Teleporting in and out of dungeons and Macro Farming

[Brian]

I just want to say to all the folks that have the farming macros to please be a little more considerate. I love this game and I love to actually be present at my computer wile hunting. You probably have no idea how frustrating it is to be hunting a spot and constantly have people with farming macros popping in and out every 3 minutes and fouling up your kills and seriously disrupting your hunting. I have several spots I like to go to hunt but because they are good spots they are also prime targets for macro farming. People pop in and start attacking everything in sight or auto loot kills and claim any corpses that I haven't gotten to yet and then pop out just to repeat the cycle every 5 to 10 min. I have totally given up on Doom and I don't even go to deceit any more. I have been chased out of every good hunting spot on the shard. I have starting hunting in Fel to avoid this problem but Fel doesn't offer the same spots that trammel does.
It would be a real great idea to discontinue any teleportation in or out of dungeons all together but until that happens can't you at least modify your farming macros to just teleport away if it detects another player already hunting there. It would be the least you could do to at least attempt to show a minute bit of respect to those of us that enjoy actually playing the game.

[lestatzero]

I want to take a moment to comment on this...

I had a discussion with +Coli yesterday regarding this same issue.

For everyone who uses Macro/scripting to level items and to farm for specific things plese be aware.
I am quoting from the rules.

6. Behavior, attitude towards other players:
a. If there is more than one player at a spawn, the players must take turns. Once a player kills/tames a monster or takes/steals an item, he or she must go in the back of the line and wait for others to get their turn.

If you recall or Sacred Journey into a spot and another player is there killing things you have to wait your turn in order to kill mobs in that area. Everyone gets a turn .... If you leave then you forfit your position in line... Macroing to kill mobs can lead to you kill stealing... Even though that may not be your intent. I agree with the above mentioned idea... Places like Doom should have a Designated exit portal on the enterance platform and all recall / Sacred journey abilites should be blocked, at least to get in.

Well that's my 2 gp.

Lestat

[Ilsanor]

Well, there was also a discussion some time ago (couple of months actually) and it was ruled that a monster that has not been aggro'd is fair game for everyone (with exceptions of course - peerless etc.) - I do not remember which of the GMs said that, but it was said. This kind of contradicts the "take turns" rule and only Lord British knows which rule takes precedence. It'd be nice if a GM clarified that or modified the codex appropriately.

That caveat aside I agree with the OP, though I never had much direct contact with levelers as I rarely hunt and if I do, I'm in places that are too poor monster wise or inaccessible (Fel?) to be viable for levelling. But from what you have written Brian, I could say that is harassment, clean and pure. So page. And page. And page again. Call me a snitch, but if someone is macro levelling attended (I assume) and doesn't really care that he basically kill steals then that is what he deserves. I get it - be friendly, be understanding and so on but enough is enough.

[Thorgal]

Can we clarify one thing first, how big is an area? How many tiles, cause if i recall to a spot and there are already 3 monster there, i will automaticaly attack them thus taking more then 3/4 of their hp in a fraction of a sec. Also, if someoone runs next to you and the monsters not aggroed to you attack me, is that stealing?

If we go with the ''i was there on the spawn first'' nobody will be able to farm in Doom anymore, 4 people can cover the entire dongeon so the question remains how big is an area?

Let me just add one more thing and then i wont come back to this tread ever! Why should +Colibri change the recall ''problem'', when faced with a problem or something that causes you some frustration, do you go running to higher autorities to make things easier for you or do you try to find a way to work with said problem or get better so the problem isn't one anymore!

[kenarn]

ok here is my 2gp ;/

i personaly feel that if someone takes the time to make and come up with a script that is effective enough to level they should be able to use it. because all that means is they took the intiative to build a script to do something for them. yes it should have limits like recall out if another blue name is spotted. and they should always be at the screen ready to move away if needed.

i know most of you wont like MO because i think it is good that people can do this. but please understand that i do support people who afk level with scripts to be jailed and so on. i just think that it is good that they have taken the time to build something that can make things easier on them.

sincerely -Sobekn

[Cygnus]

Disclaimer - The following remarks by me are not aimed at all scripters, only the ones who show no concern for their fellow Excelsorians.

i personaly feel that if someone takes the time to make and come up with a script that is effective enough to level they should be able to use it. because all that means is they took the intiative to build a script to do something for them.

Just because it took some effort to make a script doesn't give you carte blanch to use it as whim. The issue is respect for other players and it seems to me that the dungeon hoppers who do not have a advanced script that doesn't check for current players on site are showing a total lack of respect for their fellow shard mates in order to level a weapon. I know there are scripts out there that does this so, not to get it or to recreate it means you are only thinking about your own selfish gains and little about anyone else.

I know you also touched on this point so it does not sound like you are one of "those."

yes it should have limits like recall out if another blue name is spotted. and they should always be at the screen ready to move away if needed.

