point total because Luck is not something you would ever spend points on - its point value is also zero as a result of your being able to add luck deeds which don't cost any points from the weapon to add. Where you can spend gold in place of item points, you should - gold is unlimited and points you can spend are very limited - a max of 550 per item.

By the way, I'm pretty sure the max is actually 525. I used 6 deeds on a weapon recently and only got 25 extra points as far as I can tell, but maybe someone could show us an item that disproves my theory. Any non-looted item would do. Post here if you've got one you used more than 5 deeds on.

So, aside from Titan Hammers, which you sacrifice total points on for higher HP (which is incredibly worthwhile, without a doubt) if you're looking for amazing relayers or to assess the value of a relayer, exclude weapon hits, Luck, and Damage Increase and take a good look at the benefit you're actually getting from your item.

[anarchy]

that's why cavorting club is worth more. resist all at 8 (5 points per a total of 200 points starting 8 x 5 x 5), i don't have one, but if i needed resist that would be made into a character stats/resist/rpd/regens/possible sdi.