Excelsior

Thanks guys for all your hard work and for posting.

I'd still be interested in staff input on exactly how the system works to confirm or deny what we believe.

Well on the Wiki back in January of this year +Nyx did add

Luck does not affect gauntlet artifact drop rates. It is required for making bio pets, and helpful for hunting paragons and minor artifact drops in places like Tokuno

http://www.uoex.net/wiki/Luck

From that page:

The full scope of the effects of Luck are somewhat murky

It would be nice if they make it a little less murky..

This is taken directly from RunUO 1.0's DemonKnight.cs script. Excelsior is on RunUO 1.0:

public static int GetArtifactChance( Mobile boss )
{
if ( !Core.AOS )
return 0;

int luck = LootPack.GetLuckChanceForKiller( boss );
int chance;

if ( boss is DemonKnight )
chance = 1500 + (luck / 5);
else
chance = 750 + (luck / 10);

return chance;
}

As you can see, right out of the box luck does affect artifacts and even more-so on the dark father (demon knight). Now I did some further testing on a personal custom shard and gave myself 10,000 luck and ran through the gauntlet. I got no artifacts through 2 rounds. I then changed my luck to 1,000,000 next and I got 2 artifacts through one single round. I next gave myself 100,000,000 luck and did a round of gauntlet. I got an artifact every boss I killed in one round.

It looks like luck does affect the gauntlet out of the box but based on the amount of luck we can add to our gear on excelsior it still won't make a huge difference (based on this very limited test). The max luck you can add is around 7k or so on uoex? Using the code from above, killing one of the smaller bosses with 7k luck would mean chance = 750 + (7000/10) = 1450. The chance is about the same as killing a dark father with zero luck. Killing a dark father with 7k luck would mean chance = 1500 + (7000/5) = 2900. 7k luck almost doubles the drop rate on dark fathers. Because of the already low drop rate this isn't a huge increase.

It must also be noted that +Colibri may have changed the way the artifacts drop in the gauntlet. I guess only he can answer that.

You have to include this part for that calculation: What this gives you is at zero luck 1500/100000 or 1.5% drop chance for kills on DF. And .75% drop chance kills on the other bosses.

100 luck will increase these odds to 1.52% on DF and .76% on other bosses.

7k luck increases odds to 2.9% on DF and 1.45% on other bosses.

Without any modifications this means that you almost double the chance for an arty at 7k luck. Which comes at a cost of 700k EDs. That's a lot of cost for only doubling the chance

These numbers are not concrete, since the number pulled from the 100000 is random.

Xavian wrote:From that page:

The full scope of the effects of Luck are somewhat murky

It would be nice if they make it a little less murky..

That murky part is from the original page edit. They probably just left it there so more can "Discuss" it.

aaron wrote:This is taken directly from RunUO 1.0's DemonKnight.cs script. Excelsior is on RunUO 1.0:


It looks like luck does affect the gauntlet out of the box but based on the amount of luck we can add to our gear on excelsior it still won't make a huge difference (based on this very limited test). The max luck you can add is around 7k or so on uoex? Using the code from above, killing one of the smaller bosses with 7k luck would mean chance = 750 + (7000/10) = 1450. The chance is about the same as killing a dark father with zero luck. Killing a dark father with 7k luck would mean chance = 1500 + (7000/5) = 2900. 7k luck almost doubles the drop rate on dark fathers. Because of the already low drop rate this isn't a huge increase.

It must also be noted that +Colibri may have changed the way the artifacts drop in the gauntlet. I guess only he can answer that.

With 7600 Luck I have done 40 rounds without stop, to get 0 artifacts. If luck played any part in it, that could not possibly happen. Also have gone with 0-500 Luck and gotten 20 arties on 12 to 13 rounds. He has probably changed the code.

Xavian wrote:What this gives you is at zero luck 1500/100000 or 1.5% drop chance for kills on DF. And .75% drop chance kills on the other bosses.

100 luck will increase these odds to 1.52% on DF and .76% on other bosses.

7k luck increases odds to 2.9% on DF and 1.45% on other bosses.

Without any modifications this means that you almost double the chance for an arty at 7k luck. Which comes at a cost of 700k EDs. That's a lot of cost for only doubling the chance

These numbers are not concrete, since the number pulled from the 100000 is random.