I personally marvel at all of you scripters and wish I could do the same. But having the ability doesnt give you the right to go to the front of the line. "It's all about respect," but alas I feel there are far too many players here with "it's all about me."

As for those who feel ther are no places to hunt besides Doom I couldn't disagree more. I been playing here a long time and Doom was hardly a place I went. Fan Dancers Dojo, Rune Beetle area and the Citadel in Tokuno, The Trogladyte Cave outside of Trinsic are but a few places, not to mention several places that balrons can be found outside of Blood Dungeon just a short ride from a teleporter.

So, if the situation doesnt improve with the inconsiderate script hoppers, then by all means, dump Doom and get out their and make some gold. If oyu need help finding good places to farm, don't hesitate to contact me in game.

[Ilsanor]

Don't get upset Thorgal and don't take it personally. All those situations are very subjective and just because you script level your weapons doesn't mean you're necessarily the bad guy. Like everything else - levelling can be done in a considerate fashion and I assume that it, for the most part, is. The problem are people who actually don't give a damn - whether they find it too much effort to pause the movie they're watching on another screen or pause the xbox game they're playing or perhaps simply feel that they're above that non-script rabble that tends to get in their way. Finding a solution is a difficult task though. Certainly banning recall in Doom will accomplish nothing - levelers will move to different locations, but the problem will persist. Banning script levelling is not a good idea either - there is no 100% sure way to determine whether a person is running a script or not, short of checking system logs by hand. The page report seems to be fair to all parties involved (to some extent - at least it does not create unnecessary group responsibility) though it has the drawback of being slow (since a GM has to get on and review each report) and creating even more workload for the already thinly stretched GM resources. But a similar approach worked in a similar case - the AFK leveling. Each person was checked randomly and soon enough those that did AFK landed in jail or decided to level legit from that point onwards. I would hope that reporting 'abuse' will have a similar result - those that don't do it the right way (ie. our friendly excelsioran way) will get the idea. Or jail time. Whichever suits them.

when faced with a problem or something that causes you some frustration, do you go running to higher authorities to make things easier for you or do you try to find a way to work with said problem or get better so the problem isn't one anymore!

When someone breaks your windows by throwing stones what do you do? Inform the authorities (police probably) or replace the windows over and over just because you want to work with the problem? Like I said above - with some people you can reason. Others just don't care and are oblivious to any plea or argument short of divine (GM) intervention. And sometimes even that is not enough.

Can we clarify one thing first, how big is an area? How many tiles

I'd say 5-8 tiles radius if you want to know my opinion. Basically the range at which monsters aggro.

EDIT for posts in the meantime:

i personaly feel that if someone takes the time to make and come up with a script that is effective enough to level they should be able to use it.

The problem that most people do not even have the technical know how to write such a script. The get it from a friend or a guildmate or wherever else. But as Cygnus said - whatever the way, having a script does not make them in any way better than those who level 'manually'.

[Larsa]

This topic again? There is only two options here... either you live with it or you stop going to doom. This has been debated so many times that I believe a lot of players chose the later option. Including myself I do not go to Doom to level at all cause it is over crowded (most times) and I have experience the 'real' kill steal issue.

Like most people here have suggested, if you are pretty sure that they are afk leveling then by all means report them. If you are fighting something and a nearby mob hasn't aggro you then it's fair game (I know... I do not agree with it either). Taking turn mostly applies for peerless bosses (Lady Mel, Travesty, Slaarion, etc.....).

I mostly level my weps in Trammel and I DO run a attended recall macro to get in and kill stuff. However If I pop in and there is someone already there, I will recall out regarding if some mobs have aggro you or not. Most player I encounter knows that and most vets do the same... it is just plain courtesy. You will run in with people that do not care or half way destroying the whole area that you are already in, they will stop their macro and say 'Oopss sorry, couldn't stop the script in time'

Hopefully you will get used to it cause by the time you start leveling weapons or go for the higher end mobs you will understand the routine. If you are looking for 'prime' gold farming spots there are more places available out there. Good Luck and have fun!

[Riddlebox]

lol get in line brian, people have had issues with this for months.

I used to be in the same boat as you, sick of the scripting, wanted to be 'legit', tired of getting things stolen, yada yada yada. But then I said f it because nothing was being done. The majority of people I talked to about this seemed to have little to no problem with it at all aparently, saying i shouldnt bother staff with such pety matters as a stolen kill or a seemingly afk person, blah blah blah. So if you cant beat em, join em right?
Nowadays atleast a staff member will go around doing afk checks personally, but not often enough to make a difference in my opinion. And I know their time is 'donated', I dont expect them to go around playing cop all day, nor would I want them to, but it is still just a half measure. I still find people that I know to be scripting all the time just stationary in a dungeon because there script messed up and they werent there to restart or fix it. Or people who 'fell asleep' at the keyboard. I have tried paging about these people or these types of situations multiple times, but it always just so happens to be that no staff is on. So i say why bother at that point, nothing gets done.

