everwolf wrote:
5. Let me state that this person has disrupted my gaming time and ruined my enjoyment of the game. I also feel this person earned his punishment. What I saw of this persons over the past few days showed a good lack of judgement or respect for others.
1. I was involved with the convo that got the first warning. I did not think and when coli called us down i apologized for offending anyone.
2. I knew this was a family shard and the rules when i signed up. I however was drinking and forgot myself.
3. I do think an adult channel that is opt in would be a good option for those of us that like to partake of whatever our particular vice is and chat freely. (msn , vent , etc is not always an option)
4. I do not think that the admins of a gaming server should be a substitute as parenting in your absence. If your children are oblivious to the topic of drug use then they are more vulnerable to using them when you are not around. Talk to them about these things.
5. I love this shard and there are very few things i would change. Metal was warned and he pushed till ban where he acted like a child whos been grounded. good riddance
6. I dont think any of the admins handled the situation poorly and they continue to do a bang up job.
Well well well seems the pot has finally boiled over. I personally have never been comfortable with the topic of drugs in gaming chat, HOWEVER, because some of the long term time and favored players are, the topic seems to have cropped up more and more recently.
Being an adult I am capable turning off public chat. Being an adult I would NEVER allow my computer to babysit my children. Being an adult I would also make damned sure my kids knew what drugs were.
I can state unequivocally that the only thing to ruin my game time would be an admin taking a position of favoritism to a player or group of players. It weakens the fabric of this game and makes any accomplishments by the lower order of beings...rather meaningless.
That being said, such favoritism should it happen, takes two forms. One the form of gifts or special favors, and the other an immunity to the gaming rules enforced on others. Things like this being a family shard and drug topics being off limits.
Once that happens or is perceived to have happened then the admins leave the area of administrators and become a "friends club". The shard becomes a no longer viable option for the average gamer.
It's your play pen and you can do as you like with it, however if that perception is fostered of favored players and player immunity to community rules then, you may be lonely except for the special people.
Please note: My statement is about perception. What you really do or think is your deal. However perception is all.
+Rayne wrote:
4. I suggest that if you wish to have a future here on Excelsior that you conduct yourself in a more appropriate manner.
We do not allow discussion of drugs, alcohol, sex, violence, use of profanity and the like.
o rly
might wanna put that in the Rules, because all i read is:
2. Language:
a. Keep chat clean - no cussing, arguing, harrasing, etc. .
b. No racial/religious/national/ethnical slurs are tolerated.
no violence, really ? in a game that consists 95% of killing monsters AND humans, most often in the most spectacular way immaginable....
as a counterview to the 'i come here for the family values' argument:
I came here for the custom content, i only found out MONTHS later that it was an official family shard.
Honestly, if youre letting your kids play an T game and expect it or its audience to be PG (or better) you're deluded, staffs good intentions not withstanding.
as for the topic on drugs: i myself had a FANTASTIC time on drugs, but wouldnt necisarily reccoment it to others.
now was that so shocking?
that said: there are also a lot of down sides to drugs which merit mention as well. (possible addiction, possible social end employment ramnifications, health issues )
theoretical question though: if people are allowed to mention such topics in their guildchat or house, what is to stop your child from joining a guild or entering my house and discussing said topics there.
This whole thing is starting to snowball into a Sarah Palin-style "abstinence works" level debate.
I'm going to go out on a limb here... family shard understood. now for one i do have a child with my wife of 9 years. and like most we want to shelter our child from bad/negative influences. all good parents want their children to be safe happy and sound. but as parents we also understand the world in wich we live. and lets all face it it's a pretty nasty place. now do i or would i let my kid play ultima online? sure.. at her current age of 10? hell no heh. even if i were to let her play would i get totally bent out of shape and go freaking total carebear if she heard a few bad words? not really.. would i get upset if she were exposed to refrences about drugs? not really. why you say? we have spoken with our child and she generally understands whats good and bad. and just to add a note i'm from georgia. yes i'm southern i speak with a really bad southern accent. and i'm kinda doubtful that my kid would be suprised about hearing certain things in-game. she knows right from wrong. knows that drug use is harmful. and ill not lie to everyone and say she has never heard me or her mother speak a few bad words from time to time. lol as old man alewar stated. my daughter has asked me before while playing on a pk'er on atlantic shard daddy why do you like to kill the other people playing the game? is it not wrong to hurt and kill people? and i explain to her that it is only a game and none of it is real. that it's just something us old folks do to have fun ^-0 shes even told me well daddy i dont see the point. to do the same things over and over again. lol god love her she says even mom says you are a putz who plays that game way too much. but she kno's that we play the games we play because in games you can do things that ya cant in real-life. well i know this has been a long post. and just wanted to say that if your'e gonna allow your children to play ultima online in any shape or form don't go ape shit when they are exposed to in-game shenanigans. lmao did i even spell that right? (breaks out the trusty speak and spell) well thats all for now see-you all have fun.
