I rarely hunt. Usually just at events. Makes things much easier as i don't need all the high-end stuff. I have one bio and some mediocre gear and do well accept in the most challenging places.
Instead i do some bod filling to keep me busy trying to get me some sets of +5 gear eventually.
I've noticed a massive price drop in bod rewards too lately. Take PoF for instance. These were 100k-150k for years. Now you can't sell them for 75k even with people undercutting that price by 10k. It's just crazy especially when you realise these sell just fine at double that price.
People want to sell items as fast as possible so they get invest in something else. Longterm effects are of no concern to them.
I've been thinking of dropping my vendor more than once just because it's not worth having a vendor if i maintain my (already lowered) prices.
I refuse to lower my prices any further because i can as well give the items away. I find that very frustrating.
Economic Downturn
Re: Economic Downturn
No easy fix for this one. As sad to say as it is, it felt like the same thing happened on OSI servers after the player-crafted market was virtually cast aside with the introduction of artifacts, etc (basically anything other than "of power, of silver, of vanquishing" etc.) Once the only viable equipment was non-player crafted, the premium on artis went up until the most efficient ways to get that arti were figured out, then camping ensued which flooded the market. Once an update would come out with some more powerful stuff, the cycle would repeat itself only this time all of the old underpowered stuff was sold for pennies on the dollar to the younger/newer players. That generation of players didn't have to work as hard to get it, so the value was never there to begin with among them.
Regarding the relayer comments, my only thought is that excelsior allows users to have their cake and eat it too, especially with weapon relayers. When you can take any weapon and change weapon type, add spell channeling, one-handed, etc. of course there are only going to be a few smart options out there. By removing any consequences of choosing one weapon over another by simply having the option to spend EDs to have the best of both worlds, it has completely marginalized everything but the best couple of choices out of a significant inventory of possible weapons.
On top of this, the weapon/equipment, and possibly pets market will continue to be the dominant ones simply because there is no viable alternative to make gold with. Player-crafted items outside of arms and equipment are entirely useless. Why bother selling furniture when you'd have to make thousands of fancy elven chairs and sell them to even come close to one decent drop from a monster. To take that even further, with no skill cap and the ability to macro, it takes all of a couple days to 120 any crafting skill you want with easily less than 100k, and that's if you just buy all the mats off exex. Because the only buying/selling ads you see are constantly for weaps and equipment, these are the prices that are familiar to everyone that have the highest rates of undercutting and undervaluing. No one rushes to undercut elven armoires at 500 gold a piece because it's not worth the time outside of sheer boredom and trying to corner a market just to do it.
Regarding the relayer comments, my only thought is that excelsior allows users to have their cake and eat it too, especially with weapon relayers. When you can take any weapon and change weapon type, add spell channeling, one-handed, etc. of course there are only going to be a few smart options out there. By removing any consequences of choosing one weapon over another by simply having the option to spend EDs to have the best of both worlds, it has completely marginalized everything but the best couple of choices out of a significant inventory of possible weapons.
On top of this, the weapon/equipment, and possibly pets market will continue to be the dominant ones simply because there is no viable alternative to make gold with. Player-crafted items outside of arms and equipment are entirely useless. Why bother selling furniture when you'd have to make thousands of fancy elven chairs and sell them to even come close to one decent drop from a monster. To take that even further, with no skill cap and the ability to macro, it takes all of a couple days to 120 any crafting skill you want with easily less than 100k, and that's if you just buy all the mats off exex. Because the only buying/selling ads you see are constantly for weaps and equipment, these are the prices that are familiar to everyone that have the highest rates of undercutting and undervaluing. No one rushes to undercut elven armoires at 500 gold a piece because it's not worth the time outside of sheer boredom and trying to corner a market just to do it.
Re: Economic Downturn
Deorum wrote: No one rushes to undercut elven armoires at 500 gold a piece because it's not worth the time outside of sheer boredom and trying to corner a market just to do it.
Agree on this comment but, you wouldn't know that the lowest was 500 in 30 seconds or might not even care to look to see what the pricing is before you price, if you didn't have vendors.uoex.net to easily help you see what others are charging.
