Nyx likes to jail people for reporting bugs.

[Stormbringer]

LOL... didn't know you had a webcam Nyx hahahaha...

[+Nyx]

Stormbringer, rofl.

Can we please stop giving these posts the time of day? I mean come on, at the end of the day at some point every one will feel slighted in some way. Lets just face the facts:
1. We are playing on a free shard, so if you have a problem with the service then well you get exactly what you pay for (no donations do not count). If you doubt me on this drive down a toll road anywhere.
2. +N and +V have put time and effort into replying to this thread rather than enhancing the quality of Excelsior through holding event, addressing problems, making new content, etc....
3. When I first started replies to these sort of threads only gave me pause as they lent them legitimacy. I obviously realized that like all groups of people there will be a few that like to complain, and they will always be the most vocal.

So I guess in closing if you feel like you must reply only state policy, be firm, and do not elaborate. I think this will attract a better sort of player in the end, one that has no interest in the drama that is portrayed each time one of these threads pops up.

As always opinions are like... well you know, so take it or leave it... ~Dander

There's a reason we leave these threads and address them. Previously the standing policy was to move these threads into the private staff forum as 'evidence' and let that be the end of it. But it was never, ever, ever the end of it. The troll would post more threads, armed with "they moved my thread because it stated the truth about ______! I know the truth! They're hiding it! It's a conspiracy!!" and so on and so forth until we wanted to pluck our eyes out with spoons. It caused a lot more mistrust of the staff since it lent legitimacy to their complaints in the eyes of those who tend toward such things. It became a neverending battle of frustration. V and I considered quitting. Then, we talked it over with Colibri and it was decided that if somebody went to the forums, they could have their say (within reason) and then the thread would be locked after 1-2 days. It gave everyone in the community full transparency on what was said, and in every case has shown that the complainer was being irrational, crazy, etc. It also helps y'all understand just how much bull malarkey we have to shovel to get anything done around here.

Anyway, this thread will get locked within 24 hours since it wasn't even a very creative trolling this time. Was hardly even good for the few laughs we managed to eke out of it.

[Dander Sluth]

+Nyx, Thanks for the reply. I fully understand your prospective, well at least as much as one can without being a staffer. I hope my attempt at trying to lend a bit of the 'never spoken' outside looking in prospective is helpful. After all at the end of the day I am not volunteering for your position, so whatever makes you want to keep doing a job for free more power to you!

And thanks!
~Dander

[+Nyx]

[louis077]

So Xarleigh and I both are guildies with him. After seeing the global chat remarks I did advise him to page you so you could deal with it at another time. While he was being a bit harsh the other night with his comments. I don't really know if jail is justified for just being rude to an admin. Why not just ignore the page? I'm not taking sides here as I haven't been in either position.

The whole role of an admin is to better the shard and see that it runs smoothly. Someone verbally abusing an admin doesn't really harm the shard. Is it annoying? Absolutely. But I don't see how it is detrimental to anything that affects the other players. Acknowledging his taunts and jailing him seems like you are almost giving into it. I'm sure your guys job is extremely difficult but as always I would try to leave emotions out of it.

My 2 cents.

[Gaara]

So Xarleigh and I both are guildies with him. After seeing the global chat remarks I did advise him to page you so you could deal with it at another time. While he was being a bit harsh the other night with his comments. I don't really know if jail is justified for just being rude to an admin. Why not just ignore the page? I'm not taking sides here as I haven't been in either position.

The whole role of an admin is to better the shard and see that it runs smoothly. Someone verbally abusing an admin doesn't really harm the shard. Is it annoying? Absolutely. But I don't see how it is detrimental to anything that affects the other players. Acknowledging his taunts and jailing him seems like you are almost giving into it. I'm sure your guys job is extremely difficult but as always I would try to leave emotions out of it.

My 2 cents.

How i see it verbal abusing a staff member is enough to get a jail sentence. It's said in the codex too

On Topic:
(i just can't get over that picture, it's awesome )

[Unbeliever]

This is an excerpt from world chat from a few days before, just to illustrate the sketchy character of the OP.