I came on this thread to reply to the many posts that were saying that " a warning should be given". I just wanted to clarify that there was a warning given.
Now, I don't know why people are assuming that the computer is babysitting my kids and things like this, but you simply have no idea what you are talking about. My son plays maybe 3 times a week and I know who he is with, if he isn't with me. It's a family activity here. Ask around, he is generally well behaved and people are suprised to find out his age. Don't assume that you know anything about how I raise my son. I am not in here assuming, and or telling anyone else how to raise their kids, and I haven't asked for anyones advice on how to raise mine.
Since I posted what I originally came in here to do, I have nothing left to say on the subject. Have fun and I hope to seee you all in game soon.
Well for one im telling anyone how to raise their children. but if you play ultima online as a family thing. im gonna say yea maybe ya shouldn't let them play. it's fine and dandy to not want your children to hear about certian things . but if you are going to choose to let them play a game where from time to time theese things are gonna be said. don't go all transformer and turn into the dread lord sir carebear. if it's a family shard fine! teaching your kids it's cool to crack people/monsters animals wtf ever in the heads with sticks/swords ect. don't be suprised when i tell ya in game that you sir are a freaking idiot for doing so. we all know opinions are like assholes everyones got one. thats never gonna change. if you want family values/wholesome experiences for your children go play chutes and ladders/hi-ho cherry o and stuff not freaking ultima online lol. if your kid is under the age of 14 and you let em play uo in my opinion you are wrong. the carebear bus is departing please keep hands and feet inside at all times......
might wanna put that in the Rules, because all i read is:
2. Language:
a. Keep chat clean - no cussing, arguing, harassing, etc. .
b. No racial/religious/national/ethical slurs are tolerated.
Well actually any of the subjects mentioned:
4. I suggest that if you wish to have a future here on Excelsior that you conduct yourself in a more appropriate manner. We do not allow discussion of drugs, alcohol, sex, violence, use of profanity and the like.
+rayen never said please don't take it to private or guild chat, and i believe +Coli even asked it to be taken to private. How many times do we click the mouse button to take down champ, what's another three clicks to start a private chat session. But we will get the keys go to the car drive who knows how far to buy what ever, come on.
Could be construed as harassment, although i do believe in freedom of speech i also believe that it comes with responsibility. freedom with out responsibility tor consequence turns to chaos.
Another point is this is a game i can not remember the last time I walked done my block and took out a arrow from my quiver strung up my hoarselord and took out a mongbat. This game is violent but that is not the violence i think +Rayen was talking about. This is a family shard, F-A-M-I-L-Y shard, what exactly do people think this means. No one on the staff said our kids must play here, heck no one said we need to play here. However we do all for different rezone, becasue its family, for the custom content that fact it is rarely down (this long) for what ever rezone your here you did that all by your self.
My last thought is this, this is +Coli's sandbox we are playing in. Has has invited us all in to play in it. He does it with out geting payed, other than donations. As far as I care they are doing a great job, at keeping this sand box from turning into a litter box. Games are supposed to be entertainment and a escape from the day to day life, follow the rules do as requested and have fun. IT"S A GAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As many of us know, and fewer of us (including staff) are willing to admit, drug abuse and gaming go hand in hand.
For the record. I was not trying to tell anyone how to raise their children. Actually there are to many parents that don't even know what games their kids are playing, so playing the same game on the same shard as them is a step up imo.
I am new here, and so far I like this shard. The community is well-rounded and the people are nice. I avidly read world-chat when I am playing (what else can you do when u are leveling boring skills such as magery, lol). I have never had an occasion to put anyone on ignore or turn off global chat. If someone is typing something idiotic that I dont like, I read it, form an opinion of that person based on their words, and decide whether or not to interact with that person. After that, I simply disregard every word they say. Never has my "enjoyment" of the game been disrupted by someone's offensive chat. They just arent important enough to ruin anything for me.
