Lets discuss bows... mathematically!

[fingers]

Hail all, here is how this idea came to me. I have used the same yumi over 3 years now. It's obviously capped at level 100 and the way i spreaded points on it makes me very happy. Nevertheless, whatever I kill will not make it level further. Therefore I figured it was time for some new challenge and I annonced that I was selling it for 500 eds. The answers I got have surprised me quite a bit. According to the few players who commented, my bow is not worth that much, my points are badly distibuted, etc...

I think two things are possible here: either I created a bond with that bow wich makes me consider it better than it is or the players who commented are not knowledgable about what makes a good bow.

First as far as my knowledge of bows goes, I have been using archery since the first day I played UO. I used to be in very competitive pvp guilds on EA servers. I have way over 2000 murder counts with my archer characters:





Because 90% of the players I killed did not report me as a murderer (they know red pkers take pride in their murder count), it is safe to say that I killed alot more than that.

Anyway, this is just to say I have a little bit of knowledge in archery, but it doesn't really apply here because I actually came on UOEX because I was bored and no more motivated to kill other players and my character here is 100% built over pvm.

Players who have hunted with me know that I almost exclusively use my bow (my imp dogs usually stay in my backpack and my bios in stable.

Also, because of my personal rl situation (wich I would prefer not to discuss here), I have never been able to donate to the shard. So it's pretty safe to say that almost all of my belonging come from me killing stuff with that bow... Relayered ultimate spellbook, relayered titan hammer, relayered butchers resolve, relayered '58 intensitiy looted weapon, 6th follower, 3 rd house + house attachement, mage inquisitors boots, arms, gloves tunic, several item appearance change, huge bag of holding. That bow brought me way over 5000 Eds...

So yes, I thought 500 Eds was a rip off, but not to the buyer :/

So here is what I thought would be cool to do. I am going to place the ss of the stats of my bow here and we can exchange our views on what is good or not about it. For example, one might first say: "it does'nt have life leech, I always get weapons with life leech as it keeps me alive"... Wich could open a good discussion about the actual hit point that life 60% life leech gives as compared to, perhaps the hit points that vampiric embrace give... and so on (lower attack lower d etc.). Granted that I saw a thread about what makes a Yumi good, I beleive this exercise could give even more knowledge to us as what is important to add when leveling a Yumi or any other weapon for this matter...

Here is the bow :

[Elyril]

Ok, my thoughts on the matter. Granted i dont have a level 100 weapon... im working on mine now, But i figured i would add my input

-Damage increase is fine... its crafted except
-Dex, i wouldnt have added, Im more planning on capping dex via gear and relayers, so my weapon can be free of it. Which opens up another 32 points elsewhere
-Fire ball is good
-Lightning is a little low, i would have added more to it
-HLA HLD are good
-HML is a must, as im sure most people using yumis know
-HSL i personally dont use this because i spam divine fury, but i could see this as legit
-HPI, SPI, as i dont believe these have a cap, are both good on a weapon
-HpR, SpR These do cap, so i would probably have worked on adding these to a relayer, to keep the points free on weapon
-Int i probably wouldnt have added, with goc or relayers you can get it pretty high without it being present on a weapon
-RPD same thing with this one, i would add it to a relayer not my weapon, to open more points for hits.
-Spell channeling - not much to say about this... im assuming it was a deed, so its a plus
-SDI is kinda low. i also dont believe this has a cap, so more is better.
-SSI i try to stay away from, granted i dont know your gear, but its pretty easy to cap with relayers and the massive ssi bonus some arti weapons get

In short, its a very good weapon, and i dont doubt in any way that it pulled off everything you said. It just seems like it is more customized to you, and it would be relativly hard placing it into an already built or being worked on gear set. While someone with no relayers or level 100 weapons could find this a very nice bow, they might not be willing to spend so much on it. If the points spent on regens, base stats, SSI, and SDI were instead invested in hit lightning and hit harm i think it would be more enticing, but once again, im not the expert on it either, im still working on leveling my stuff.

[anarchy]

this is my option only.

it's a crafted item but it is at level 100. i believe any level 100 crafted should start at about 200 eds starting, but it does have blessed on it, which should bump it up to another 21 eds (1 mill/47k) new price 221eds. for a bow to be really effective you really need mana leech on it (to replenish your ability to shoot armor piercing), which your at 60%. i would suggest an extra mil for that alone (another 21 eds). now your at 242 eds for this bow. it does have the max amount of stat adjustments (imo isn't really necessary unless it str, hp, & dex *optional depending on other gear*). For regen modifiers see +V's regen chart anything less than 5 is a waste. imo any abilities that are less than 33% is a waste for example the hit lighting 2% really hurts this bow. now i've always believed some is better than none, but if it takes away from the possibilities of another ability to hit then yes it does hurt. i would subtract a mil per wasted point so 2 mil wasted there back down to 200eds. hit lower attack, and hit lower defense is a must for a bow because it allows you to increase your hit chance. i'd proly add 2 mil for those two alone back up to 242 eds. stamina leech is not really necessary due to dive fury but it's nice to have it. i'd add 1 mil for that stat alone up to 263 eds. intel bonus again some is a better than none but could have used that point in something else (also GoC items give massive amounts of mana)- no neg modifier for that. reflect physical damage is nice but not on a weapon unless it completes your max amount (this ability is solely up to the user depending on his/her gear). spell damage increase 1% another wasted point would subtract 1 mil for this down to 242 eds.

