Unfair jail sentence

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fingers
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Re: Unfair jail sentence

Post by fingers »

+Requiem wrote:Thank you for that.

When i said i didn't remember saying close, i thought you were referencing the time limit you had left to answer the question.

Yes, I said close, as in the question was 8 - 8, and you answered 8 + 8.
Hoooo! I see :D Well having a 10 years old computer (512 mo/ram ftw!) with the matching screen, and the fact that my game window is approx 40% of my 14 1/2 inch screen, the problem for me was not to process the problem (I have a University degree) but to see it correctly!
+Requiem wrote: Incorrect answers will be counted as failing the afk check. Consider this fair warning.
When its a math problem, i have been lenient on the answers. (Such as allowing 16, when the answer is 8 ). In light of recent events, this will be coming to an end as apparently leniency leads people to think they can get away with it.
I think that the AFK-Check system should aim at catching the culprit while causing as little problem as possible to the players who respect the rules. Reading that you intend to give no chance if I happen to misinterpret a sign in your equation will only lead me to stop what I enjoy the most in this game: hunting.

I don't know if it is possible with the software, but perhaps a good idea would be to use larger letters for the old players using old computers (like me :) )
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+Requiem
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Re: Unfair jail sentence

Post by +Requiem »

Unfortunately, that option does not exist currently that i know of. You will know if its the wrong answer, as the question will either continue repeating, or start anew. Depending on how resourceful i am feeling, it might even be a different question all together.
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+Requiem
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Re: Unfair jail sentence

Post by +Requiem »

You will still receive a total of 60 seconds to answer correctly. I didn't mean immediate jail for a mistake, or unintentional typo.
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fingers
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Re: Unfair jail sentence

Post by fingers »

That works for me! I doubt i would misread twice in a row, so it is fine either way (if the question doesn't go away, I will realise fast enough :geek:

On a side note:
+Requiem wrote: [...] (although i prefer F keys for that reason or the logitech keyboard with 18 G keys... so i don't have to clear that wall of text)[...]

F1: Enemy of one, F2: consacrate weapon, F3: divine fury, F4 cleanse by fire, F5: Say "All guard me", F6: Say "All follow me", F7: Say "all kill", F8: say "all stay", F9: use skill/discordance, F10: use skill/provocation, F11: use skill/peacemaking, F12: animal taming

So yah, I use the key pad, letters and even use Alt and Ctrl for certain macros :woot:

Dog in french is "Chien", so my alt+c shrinks my imp dogs, lol
Kevan
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Re: Unfair jail sentence

Post by Kevan »

Has anyone considered providing two options for punishment: tasks OR time spent in jail? If I were given 500 tasks OR 2 weeks in jail I would find the 2 weeks to be a harsher penalty of the 2 but it may be my only option considering limited playtime. Maybe it would also be good for some offenders to get away for a while to recharge, particularly if their offense was related to disruptive behavior.

Sure, I see the counter arguments: You aren't penalizing them because they can just play WoW or other games for two weeks. Yes, they can but if the penalty is hitting the person who really wants to be here, then they WANT to play here. Just make sure the time off penalty is considerably more harsh than the tasks penalty. For instance: 5 tasks OR 24 hours. 50 tasks OR 3 days. 500 tasks OR 14 days. 2000 tasks OR 30 days.

At the end of the day those time periods would be a harsher penalty but provide an additional outlet for penalty and give people time to consider their crimes.

You could also consider using time passed to deteriorate tasks. Maybe 10 tasks per 24 hours?
Kevan
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Re: Unfair jail sentence

Post by Kevan »

Also, for the sake of administration of time served you could also only offer the time served on larger offenses. Maybe jail times of 100 tasks or more would have a time spent option, in order to limit the amount of pages the staff would have to deal with in case it isn't easily coded.
seoman
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Re: Unfair jail sentence

Post by seoman »

What are jail tasks?


How does an AFK check work well hunting? Used to get the resource gathering ones and would get one if stood around doing nothing well hunting (waiting for Lady Mel to spawn for example) but not well actively hunting.

Just trying to understand how it works. If I'm standing there with my bow, kill a mob and then start killing another without moving, I can get an AFK check?
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+Veritas
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Re: Unfair jail sentence

Post by +Veritas »

The two options approach has been considered. However, task jailing has been an overall better deterrent. Before its implementation, players would do their usual thing that got them into trouble just enough to the point where they were near a heavy punishment. Then, they would take a break from the game for a bit, their offenses would decay by our guidelines, and then go right back to it again. Some were even logging in on a monthly basis to just poke at the population and the staff enough to get jailed for a lengthy time, and they wouldn’t log back in until their time was up. Rinse and repeat. Players can still get away and blow off some steam, take a deep breath, and get some perspective with task jailing. They would just have to come back and pay for their violation.

In response to the tasks OR time idea, I am not sure how effective it would be to give the person an option for their punishment. Forced time off a game can affect people differently, or not at all. Having to do tasks to get back to playing a game you’re interested in playing is a negative experience to all, either by its inherent purpose to serve as payment of time and effort to the shard for the violation committed, or by being forced to do something you don’t want to do before you can do something you want to do. Also, by providing an individual the ability to work their way out, they are in control of the time they have to spend in jail. If a player is particularly upset for a sentence of 5 tasks, they can do them upset or do any number of things prior to returning to do their tasks. In the end, they have to do their tasks. The only variable in this case is the speed of which the tasks are completed. Unless there is a player out there that finds this fun, this guarantees that there is an aversive experience from it. We, as staff, did not control whether there was aversion with time jailing. And, yes, I use “aversion” because it is not supposed to be a pleasant experience.