Re: Economic Downturn
With gold being so easy to obtain, i doubt a established hunter would care what the decoration item cost. Not like they're going to need a endless supply.
Another argument is, if you charge too much. the hunter can just craft the decoration item easily because we have freedom of skills.
Times like this, it would be nice to have skill caps but who really wants that?
Everything in game has been done before and done over and over and over and over and over. Personally i would relayer a full blacksmith suit if it was worth it.
Would be nice if you could earn every single slot crafting suits(tinkering/alchemy/more) and then there be an actual benefit to it. Like giving a crafter the ability to add intensity to weapons or stats with super long quests.
Maybe add specialization to each craft and you can only have one per account. This would be neat.
In depth gardening where you can grow plants that offer different stat buffs that last a hour instead of a minute.
Potions that could shield you from different types of blasts in game.
These would be cool and offer variety and tons of grinding and gathering.
Could make something new to craft that requires a TON of logs or iron or both to get new players gathering resources and exex lower on stock.
I feel as though a good solution would be a solution that involves using resources ( All ingots, all logs, all leather types, all reagents, fish , and more ) to give resources value and the reward has to intrigue the mediocre to well equipped player.
^ Promote gathering in some way !
Another argument is, if you charge too much. the hunter can just craft the decoration item easily because we have freedom of skills.
Times like this, it would be nice to have skill caps but who really wants that?
Everything in game has been done before and done over and over and over and over and over. Personally i would relayer a full blacksmith suit if it was worth it.
Would be nice if you could earn every single slot crafting suits(tinkering/alchemy/more) and then there be an actual benefit to it. Like giving a crafter the ability to add intensity to weapons or stats with super long quests.
Maybe add specialization to each craft and you can only have one per account. This would be neat.
In depth gardening where you can grow plants that offer different stat buffs that last a hour instead of a minute.
Potions that could shield you from different types of blasts in game.
These would be cool and offer variety and tons of grinding and gathering.
Could make something new to craft that requires a TON of logs or iron or both to get new players gathering resources and exex lower on stock.
I feel as though a good solution would be a solution that involves using resources ( All ingots, all logs, all leather types, all reagents, fish , and more ) to give resources value and the reward has to intrigue the mediocre to well equipped player.
^ Promote gathering in some way !
Re: Economic Downturn
Oh I fully agree with that. vendors.uoex.net was incredibly useful when I first started playing, however now that I have seen how the economy can be dramatically deflated within a couple seconds and a few mouse clicks through that site and the game, I'd agree that it does more harm than good in the grander scheme. It applies in game just as it would in the real world economy. If you could instantly access what every retailer was selling something for to determine the cheapest price, that retailer would instantly have the entire market for that item until another retailer decided to lower the price. At that point, it would continue until the absolute rock-bottom hit, where it was just barely a profitable enterprise, and then the only retailers doing it would be those that deal in a significant enough volume to justify the earnings per individual sale when applied over the several hundred/thousand item sold threshold.Dramoor wrote:Deorum wrote: No one rushes to undercut elven armoires at 500 gold a piece because it's not worth the time outside of sheer boredom and trying to corner a market just to do it.
Agree on this comment but, you wouldn't know that the lowest was 500 in 30 seconds or might not even care to look to see what the pricing is before you price, if you didn't have vendors.uoex.net to easily help you see what others are charging.
If 500gp was the going price for elven chairs or whatever it was, that was simply a lucky guess (I didn't check the site prior to throwing that number out there).
Re: Economic Downturn
Go to [exex and put a buy order in for something undercut it by .01 or the lowest you can undercut it. Wait 20 min to 1 hour. Most likely you will be undercut. The same can go for using that site, you sit at your vendor (where you have either your portal if at your shop, or close to portal at TC/MZ, decide the item, go to vendorsuoex.net type in name, see item that is for sale, go to all vendors selling, find price, reduce price, check in 2 hrs in case of new sales lower, or decrease in vendors. May not be as fast as when the pricing was there, But watch shop names, some shops change their name every few days or Hours to compete better with other shops.
After about 2 days of doing this on pricing of items, an item worth 20k can easily go down to about 4500 gp. (if you watch vendors, that has happened on a lot of items in the past month). And that wasn't due to overstocking or multi players, that is what happens when players compete and have the ease at their fingertips to easily find pricing and adjust.