so i would at the most charge maybe 250 eds for this bow no less than 225 eds. but remember a weapon should complement your gear not the other way around.

this is a main problem with crafted items you don't get nearly enough points to distribute comparable to looted weapon. next we have to examine supply vs demand. for example if there is a lot of looted items out there why would i buy your bow when i can buy a looted item from joe shmo and for the same amount of your bow change it into the same type weapon. crafted items are really hurting on this shard. too bad there wasn't a way to make a deed to turn it into a looted item, or revamp it so that crafted items could have instead of 295 points could have 395 points 100 points less than a looted item. would balance it a little bit better.


this next statement is not suppose to put you down in anyway, but i'm trying to figure out your logic.

So it's pretty safe to say that almost all of my belonging come from me killing stuff with that bow... Relayered ultimate spellbook, relayered titan hammer, relayered butchers resolve, relayered '58 intensitiy looted weapon, 6th follower, 3 rd house + house attachement, mage inquisitors boots, arms, gloves tunic, several item appearance change, huge bag of holding. That bow brought me way over 5000 Eds...

before they changed the goc waiting i have made a good 10-20 goc's and sold them for 6 mil each with 5 non maxed imprisoned pets *all at 400 hps*. yes they've made me a good 60 mil but that doesn't mean i'd sell each of them for 12 mil right?

[fingers]

this is my option only.


so i would at the most charge maybe 250 eds for this bow no less than 225 eds. but remember a weapon should complement your gear not the other way around.

Errrm *spell chanelling deed?

[anarchy]

ah i didn't know if that was part of crafted item or deed. add another 100 eds to price.

[fingers]

sc and no minus are two properties, it already came with max properties as far as crafted items go. As for comparing it with a good 5X58 looted wepon, well the weapon non modified (no sc no weapon type change, no bless) would already cost more than this if the 5 mods are the good ones (hlm, hfireball or lightning, lowerd, lower attack, and either hsl or hll)

I like to fight stuff toe to toe with my bow, the stamina leech is good because divine fury gives a hit at your defence chance. Life leech is neglectable when compared to the life leeched in vamp form.

[anarchy]

ah it came with the crafted. hm.. lol see peeps i'm really bad at prices this goes to show it. i'd proly still sell it for no more than 350 eds. ah well.

[fingers]

Yah well 350-400 sounds absolutely reasonable, but the feedback i had before was more like "this bow is scrap", it's worth nothing, 500 eds, what a joke (yes yes, some throwed a fat "hahahahhaa!"). Thoses are the same that come to show me "a real good bow" (50 lightning and 50 fireball but with no lower defence). I mean, a tuffer foe like lady mel or such, you will wiff maybe 30% more without lower d. My armor peirce doing around 200 every time i hit compared to that 25 fireball or lightning that i lose, in 10 shots, the 50/50 that wiffs 3X out of 10 (as an example) is 600 hit points short from my direct hits while i am short 85 hits (50% of the 7 shots landing at 25 damage) from not having double spell damage...

For the dex and str and other stat boost, what needs to be said is that i did not always have 4 relayers and most dont as well. It comes in handy. Also the hit lower attack, because I like to fight toe to toe, well it's also very good, most of the times balrons dont touch me...

[Elyril]

Yea, i understand why the bow has the stats such as str and the regens. All im saying is it brings the price down because the bow is split half and half between being a stat relayer and a weapon. Like, if you level it yourself thats one thing, add what you need. Just trying to sell a weapon that has those stats on it to compliment your earlier suit will effect the price and market... I definitly wouldnt say the bow is absolute crap though. Its a good 100, it just has a few choices i personally, wouldnt have added... thats all im saying.

[fingers]

True that any leveled weapon is character dependant and further more, style dependant. The dex for me brings me at a square 220 dex. This wouldnt be viable in a pvp environment (curse, disarm), but the way it's balanced, for me, and possibly for most players, its pretty much the best. My taget is constantly "lower defenced", I can chain specials indefinitly, gives me that much strenght, dex and hp additionnal and I swing at max speed, at 47% combined, my hit fireball and lightning still goes off often

[Elyril]

Oh about your comment about not donating, and having real life issues preventing it... dont worry about donating, i dont think it will hurt anyones feelings... plus i think anarchy alone donates enough to keep server running =P

[anarchy]

not meaning to hijack this but i really don't donate all that much anymore since the change from usd's to euros. ok back to the bow.

i love hit lower defense and hit lower attack. but are useful when dealing with mobs. i can believe you hit more times than most peeps without it. maybe even up to 5 times more successful. i'd say 350 eds would be a good price of the bow, but then again like i've said before. i am so terrible at pricing things walmart comes to me to rip me off.