A few things I have read here cause me concern, not that anyone asked for my opinion, but I will give it anyway, lol. First I will say I was not online during the first part of this whole deal, so Ive formed my opinion based on what Ive read here.
Ive read that this person was banned for something he said in a private message. If this is true, then I believe it is wrong, unless the person receiving the pm was harrassed enough about it to report it. If a GM simply decided, "Hey, that guy was a real jerk in global chat, Im gonna monitor his pms, and toss him in jail if I dont like what I read." This is immature and vindictive behavior and not what I would expect from a GM, who just by position alone demands respect. I believe respect is earned. Furthermore, I believe it wrong to punish only one person if several were involved. This shows favoritism.
From what I can gather, this was not the case, he spoke of things common sense would tell any civilized person should not be spoken of in public, was warned to stop, didnt, and faced the consequences. Evidently the rest involved in the conversation stopped and faced no consequences, beyond a simple, "Dont do that anymore." I was online after this person was back from being banned, and it was a fine display of a temper tantrum. He went on and on and on about how unfair and unjust it all was. Maybe it was and maybe it wasnt, but spending hours complaining about it to people who could not do anything about it was spectacular in its ridiculousness. It was the definition of drama.
This is a family type shard, all global chat should be kept to PG or maybe even G rating, thats what I do anyway. However I respectfully submit that private messages should be just that, private. If we should all keep in mind the children of the shard, then its fair to keep the adults in mind as well, Private Messages would be an alternative to saying questionable things in public and provides an outlet to the baser natured people among us to speak their minds.
I think a separate "adult" chat channel is not necessary. It just seems over the top to me. If its that important, then MSN, Yahoo or some similar medium should not be too much to overcome.
About GM's: I read here that some (by no means all) GM's go on power trips, then I read that is not true. Ive seen what a power-trippy GM can do to shard. GM's are not gods, tho their character may, in fact, be a god/goddess. Read: Their character. Behind that character is a real person, one who has emotions, thoughts, and yes, ego's. Some of them do have power trips, but in my experience, most are helpful and try to provide the best environment possible for as many people as possible.
You can please all of the people some of the time,
Some of the people all of the time, but you can
never please all of the people all of the time.
Its easy for us to forget that behind these pixels we call characters is a real live person. We should all remember this.
Personally I have not met any of the GM's of this shard. I feel that since the shard appears to be well run, then that is due in large part to the GM's/owner of the shard. I reserve my opinion about each of them for when I do meet them. Im sure Ill like them as much as I have most of the other people Ive met on this shard. If I dont, I will find a way to deal with it or move on, those are my options. Every person on this shard (or any shard) have the same options.
Ok I guess I'll jump on ye ole topic wagon and offer my 2 cents worth.
As an expectant father.....
I can say my kids will know right from wrong by my teaching or my wife's teaching not a video game. Granted it we'll at least wait till 6 months before we expect him or her to start reading ok so maybe it'll be a bit before I have to worry about what he or she is reading. And I appreciate wanting to keep it a family friendly server because it keep raging teens away and so does wow
As an individual of the community.....
I find topics being brought into world chat like awww i got so (insert profanity) messed up last weekend or whatever to be not that interesting. If you feel the need to talk about how many brain cells you burned or drank away cool koodos to you and your hangover or cotton mouth bring it to private chat with your buddy or msn chatroom or yahoo chat room with all of them. If some one regardless of who they are asks you to cool it that you are making them uncomfortable, then stop! Whatever happened to just being decent towards other people period? Most uo communities are small, every player lost hurts as whole whether they are a carebear ore anti-carebear.
I like jokes, dirty ones included. I've done a few in chat before.
I like having some drinks, and by some I guess I mean more than just some - and I never mentioned this in Excelsior, for no toher reason other than coincidence.
Cursing does not bother me. In fact, it's a big, expressive part of my vocabulary, and I do enjoy it. And I refrained from it in the public chat cuz the rules said so.
But I do not think in anyway that any of what was mentioned is adequate for children, and I guess would not apreciatte someone doing this in front of my nephew (I have no children of my own) - can't really say, though, cuz he's only 03 months old now.
And those dirty jokes I mentioned before, that was stupid of me doing so in public chat. I meant no disrespect, I just didn't realize children could be exposed to them.
So hey, I'm no carebear, but if I notice there are kids (and elderly senetive people) near by, I try to watch myself - and I rather doing so that wishing for them to leave or get used to my other aspects they do need to be exposed to. I mean, do I really have to be their source of information about some of the nastier aspects of life? Do I have to be their wake up call for the real world? Nah. I'll pass that for sure.