Yoda: 100k tokens is something you will get over and over eventually
NAgol: i was thinking i could sell my chest for 5mil
Yoda: and the result weapon will be rather good for ya for a lojng time till you get something better
NAgol: and afford plenty of upgrades
Yoda: stick to your price
Yoda: man thats early to have one of those
Yoda: what the heck and how did you do that
NAgol:
Yoda: giveaway item?
NAgol: no


Yoda: so you made a goc gem?
NAgol: no, i traded for it
Yoda: traded what
NAgol: services rendered
NAgol: i'm being deliberately ambiguous
Yoda: hopefully leveling a weapon or something
Yoda: because that item should be expensive
NAgol: nothing against server rules of course
Yoda: not just given away
NAgol: someone asked a favor of me that took 30 hours so far and i still got more to do


Yoda: ok
Yoda: well then
Yoda: that is acceptable
Yoda: I just get annoyed when someone joins gets in a guild
NAgol: nah, wasn't a guildie
Yoda: then someone says here you are 3 days old have a legacy of the archmaji
NAgol: lol
Yoda: u know what I mean tho
NAgol: true that
Yoda: I wonder if all thats wrong with weapon-svitch-inator is the delays are too short
Yoda: maybe it causes it to mess up and hammer rearmer cause its in a hurry


NAgol: give me 1 mil and i'll give you back 1.3mil end of week
NAgol: and i'll make 250k off of it.. doing nothing
Yoda: ok rearmer working
NAgol: i could probably give you back 1.3mil in 2 days time.
Yoda: now to try the svitch
Yoda: sorry missed that
NAgol: was saying if you gave me 1mil i could give you back 1.3m and i'd make around 300k
NAgol: for doing nothing
Yoda: yeah... I don't loan money
Yoda: hoarder =)
NAgol: i meant hypothetically.
NAgol: not you specifically
NAgol: there are plenty of [exex items that are exploitable

[Yoda]

gotta love how I am basically sorta ignoring 90% of what he is saying in that conversation and focus' on debugging a script.. hehe

[Opopanax]

So Xarleigh and I both are guildies with him. After seeing the global chat remarks I did advise him to page you so you could deal with it at another time. While he was being a bit harsh the other night with his comments. I don't really know if jail is justified for just being rude to an admin. Why not just ignore the page? I'm not taking sides here as I haven't been in either position.

The whole role of an admin is to better the shard and see that it runs smoothly. Someone verbally abusing an admin doesn't really harm the shard. Is it annoying? Absolutely. But I don't see how it is detrimental to anything that affects the other players. Acknowledging his taunts and jailing him seems like you are almost giving into it. I'm sure your guys job is extremely difficult but as always I would try to leave emotions out of it.

My 2 cents.

Not only is it said in the codex about the consequences of being rude to staff, if someone is of the temperament to be like this towards staff, who provide this shard to us free of charge, then that also says something about how they might behave towards other players and admins in future. Past behavior is usually a good indicator of future behavior. A short jail sentence like that tell you that you are in the wrong and this person clearly has over-reacted to this in a big way, threatening the entire shard.

[louis077]

Agreed, but players and admin should be held to the same standard. If he had said the same remarks to another player I doubt he would have been jailed for it.

I'm not condoning his actions now. I'm just trying to reason why he was jailed in the first place.

Codex Rules:
3. Staff: Our ranks are (lowest to highest): Counselor, Game Master, Seer, Administrator.
a. Respect other players and staffmembers at all times.

-----------------------EDIT-----------------------------------------------

Just found out he is on a rampage taking down the wiki. Unacceptable.

People like this look to get a rise out of others by being rude and obnoxious. More or less like a ticking time bomb, best to handle these situations gently.

I'll spend the rest of the day with my foot in my mouth.

[+Veritas]

Yep, the wiki was attacked. The child didn't get his candy bar and consequently threw himself on the floor, kicking and screaming. Model individual there.

