Save the shard! Vote for the Zero Tolerance Bill!

[Chroma]

I would love to vote on this poll, but I noticed the choices are worded in a biased manner.

I dont know why i clicked quote..... Umm


Anyways. Part of the reason my family and I dont play the server as much as we used to is that:

1. Rules aren't enforced enough.
2. When they are, you end up finding out you broke 9000 rules and then its a mega punishment. Someone could just say "HEY KNOCK IT OFF!"
3. The employment rate on this server has a high turn-over rate + the ones that are on dont really "Have time" to be helping players. When in my personal opinion if your staff - Players come first. You stop what you are doing and go out of your way to help them, thats my own opinion though. The turn-over rate is annoying though. Hence you dont seem to be able to get used to all the staff. Its always changing.

I may just be being a umm how do we call it? Butthead or something along those lines, but i personally think that a zero tolerance rule would be nice. To a limit though. Cuss words? Come on. If you dont like cuss words then use the filter button in the Options menu. Works like a charm.


Dont delete my post Coli. Im only being honest.

[Jillmuffit]

I would love to vote on this poll, but I noticed the choices are worded in a biased manner.

Why dont we leave the staffing to the STAFF Llexa I mean do you honestly think they havn't considered any of this? And fingers is right about the biased choices

[Llexa]

Actually no i like to show staff when i back them up. kinda sick of people who decide that being a rebel is cool and being a jerk to players and staff is cool. so i go by zero tolerance 100%. And im gonna show them my support for harsher punishment. they have to be sick of all the drama b/c as a player i am sick of it and i dont even have to deal with the background stuff.

Licos, you basically summed it up from the social and psychological stand point and i agree 100++++% (btw dynamite post)
As for the vote being biased, well i really just wanted to have a 'yes i vote for it!' but the thing said i needed at least 2 options, but really its a petition style poll and to show staff support.
This might be a game but some people expect it to be *snap snap* when they want something. i thought they were the staffers and the owners of this free shard, not servants. *scratches head*.

Anyway no point in responding too much b/c there will always be people who want to argue for the sake of argument. so i'll just say i agree with Licos and hope that some changes come around. ive been here for...1074 days and i dont think ive ever seen staff get overwhelmed and upset like they have in the last 3 months or so. used to always be peaceful... *evil glare*

p.s. cast your vote! even if youre just standing up for the shard and nothing happens its worth casting.

love,
Llexa

[edit: ooo yeah about the turnover, sheesh i knew there was something else lol. i would assume that most people are cut out for it or couldnt handle it. i dont wanna speculate though b/c i dont know and none of us do except the staff and its really their business.]

[Harabakc]

Good lord, so far off the mark.

[Chroma]

[edit: ooo yeah about the turnover, sheesh i knew there was something else lol. i would assume that most people are cut out for it or couldnt handle it. i dont wanna speculate though b/c i dont know and none of us do except the staff and its really their business.]

Yeah and i mean. Its nice that they give people a shot, but come on? Obviously people are screwing up hard core. Or some one isn't making being staff worth while. It could be either one though. What they do those is there on business.

[Bubba Ho Tep]

I would love to vote on this poll, but I noticed the choices are worded in a biased manner.

As though as I do agrre with rules being set and follow - even harsher rules, zero tolerance is dangerous in any case; extremes always area. I'll make mine all of Kile Morgan's words, to just make it short.

And there's no point in a poll if you can't measure the amount of rejection. I mean, a "one option poll" measures how many supported, but not how may out of all of those who read and thought about it did so. Presently, you got 10 x 2; but how many read and decided not to vote? At the very least 03, which makes 10 favor against 05 against - and that's quite a diference. But I doubt that we're just 03.

[+Colibri]

Chroma, no i won't delete your post, it's well worded and i don't see anything wrong with it

With the poll, I think there should be at least a 3rd option. But anyway, no matter the result, it won't just automatically change anything. It's however good to have a general opinion.

Anyhoo, as i already wrote, there will be some new rules, i think so far the only thing this thread changed is that it increased the priority of such a change.

[OldManAlewar]

Zero Tolerance Bill-
ok so i posted in another forum b/c well i really think theres got to be a way to keep the staff from being so overwhelmed.
Sooo, i propose a policy change, so when anyone is found exploiting or afk macroing or cheating or harassing staff and players that they should automatically get banned or jailed. I was on a shard once that had this policy and it was like, wow. It felt like we never had any trouble makers b/c when staff found out about them, that was it, no rumors no excuses just dealt with. not only that but everyone knew the consequence so like, everyone followed the rules. well except for the the few that thought they could get away with it. it just felt really protected. so anyway, you can vote if you want but really the only vote i care about is my own b/c i really believe in it. obviously staff will do it how they see fit but i still want them to know we have their back and we arent going to add to the problems.

love,
Llexa

it just felt really protected.

And thats everything thats wrong with it. People should learn to not take things so seriously, and merely ignore the ignorant. Some players, after a few choice words, may just wisen up and become prouctive, contributing members.

plus, nobody EVER outlives a zero tolerance situation. for example, had this been in effect a few months ago when you, llexa was in a very public snafu with someone in the public chat, by zero tolerance would now be banned.