Self control should be used at all times. If you wish to talk about adult and controversial subject matter, you may do so in your own home around your own children (if this is what you believe in). But we will not allow for others to subject the shard to this subject matter. If this view point deems Excelsior "care bear" worthy, then so be it. I will never apologize for protecting the innocence of children, and the rights of parents to deal with sensative material with their children in their own time. Not because someone else decides it is the right time. If you do not feel that you can control yourself, then this is not the place for you. In a perfect world, everyone would exhibit restraint, but in this day and age, we live in a very selfish and lazy society, where vulgarity is forced onto people, willing or unwilling. Excelsior will not participate in this degration of social interaction. We will maintain a standard of civilized excellence and we hope all of you will come along with us.
We appreciate every one of you, and we hope for you to be with us for some time. I believe if some will look at this from a different perspective and cease rebelling against the rules you will have a much more enjoyable time here. The fact is that these rules are very simple to follow. We are not asking anyone to do anything that we do not do ourselves.
+Rayne
[Administrator of Excelsior]
I'll look to like, if looking liking move:
But no more deep will I endart mine eye
Than your consent to give strength to make it fly.
When I decided to take up playing UO again after 3 year hiatus, I perused the Top 100 site to see what non- PVP sites were still out there. I first came across Oblivion which happened to be my last shard and one that I was extremely happy with until they did a shard wipe to get ready to upgrade Mondain's Legacy I think. I started to create an account when my little voice told me to look some more. I did. I came across the advertisemnt for a Family Friendly non-PVP site called Excelsior. I went to the web site, read the Codex, decided to try this one first and, one year and a half later, I am still here. Why do I tell you this? Because, this is probably how the majority of you came to this shard. You saw something you liked, deemed the rules you saw were agreeable and joined. As I see it, Colibri and Rayne has invited the public to play on THEIR shard with THEIR rules and in my not so humble of an opinion have done a masterful job over my time here. If you feel that UO can and should be played the same no matter where you are, I think you are sadly mistaken. If Colibri and Rayne say that all chat should be of the nature that is children friendly and or will not cause controversy, then that is their perogative because after all, it is THEIR shard. If you feel that that doesn't apply to how you play, then we all know ther are many good shards out there, please go try them out. But, if you been here for more than a month, then you must have realized that this place offers something special that others don't. One last thing. I have an 8 year old grandson that plays on this shard from time to time. He is old enough to enjoy the game and really likes to play it. He already is wanting me to create my own shard so he can start building things on it. He will read the chat constantly and asks me several times what are the people talking about. So, as a Grandfather, I ask some of you players that feel that public chat is free grounds to speak your mind on any subject, please speak as though your 8 year old neighbor or son or nephew is sitting right beside you. Thanks and have a wonderful Excelsior day.
I treat this place like it is my playground, and I do what I want. The difference is I know where the line is and have the self control to keep myself out of trouble. I know over time I've exhibited better self control then some of the staff. I've had a staff member talk to me about an incident once in the last year - year 1/2 and that was because the staff member was ill-informed as to the circumstances of what happened.
I have 2 sons, they will turn 9 and 7 in a couple weeks and I wouldn't be caught dead letting them play this game with public chat turned on. As of yet I haven't let them play at all. I also won't let them on Xbox Live with a headset. I've been a gamer for 22 years, I started MMOs when I was 18 and I'm not delusional enough to let my kids into this world and all the things it includes. They've got plenty of growing up to do before they need to be exposed to this.
I am curious why people(this does include staff) act like the codex is carved in stone when from what we've been told it's been incorrect for over a year. If you expect people to follow posted rules, make sure they're the correct rules. What players expect from staff is consistency, when you have a bunch of wishy washy flip flopping is when you get people pissed off. What gets on my nerves is when we get all sorts of things like filters added to make up for a short fall of staff to enforce the rules in the first place.
Before anyone wants to go off about that statement, I have been there, and I have done that. I did it for 2 months, and for the vast majority of my time being around doing stuff I was the only one around to do it. When there was something I couldn't do I advanced it up the chain until they were on to do it. I did it until I no longer had active internet and when I came back I was informed my services were no longer wanted. When you expect 5 people to deal with over 100 and the availabilities all overlap for the same 4-6 hours and the other 18-20 hours are left empty what do you expect?
