Economy Crashing

[Asmodean]

Good point Alex.

You selling stuff cheaper doesn't hurt the vets. We not only have the ability to make a lot of gold quickly, but we already have a bunch of stuff. Several of us try to keep prices higher, and people hate us for it, even though it is them it is helping. You need to sell more stuff at cheaper prices to get the same end product. For most people the "end" product is the re-layer deed, which has a constant price. 500ED. It doesn't matter to me if you sell 14 120 power-scrolls or 150 to get your re-layer deed. It is you who has to do that many more champs, or mine that many more ingots, or whatever, to get the same result.

Higher (within reason) prices help you get there quicker. I have 16 ( or 17 i can't remember) re-layers already. I don't need anymore. You do. So keep undercutting everyone, and take longer to reach your goals, getting frustrated along the way because its "so hard to make money!", and all the while blame us vets who try to keep prices reasonable for YOU.

It hurts the new players more because they need to sell more stuff to get to where the vets already are. They seem to think high prices hurt newbies, when its the opposite. Its a very difficult concept to understand for many. I was called a moron by a nameless player when I tried explaining this to them. Perhaps I am.

Higher prices are also in the interest of vets, because most of us value our time. We have come to appreciate how long it takes to get certain things, or the drop rates. IF you walk into travesty and kill him twice in a row and get 2 imprisoned dogs, on your first try, chances are you probably think they drop quite frequently. I challenge you to come talk to me when you've killed another 80 travesties in a row and gotten 0 imprisoned dogs, about how common they are, and why they are worth more than what people charge for them.

[Silent]

So the conclusion is to make a price table from where no one can go lower to make buisness in order to keep the market prices high? because for as long as there are two merchants selling the same goods one will go lower as possible in order to sell them first ... and lets face it there aren't that manydifferent goods ...

[+Nyx]

Every few months we have one of these grouchy posts about the economy and its always pretty much useless. Nothing comes of it - nobody convinces anybody on the "other side" of anything, wisdom gets ignored, butts remain hurt.

All in all, the economy would do just fine if everyone just stopped trying to micromanage it in either direction, and at least then there'd be less meaningless forum drama about it.

Bottom line: Newbs aren't getting messed over, vets aren't tanking the economy. The sky is not falling.

[Asmodean]

Exactly Silent.

Because of unlimited gold, and unlimited resources, there are always people willing to sell for less than the next guy. They see it as 100k is better than 0k. (Which is a valid argument in real life, assuming the cost to produce that good was less than 100k).

In real life, you are taking an actual loss if you sell for less than market value. That doesn't carry over into UO, or other "online" entertainment. Other than the $15 a month, or in this case $0, its just time. And people don't pay themselves for it in game.

[Silent]

but in real life Unfair rivalry gets you in court and you have to pay penalties in order to keep market competition straight if this were to apply to Uo all market would overflow with vendors since you wouldn't be losing money just by keeping a vendor that doesn't sell because if you lower more you dont make profit... It also saddens me deeply to see Nyx attitude in this matter but thats my opinion...

[+Nyx]

It also saddens me deeply to see Nyx attitude in this matter but thats my opinion...

Well, take into account that the staff see, hear, and have access to much much more information than players. Your opinion on the economy is based on what you personally feel it should be and your experiences, but mine is based on the entire picture. So, no, I don't see the need to get worked up over these things on the forum - because I'm watching the free economy on the shard work better than most free shards. There are things the staff have in the works to further support and help with economic issues, but that doesn't mean it's so awful there needs to be QQ about it as often as there is.

[Melkor]

+Nyx is right these threads historically haven't helped anything.

Just for fun though, some things do go down in price. When I started oints were 8-10k each. And before +Colibri started selling ED on the [exex they were going for 60+k each.

Another thing, things always change around here and seem to go in cycles. In 6 months many aspects of the economy will be different, just like many of the players will be different too.

[Fiernocht]

+Nyx, butthurt is such a negative word, perhaps you could use the term Fannytrouble, Bottom Bothered or throwing a tushy tantrum.

[moonsongtx]

hahahaha! "Tushy Tantrum!" That's SO gonna be the new phrase of the day... heck... the week!

[Annachie]

Bottom Bothered sounds like something much worse.
Something hard to spell.

[Mystic]

My take on this thread:

"WAHHHH some things suck on this volunteer-run free server!!!"

"Yeah, we know, we're going to get to them after all the other stuff we're working on, for free"

"WAHHHH some things suck on this volunteer-run free server!!!"

I think most people agree that crafting isn't as good as it could be and the TC situation is a bit of a mess. However, that's such a minor part of the game and there is so much more to do.

Judging new players by whether they know what Mistvale is or what gear you can see on their paperdoll is totally missing the point of UO. This isn't a game you finish. It's a world to explore and, for some people, live in. You can enjoy this game without a single piece of gear, if you want to. And if you don't want to, it doesn't mean everyone else feels the same.

In-game economies are going to suck sometimes. What's important is community.

[Sick P]

Mystic is correct. This server isn't the custom content or the way one makes money. This server is the community of people and it's what makes it the best free server I've ever played.

[Pariah]

For those of you saying economy threads don't help anything, Mistvale was launched (early) and the Destash Raffle was created out of a certain economy thread. However, the person that started that thread did so with suggestions and thoughts to get the ball rolling so the tone was much different. Thus, for those of you questioning why foul language and approach is so important to the community, simply check the disparity in outcomes versus this thread.

Also, two quick things. There are clearly many people who care about the economy. However, we have to be realisitic here. This game is going to be 20 years old soon. The population of players is gentrifying. There will be peaks and valleys, but we all need to accept that this population is declining not growing. We play at Colibri's leisure. The other is that people greatly exaggerate. I did not donate for a single relayer. I got my first one in about 3-4 months. I have a dozen or so now and I'm just over three years on the shard (not counting two one handed weapons). It's NOT easy, but I appreciate that.