Nobody EVER wins in a zero-tolerance situation.

[Sorgon]

So, my personal suggestion is... to accept the things you cannot change;
courage to change the things you can; and wisdom to know the difference. Or as one of my favorite says is.... Please exit stage left.

Now i have taken this prayer and adjusted it to my personal mantra which I use daily. to accept the people you cannot change;the courage to change the situations you can; and wisdom to know the difference.....

[Kile Morgan]

Actually no i like to show staff when i back them up. kinda sick of people who decide that being a rebel is cool and being a jerk to players and staff is cool. so i go by zero tolerance 100%. And im gonna show them my support for harsher punishment. they have to be sick of all the drama b/c as a player i am sick of it and i dont even have to deal with the background stuff.

Licos, you basically summed it up from the social and psychological stand point and i agree 100++++% (btw dynamite post)
As for the vote being biased, well i really just wanted to have a 'yes i vote for it!' but the thing said i needed at least 2 options, but really its a petition style poll and to show staff support.
This might be a game but some people expect it to be *snap snap* when they want something. i thought they were the staffers and the owners of this free shard, not servants. *scratches head*.

Anyway no point in responding too much b/c there will always be people who want to argue for the sake of argument. so i'll just say i agree with Licos and hope that some changes come around. ive been here for...1074 days and i dont think ive ever seen staff get overwhelmed and upset like they have in the last 3 months or so. used to always be peaceful... *evil glare*

p.s. cast your vote! even if youre just standing up for the shard and nothing happens its worth casting.

love,
Llexa

[edit: ooo yeah about the turnover, sheesh i knew there was something else lol. i would assume that most people are cut out for it or couldnt handle it. i dont wanna speculate though b/c i dont know and none of us do except the staff and its really their business.]

As you have not directed these comments to any one person I will assume it is directed at anyone who states a view other then yours. When discussing what I felt this was a bad idea I went out of my way to discuss. The only statement I made was that I felt you were well meaning in your view. I would expect the same from you. I have stated what was my view not to be cool but because I believed in what I said. I have not been a jerk in this discussion of it or anyone who has expressed a view. I had planned on not saying anything else because it was clear that neither you or I would change the others view. However this required some response. Not because I take offense or am somehow hurt but because I see it as unfair to use such statements as you have. Also why bother to have a poll if as you put it you only care about having a yes vote. That is intellectually dishonest. You should have just made a normal post and said you wanted zero tolerance and didn't care a wit what anyone else wanted. At least then there would have been no waste of time in trying to discuss opposing viewpoints. In all this I speak only for myself and my views. I have not been on as long as say you or Hara or many others, however I have been on long enough to see how people can switch between helpful to hurtful and back. How they can one day be kind to players and the next insult or attack. I said players but honestly I mean people. Everyone including myself fits this pattern except perhaps Neptune who I have noticed is the most evenhanded in dealing with situations or posting in here. I would also going back to the beginning of what I quoted as your post and remind you that under a zero tolerance policy your comments on other players could well earn you censure or ban also. I'm sure you did not consider that and perhaps you feel you mean it in a different way then as it can be taken.

[Sorgon]

Really have been holding back my opinion. But I cant any longer. Does everyone think that on a FREE shard that is run by a overly kind and generous person qualifies it as a Democracy? This is a game. To be more accurate This is Coli's World. His Rules, his staff and ultimately his final say.

This shard has very fair staff from what I have experienced. I also believe they are a bit overwhelmed at times and can't get to everything as fast as everyone likes. So if they jail someone until they can figure out something....then so be it.

The staff have real lives and cannot always get to our issues as fast as people like. I am not lashing out at anyone here, even I have been waiting for over 3 months now on an answer to a situation I inquired about. But I am being patient and waiting.

So to sum it up I voted for a zero tolerance policy. I believe that on a family shard alot of things should not be tolerated. Remember people this is not a paid shard that is staffed 24/7 and if problems come up it may take time before they are dealt with.

[Akira]

save the shard vote for the zero tolerance bill? what is this demoncratic campaign?
whats all the fuss anyway? we're playing a game for free there should be no complaints, i really dont get the point of being around here posting useless stuff and making the lives of the people concerned about this shard miserable with so much misinformation,
i mean, i do this once in a while but only to upset everyone in a humorous way, you all need to (EN)lighten up people,
if you want to argue do it in a constructive productive rational way, and if you're so worried learn some programing and help yourselves turning the shard into a better place, everybody's got great opinions on how to improve the shards gameplay but no one wants to work out for them, besides most people posting about this are like 3 weeks old? i dont get it. prob will be gone before anything gets done, and i do understand the worries of the older players, like lexa, and it is really time to face the strange chchchchanges, this is no longer a 30player shard we have hundrs of players now and we gotta trust and support the management of our beloved Admins but we dont have to be extremists and gotta have some bottom line for stuff.

[Llexa]

it just felt really protected.

And thats everything thats wrong with it. People should learn to not take things so seriously, and merely ignore the ignorant.