Pricing would go down less, if you had no idea where to look for every item from every player that is selling the items you sell. Who wants to go to all those shops, and all those vendors to check for themselves to find everything to price? Noone. but when it is there and easier, it happens.
And Hey, it huts the new players in the long run, not the veterans. Veterans can make money without vendors. The new players that fight each other for pricing and in turn make half the stuff they want to sell have no value and not worth selling (especially with the tax put on vendors of 1k minimum per vendor to be listed on vendors.uoex.net which is said by coli to go up to maybe 3k per day so 21k per week + any other fees for telepad or any of that) .
After about 2 days of doing this on pricing of items, an item worth 20k can easily go down to about 4500 gp. (if you watch vendors, that has happened on a lot of items in the past month). And that wasn't due to overstocking or multi players, that is what happens when players compete and have the ease at their fingertips to easily find pricing and adjust.
Pricing would go down less, if you had no idea where to look for every item from every player that is selling the items you sell. Who wants to go to all those shops, and all those vendors to check for themselves to find everything to price? Noone. but when it is there and easier, it happens.
And Hey, it huts the new players in the long run, not the veterans. Veterans can make money without vendors. The new players that fight each other for pricing and in turn make half the stuff they want to sell have no value and not worth selling (especially with the tax put on vendors of 1k minimum per vendor to be listed on vendors.uoex.net which is said by coli to go up to maybe 3k per day so 21k per week + any other fees for telepad or any of that) .
Re: Economic Downturn
Im a newer player, and havent posted anything on the forum yet nor made a forum account until today upon reading this thread. And might i say, sheesh some posts in this thread realy disgusts me... so i felt i should react on this and share my point of view.
Like i said im a new player, but i came too a point where i can start making my way into mid level tier. For me this is killing Balrons , slowly try to farm Gauntlet and trying to get some of the items for Peerless that i can use when im stronger... and potentially get a good income of gold on the way.
But unfortunally this is all made almost impossible for me, why? Ill tell you why... and this is where my rage and disgusts starts.
Last day i was killing Balrons, because i wanted the gold to be able to replace some of the old items i had from my newbie fase. After killing 4-5 Balrons, wich took me quite a while and wasnt easy.. but i managed, because for my character level the are exactly what i should be doing. So after killing a few Balrons another player arrives.
I said Hello too him, and without returning greetings... he started telling me how my Mules where too weak too fight Balrons.. and that they would die.. so because of that HE would be doing in the Balrons now.
I tried too fight for the spawn... but he was simply much stronger then me.. and upon inspecting he was loaded with about 8 relayed bonecrushers etc... almost 3 shotting Balrons.
So i went away, trying too find another good spot.. where i could get a bit of gold, and what i found realy opened my eyes too what was going on on this server.
I saw Relayared people everywhere! not 1 not 2 relayers no fully decked out people at every single low to mid level tier spot . Like "Mister Balron Guy" Choosing the easy path of farming stuff way underneath their prowess.. so they could semi afk farm on UO while watching some netflix crap or something .. i dunno. And i did not want too lower myself and hunt below my strenght, to being the same way and having too occupy locations known where Young players farm.
From these experiences my oppinion was formed. And there is what disgusts me... on this thread people complaining on everything is dropping in prices.. and why newer players are refusing too pay as much as people did in the past. In my eyes these people are literally complaining how they cant squeeze out the newbies from every single penny they earned anymore.
And i am frankly one of those newbies. I refuse too pay a week time spend of gold farming too purchase an item i can farm myself... but wich is made impossible by veteran players camp/farming way below their tier of strenght on those spots 24/7.
Dont get me wrong, i would gladly spend my full bank balance for an item wich isnt easy too get. As long as i know the item has been obtained without autoloot derp mode on.
So for the Downturn problem, i too be honest cannot come up with a good solution. The only thing i could think of is that players need to find back the challange again, needing to focus on what they are doing. What fun is a game, when your pre occupied with something else? i cant wrap my head around that.