And over-time decay of tasks is just the same of giving options to the one jailed, and I don’t support that.
Staff spent countless hours in chat rooms and Skype voice conferences figuring out the punishment system. Going over records and discussing options and ways to handle situations is a daily occurrence, and has been for several years. We go over the behavior and jail records of players who are here, and who were here and have since been banned or left the shard. We do this to monitor the success of what we do and evolve when necessary. Over the years, staff have considers many things. Task jailing is an evolution of our punishment system that has drastically decreased the number of issues we encountered prior to its implementation. If data-based decision making is truly the best decision making, and many of the issues before have decreased, then one could say the lower occurrence is correlated with the new punishment system.

Thanks for your input,

+V
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May the BODs be ever in your favor!
seoman
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Re: Unfair jail sentence

Post by seoman »

What are the tasks when in jail?
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+Veritas
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Re: Unfair jail sentence

Post by +Veritas »

seoman wrote:What are jail tasks?


How does an AFK check work well hunting? Used to get the resource gathering ones and would get one if stood around doing nothing well hunting (waiting for Lady Mel to spawn for example) but not well actively hunting.

Just trying to understand how it works. If I'm standing there with my bow, kill a mob and then start killing another without moving, I can get an AFK check?
Jail tasks are task you must do in jail that center on gathering randomly placed items within the jail area.

You received a resource gathering captcha while standing around doing nothing? Do you have a date/time of this?

You could get AFK checked at any time. Staff do "the rounds" and check everyone periodically. If you are standing inside your house, in a town, or even in the middle of a dungeon hidden, we aren't going to hold you accountable to responding to an AFK check. However, if your character is engaged in activity that results in receiving tokens, weapon experience, or loot, and you are not presenting behavior that would occur from a present player (Eg: random walking, world/guild/party/global chat, etc), then you will likely be AFK checked.

So, to answer your question, "yes" you can be AFK checked for that if you are standing around attacking/retaliating mobs and giving no obvious signs of you being present or paying attention to your client window.

+V
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seoman
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Re: Unfair jail sentence

Post by seoman »

Don't think they were captcha checks 3 years ago...

Just remember standing around waiting for Lady Mel to spawn and would get the gump popping up.
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Kevan
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Re: Unfair jail sentence

Post by Kevan »

+Veritas wrote:In response to the tasks OR time idea, I am not sure how effective it would be to give the person an option for their punishment. Forced time off a game can affect people differently, or not at all. Having to do tasks to get back to playing a game you’re interested in playing is a negative experience to all, either by its inherent purpose to serve as payment of time and effort to the shard for the violation committed, or by being forced to do something you don’t want to do before you can do something you want to do. Also, by providing an individual the ability to work their way out, they are in control of the time they have to spend in jail. If a player is particularly upset for a sentence of 5 tasks, they can do them upset or do any number of things prior to returning to do their tasks. In the end, they have to do their tasks. The only variable in this case is the speed of which the tasks are completed. Unless there is a player out there that finds this fun, this guarantees that there is an aversive experience from it. We, as staff, did not control whether there was aversion with time jailing. And, yes, I use “aversion” because it is not supposed to be a pleasant experience.
Do you guys feel you set up the penalty to primarily curb the blatant and chronic offenders? I can't speak for anyone else but I feel pretty confident that the overwhelming majority of the shard would find 500 tasks to be infinitely more desirable than being jailed for say 14, or even 30 days. Most of us play here because we genuinely enjoy it - a testament to the enivornment the GMs have created here. We want to be here, as I'm sure does Nass Karr.

Based on your description of repeat offenders, that sounds like the system was created to penalize the exceptions to the rule: The people who don't care about playing here very much and don't mind disappearing for 2 weeks, 30 days, 60 days, etc. Those players working the old system that didn't learn their lesson because they could just disappear for weeks or a month or two at a time and return to work the system again don't seem to be the norm of the players I've experienced here the last few months.

Anyone know the fastest average time you can complete a single task? As a variation of a hybrid system, to ensure that offenders who don't genuinely care about being stuck in jail for weeks or months at a time, can there be a system in which offenders on their 3rd or higher violation could have their tasks reduced after time? For example, Nass Karr has 500 tasks which he obviously feels is incredibly overwhelming. If he were offered a reduction to 100 tasks after 2 weeks of real time, would that be an option? If he wants to play here, he would be penalized by not being able to, and he would still have to do a few hours of tasks after he returns as well. Also, by eliminating a full decay system, you don't allow those offenders you mentioned to work the system by just letting their tasks decay and not making them do the "hard" time.

Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think people who just want to troll the shard are going to do 100 tasks just to do so. Or 200. Or whatever number the floor could be.
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Re: Unfair jail sentence

Post by Xavian »

You would be amazed at the stuff a troll will do, simply for the sake of being a troll
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fingers
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Re: Unfair jail sentence

Post by fingers »

Kevan wrote: Anyone know the fastest average time you can complete a single task?
If i remember, I once got 25 tasks and it took me a few hours to complete. The time it takes to complete one can vary because the number of items to gather (it's been a long time but something like 8-12) and the fact that, say the order is white ingots, they spawn randombly with black ingots, white and black ore and white and black wood. The area to search is quite big and you need to place the items in a very slow mule.

Yes, I can see that 500 tasks could feel overwhelming (especially for someone who is actually to lazy to even hunt manually, heh!)
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Re: Unfair jail sentence

Post by Xavian »

fingers wrote: Yes, I can see that 500 tasks could feel overwhelming (especially for someone who is actually to lazy to even hunt manually, heh!)
Too lazy to hunt manually is one thing. Not caring enough to be at the keyboard while hunting automatically is a whole other story. Can't AFK jail tasks
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