I completely disagree. Why subject people to things they shouldn't have to be subjected to? Why have a kid come on here, knowing full well its a family shard and later go, mommy what does "fudge" mean? its NOT right! and don't start on the "well the parent shouldnt let them play" it's bologna. its a family shard and thats what is expected, that its safe.

plus, nobody EVER outlives a zero tolerance situation. for example, had this been in effect a few months ago when you, llexa was in a very public snafu with someone in the public chat, by zero tolerance would now be banned.

you are, like others, missing the point completely. I said zero tolerance, meaning people will absolutely be given consequence. zero tolerance simply means that there WILL be consequences, not there MIGHT be.
and as far as that situation, no i wouldnt be banned.

Nobody EVER wins in a zero-tolerance situation.

again, i disagree. b/c its bologna. again... its called being held accountable. that will never fail. it will never be perfect but it will be far from failing. if you dont have rules and boundaries and consequences and expected behavior and goals, then you wont strive and mature and grow.

the fact of the matter is that setting rules and holding people accountable takes a little bit of effort and a lot of people dont want to put in the effort so instead they say "ok ok ok fine, everything goes just ignore what you dont like".. its a copout.
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Kile Morgan: holy hiccups.... dont skew what i am saying, please. you arent the only one but im just tackling that now. im not saying it's on purpose but just read it through before posting it. I SAID that my vote was the one i cared about giving, b/c i believed in it (ie if i was the only one to vote it would still be worth it for me to vote). I encouraged those who were FOR it to vote too. i explained that i wanted to do this PETITION style but couldnt only give one option. if we have 100 people on the shard i want to show how many people agree, thats it. if you dont agree, that'll be the other number. Either you are for a petition and sign it or you walk away or say you dont agree. i cant figure out everything in your paragraph b/c its really drawn together but, i think i covered the things i picked up.
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Sorgon: you're awesome. I'm glad you get what im saying and aren't skewing it. thanks man.
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Chroma: I dont think staff are screwing up but i think players bologna them over. Neptunes been around for awhile now, not sure how long but awhile and Osiris has been around a long time and they both seem fine. i bet its a tough job and people just cant deal with it. so they quit or get fired whatev, its not my business and not the point of anything. the point of this thing is that players are sick of other players being trouble makers. the answer to zero tolerance is pretty simple; DON'T cause trouble and you wont have a problem. its pretty simple.
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Akira: bottom lines are what make things run smoothly. people will see "oh if i do that ima get in trouble. so im not gonna do it, get put in jail and waste staff's time b/c there's no way i can talk my way out of the consequences."

you should read Licos post, its really great.
_________
i trust the staff here, and i want them to know they have my/our support when it comes to rules and punishments. that we stand behind rules that keep things in line and keep things safe and secure. and whatever they decide to do is fine too. im just totally willing to follow a strict policy if they go that route.

love,
Llexa

[Licos]

Nobody EVER wins in a zero-tolerance situation.

I think there is need for clarification. "Zero-tolerance" (at least the way I see it) means that for a defined offense, there is definite punishment. That doesn't mean that, for example, a person gets hung and has their body on display for stealing a pack of gum. That simply means that the consequences that fit the offense are always, every time, 100% are going to follow the offense. I don't think the focus is that if someone has 10 min to respond to a PM for afk mining, and they respond in 12 minutes...that they get banned. It just means that they will definitely receive that initial warning. Then they definitely receive that confiscation of ingots, then the 1 hour ban, then 3, then a day, then a week, then a month, then forever (or something along those lines). But, I personally think that a sequence of this length in progression is too leniant. Of course, if the offense is that you figured out a way to dupe mithril bars and you're now a kagillionare, that’s a different story. Clearly you know what you were doing is wrong and high up on the scale of violation, and honestly I don't want people like that playing here. In fact, I will say they don't deserve to be here. A lot of people on here are honest players and courteous to players and staff, and to give a 57th chance to a player like this is unfair. So, what’s the big deal with that? What’s wrong with having some consistency and some dependability? Some action(non-action) turning to reaction?

And by the way, I'm "winning" in this whatever tolerance situation we are currently in. I have no reason to believe I wouldn't survive in a zero-tolerance situation. That's because I don't cheat. That's because I don't exploit. I don't open my mouth to insult a fellow player or talk back to staff. If I did, I would hope I got punished for whatever it was I did, and justly. Give me my warning for afk macroing or if I said something questionable in global chat. If I repeatedly violate rules after multiple warnings and reprimands, I deserve to be banned for weeks-months according to the rules. Why is this so difficult? Am I missing the boat here?

what’s all the fuss anyway? We’re playing a game for free there should be no complaints

We are investing time into something that many of us have happily paid for through donation. Most of us play by the rules and play here because we like the order the shard promotes and the social structure it has. Some of us fuss because we believe this place is worth the fuss. I'm going to have a fuss and be angry if there are people ruining the experience on here for others and myself, or creating an unfair situation.

[Kaimelar]

Llexa, you are talking about a computer game, right?

Zero tolerance? I think you are taking things waaay too seriously.