Honestly I think its only a matter of time before these scripts go even more public and everyone has one.

Edit: Not trying to be 'disrespectful' to the staff or anything, I do know that you guys were doing a great job when you first started the checks. I just noticed a decline in them as time went on, whether that be just you guys being busy, or just me being in my house or whatever not resource gathering, therefore not needing to appear and give a check. Just stating my opinion on past experience. No hard feelings either way.

[Thorgal]

I said i wouldn't visit this topic again but i feel i have to clarify something, if i recall to an occupied spot, i move away if i can in time, and i do apologize, im just tired of the same old rants about levelers and the champs situation! Dont misunderstand what i meant, i did half of my relayers so far manualy, i know the pain, but lets be honest, if you level manualy in Doom, it just means you haven't gone out in the world ennough cause Doom sucks! There are so many better places to level that you are missing out on! The main reason people script level in Doom is because liches dont run away and are grouped, the scripts wont move you, you are stationnary so doom is the best place for those.

And no worries Ils, i didn't take it personaly, im not at fault and dont feel targeted by the topic, im always watching my screen, i pause the script to go to the bathroom or even get a cup of coffee! Like i said, im just tired of the rants, usualy people ranting are those you never see out there exploring or trying new things!

Ok im all done and wont be back on the subject... FOR REAL ^^

[kenarn]

it seems a few people completely missed my point.

Just because it took some effort to make a script doesn't give you carte blanch to use it as whim. The issue is respect for other players and it seems to me that the dungeon hoppers who do not have a advanced script that doesn't check for current players on site are showing a total lack of respect for their fellow shard mates in order to level a weapon. I know there are scripts out there that does this so, not to get it or to recreate it means you are only thinking about your own selfish gains and little about anyone else.

please go back and read my post again. if you read it and actualy pay attention to what i say and not just the fact that i support it; you will find something diffrent. i said i do not support the people who go around afk leveling and do not move away from screen when they pop in on someone else. with this being said i do think it is wrong and disrepectful for that, and i know that not everyone has the ability to script.

and also

But as Cygnus said - whatever the way, having a script does not make them in any way better than those who level 'manually'.

who ever said you were better because you can write a script? no one, atleast on this thread. all because you can write a script does not make you better. it just gives you more options. just like someone leveling manualy and getting 30k exp a hour and someone using a script that only gets 15k exp a hour, but moves away when needed and doesnt afk level nothing is equal nothing is better then the other. if you level manualy it is simple you get more exp, ive tested this on my script on countless occasions. but at the same time if u use ascript you dont have to do it manualy u can sit back and watch it kill and loot. everyone has there own preference on how to do things, in the end is there really that much diffrence when it comes to the person behind the screen on either side. no there isnt. and if you feel there is; then maybe that is your issue, not that some people can write scripts and some cant.

-Sobekn

[dillingham]

[Draconomicon]

[Brian]

Don't have any idea how this thread got stuck on Doom. Doom has very little to do with the original issue.

First off let me say that I am a scripter and I love to do it. I can write a script for just about anything you can imagine and I use a lot of them in game play so I am not cutting on the usefulness of scripts. I was simply saying that at the point where "said scripts" start to affect others and normal (non scripting) game play the script user should be courteous and either adjust the script to alleviate the issue or stop using it.

This thread wasn't started over Doom and it wasn't started over the use of scripting.It wasn't written to get anyone in trouble or stomp my feet because I can't do it myself (Because I can). It was started as a plea to those who are not being responsible with their scripts and courteous to other players. It makes the rest of us look like jerks and when the seldom mistake does happen with a "responsible scripts" being run by a "responsible user" others are a lot more unforgiving and hostile.
I had no intention of starting a big battle and getting script users all defensive. My personal opinion on using scripts is, if you can't take the time to learn the basics of scripting (enough to tweak and adjust troublesome scrips) then you shouldn't be using them at all.... But that's just my personal position on the subject.

As far as doom goes, it doesn't matter if there are other places to go or if doom spawns suck. If someone want's to hunt there they should be able to do so without having to be bothered with irresponsible scripts doing unintended things repeatedly. BUT, Like I said, this thread isn't about WHERE it's taking place. Its's about WHAT is taking place.
Please just try to be courteous and responsible with script running. That's fairly simple. If your script is causing someone problems fix it. It's not the responsibility of regular players to work around our scripts. It's our responsibility to make our script work so as not to annoy other players.

[Audria]

BUT, Like I said, this thread isn't about WHERE it's taking place. Its's about WHAT is taking place.
Please just try to be courteous and responsible with script running. That's fairly simple. If your script is causing someone problems fix it. It's not the responsibility of regular players to work around our scripts. It's our responsibility to make our script work so as not to annoy other players.

I totally agree and appreciate your thoughts on this matter. I've tweaked enough C+ and C# scripts to get myself in trouble and back out again. Not that euo scripts are done in C, but it's the same principle. anyway.. just wanted to say thanks for your post