Those numbers are very close to those I quoted in my last post:

Unbeliever wrote:Under the heading "Previous Drop Systems":

[The drop system has gone through two previous iterations. When first introduced, the artifacts simply dropped on the boss corpse. This was long before Corpse Instancing was implemented. So just anyone who got looting rights could grab the artifact. Illegal script looting was a huge concern. Lesser Bosses had a .1% chance of spawning an artifact. The Dark Fathers had about a 1% chance to do so. If the individual or party doing the most damage to the creature is wearing high luck, chances can increase to 1% and 3% respectively.

With all due respect, Dramoor, doing 40 consecutive runs with a non-cumulative 1% /3% chance per run and coming up empty handed would not be impossible even under normal circumstances. But the findings of your extensive testing can't be denied either. What I've come to believe from all this information is that there might be a problem with the way Luck functions currently. I know that it's not uncommon to fix or change something on a UO server and create unintended and unforeseen side effects. If the Luck code was intentionally changed from the RunUO default, I think it would make more sense than it does. I can't believe that high luck being nigh useless during certain hours and nil luck being irrelevant during other hours, both in and out of the Gauntlet, would be intentional.

Unbeliever wrote: With all due respect, Dramoor, doing 40 consecutive runs with a non-cumulative 1% /3% chance per run and coming up empty handed would not be impossible even under normal circumstances. But the findings of your extensive testing can't be denied either. What I've come to believe from all this information is that there might be a problem with the way Luck functions currently. I know that it's not uncommon to fix or change something on a UO server and create unintended and unforeseen side effects. If the Luck code was intentionally changed from the RunUO default, I think it would make more sense than it does. I can't believe that high luck being nigh useless during certain hours and nil luck being irrelevant during other hours, both in and out of the Gauntlet, would be intentional.

Saying it is intentional or not does not change the fact that that is how it is. Maybe it is a bug in the coding, maybe it is how he wants it, or maybe it is not working properly. But it is still there. I have gotten probably 500 to 1000 Gauntlet artifacts in my time here and have found over time ways to improve my gathering. I gave you my examples of what I did and why I can conclude the reasons I have concluded. It is not just the gauntlet effected by it, It is everything.....

Ever notice sometimes farming, travesty keys, sabrix eyes, GoC items like Insanity taffy, Looted Weapons, Paragon Arties, the loot comes in spurts, usually in an hr or 2 hr window, or far less in other windows.

Same goes for turning in bods, You can turn in 40 of the same bod, certain hours u get the same exact item 9 out of 10 times (this doesn't work for for actual gear but actually if you time it right you can literally get the right item every time at the right hour of the day which I am meaning deco item over runic, fort powder over garg pick etc).

This is not from doing one or two tests. These are results from years of testing and then experimenting on the theory and being successful at using it as a basis of what to hunt.

Yeah, I have actually noticed exactly what you're talking about Dramoor. I first noticed it in the Halloween dungeon. There were times when virtually every boss dropped an artifact and other times when it was dry as a bone. I wasn't testing and recording statistics at the time but looking back I'd say the dry times were pretty consistent. Also noticed it with both Travesty keys and drops from Travesty itself. Nothing compared to the monumental amount of testing you've done but my experience parallels your findings.

I was just sharing my thoughts about the whole thing for whatever it's worth, which is probably not much. You're right, to us players the most important fact is how luck is working, not why it's working this way. And thank you - I personally appreciate your insight and contribution to this discussion. I only wish I had more playing time so I could make better use of the information.

The staff aren't going to post any sort of Luck algorithm, but as I've said numerous times before and posted on the wiki - Luck does not noticeably affect gauntlet artifact drops, and it has diminishing returns. It affects bio-making, tokuno artifacts, and paragon drops. It has some very minor (not noticeable) factoring into some other systems, but it's so small it's not really even worth mentioning. The way the randomizer works on our shard, there will be hours/days/weeks where one may see nothing at all, then suddenly see tons of drops for x period of time before it drops back off again.

That's fair enough. Since Tokunos and Paragons aren't really worth much to begin with, there is no use for luck unless you want to into bio-making. So for the majority of the players on the server, luck = extreme waste of ED.

Xavian wrote:So for the majority of the players on the server, luck = extreme waste of ED.

Maybe instead of saying its an extreme waste, revise it slightly saying "luck above 1000 (or whatever the magic number is) will have a negative return on investment".

Because:
- "it has some very minor (not noticeable) factoring into some other systems" which you wouldn't want to miss out on for having 0 luck
- it has diminishing returns
- Paragon arties can sell for 500k+

I think Xavian said it best to be honest.

What I didn't mention in my previous post is that the range of things luck affects will be expanded in both Touria and Elysium, contingent on Coli's attention to our scripting needs