So, we were talking about professionalism and rising above situations and whatnot...right?

+V

[+Nyx]

Agreed, but players and admin should be held to the same standard. If he had said the same remarks to another player I doubt he would have been jailed for it.

I'm not condoning his actions now. I'm just trying to reason why he was jailed in the first place.

Codex Rules:
3. Staff: Our ranks are (lowest to highest): Counselor, Game Master, Seer, Administrator.
a. Respect other players and staffmembers at all times.

-----------------------EDIT-----------------------------------------------

Just found out he is on a rampage taking down the wiki. Unacceptable.

People like this look to get a rise out of others by being rude and obnoxious. More or less like a ticking time bomb, best to handle these situations gently.

I'll spend the rest of the day with my foot in my mouth.

Part of the job is identifying players' personality/character and handling their behavior accordingly. If Cornbread said those same words to me, I'd know he was playing around and that'd be the end of it, because he has that sort of dry humor and I have always had a good repartee with him. However, when you're dealing with someone who has already demonstrated shady behavior, a bad attitude toward staff, and a know-it-all/I'm-always-right mentality, then starts talking about someone being a 'typical female' and ignoring absolute facts to make his case seem better ('you only reply to people who say you're cute'), there's no benefit of the doubt, and no gentleness earned on their part. As evidenced by his behavior after the fact. Hateful pages, forum tirade in which he goes completely psycho, and then furthering the insanity by attacking the wiki, which essentially hurts the entire shard when he's mad at 2 people. People like that have to be dealt with firmly, not gently, because they won't be a functioning member of this shard any other way.

Regardless, Colibri found out about the wiki attacks and has banned the player. He's setting the wiki back to staff-approved edits by a small group of trusted players only, which over time will improve the overall quality and reliability of the wiki. Silver lining!

[louis077]

Yes but sadly now there will have to be a clean up crew. This isn't any more work on my part as it will all rely on the staff / vet players.

I'm just trying to make a suggestion on how to deal with these in the future. Another outlook could have been to defuse the situation before it exploded. This might not work on all cases but perhaps some of the minor ones. People like this take stuff extremely personally.

[+Veritas]

Yes but sadly now there will have to be a clean up crew. This isn't any more work on my part as it will all rely on the staff / vet players.

I'm just trying to make a suggestion on how to deal with these in the future. Another outlook could have been to defuse the situation before it exploded. This might not work on all cases but perhaps some of the minor ones. People like this take stuff extremely personally.

Staff always address situations with the intent to defuse a situation before it explodes. However, like you said, people like this take it personally. We have no control over their perception of what happened. If they have a reaction to a measure that is well within the realm of reason, do we react in a more reserved way just because it could end up with what happened today? I can tell you that at least 10 players from the past 5 years have a history here where they were extremely rude to staff and players, and all we did was give warning after warning, 1 hour chat bans, a few hours jail...We even had discussions with them from time to time to try and figure out why they respond the way they do. And you know what all the additional heartache and discussions got us? Prolonged irritation. Rage posting on the forum comes with these people in nearly the same form if we ban them early for threats and disrespect, or later down the road. The only real difference is the length of time we have to deal with it. So, what is the motivating factor for us keeping them here? Should we try to enjoy the pleasure of their company?

I would rather deal with this kind of infantile fallout now, than to suffer a year or more of the same back and forth of intermittently reinforcing the ego of a player who thinks they can treat authority as they see fit.

+V

[louis077]

I would rather deal with this kind of infantile fallout now, than to suffer a year or more of the same back and forth of intermittently reinforcing the ego of a player who thinks they can treat authority as they see fit.
+V

I would encourage you to take a step back for a bit and focus more on treating the players as equals on the shard. People shouldn't be looking to you as "authority" on the shard. It comes across as crude and power hungry. Hopefully everyone is here for the same reason of just having fun.

PS - Think this one is ready for the vault. Great discussion though +V.