I am used too having too work for my gainings, this whole instant gratification , fast food and gains with least amount of effort generation is alien too me. I dont find enjoyment in semi derped out automated farming gains, but i guess this is how people want it nowadays. But if players want too play like this, nothing wrong with that, for each their own. But it disturbs me personally. Perhaps this is simply not the game i should be playing. *shrugs*
I hope by sharing my oppinion on this would help along the way of finding a solution.
My 2 cents
P.S on a side note, i noticed people and certain guilds have stopped or rarely calling out MoA/Newbie Champion spawns on global chat, when they are up. While first 3 days i played, players still did this, and this was realy helpfull too me. Not only the gold or scrolls that came from it.. but also the general experience and introduction of a unique feature this shard has .
Please start calling out new player champs again and explain newer people where these are located etc, it helped me and i see others immensely! A few more players wont hurt the chance of getting a PS at all
Like i said im a new player, but i came too a point where i can start making my way into mid level tier. For me this is killing Balrons , slowly try to farm Gauntlet and trying to get some of the items for Peerless that i can use when im stronger... and potentially get a good income of gold on the way.
But unfortunally this is all made almost impossible for me, why? Ill tell you why... and this is where my rage and disgusts starts.
Last day i was killing Balrons, because i wanted the gold to be able to replace some of the old items i had from my newbie fase. After killing 4-5 Balrons, wich took me quite a while and wasnt easy.. but i managed, because for my character level the are exactly what i should be doing. So after killing a few Balrons another player arrives.
I said Hello too him, and without returning greetings... he started telling me how my Mules where too weak too fight Balrons.. and that they would die.. so because of that HE would be doing in the Balrons now.
I tried too fight for the spawn... but he was simply much stronger then me.. and upon inspecting he was loaded with about 8 relayed bonecrushers etc... almost 3 shotting Balrons.
So i went away, trying too find another good spot.. where i could get a bit of gold, and what i found realy opened my eyes too what was going on on this server.
I saw Relayared people everywhere! not 1 not 2 relayers no fully decked out people at every single low to mid level tier spot . Like "Mister Balron Guy" Choosing the easy path of farming stuff way underneath their prowess.. so they could semi afk farm on UO while watching some netflix crap or something .. i dunno. And i did not want too lower myself and hunt below my strenght, to being the same way and having too occupy locations known where Young players farm.
From these experiences my oppinion was formed. And there is what disgusts me... on this thread people complaining on everything is dropping in prices.. and why newer players are refusing too pay as much as people did in the past. In my eyes these people are literally complaining how they cant squeeze out the newbies from every single penny they earned anymore.
And i am frankly one of those newbies. I refuse too pay a week time spend of gold farming too purchase an item i can farm myself... but wich is made impossible by veteran players camp/farming way below their tier of strenght on those spots 24/7.
Dont get me wrong, i would gladly spend my full bank balance for an item wich isnt easy too get. As long as i know the item has been obtained without autoloot derp mode on.
So for the Downturn problem, i too be honest cannot come up with a good solution. The only thing i could think of is that players need to find back the challange again, needing to focus on what they are doing. What fun is a game, when your pre occupied with something else? i cant wrap my head around that.
I am used too having too work for my gainings, this whole instant gratification , fast food and gains with least amount of effort generation is alien too me. I dont find enjoyment in semi derped out automated farming gains, but i guess this is how people want it nowadays. But if players want too play like this, nothing wrong with that, for each their own. But it disturbs me personally. Perhaps this is simply not the game i should be playing. *shrugs*
I hope by sharing my oppinion on this would help along the way of finding a solution.
My 2 cents
P.S on a side note, i noticed people and certain guilds have stopped or rarely calling out MoA/Newbie Champion spawns on global chat, when they are up. While first 3 days i played, players still did this, and this was realy helpfull too me. Not only the gold or scrolls that came from it.. but also the general experience and introduction of a unique feature this shard has .
Please start calling out new player champs again and explain newer people where these are located etc, it helped me and i see others immensely! A few more players wont hurt the chance of getting a PS at all
Re: Economic Downturn
First off, buddy was rude and shouldn't have treated you like that, sorry you had that experience.Ayik wrote:.
.
I saw Relayared people everywhere! not 1 not 2 relayers no fully decked out people at every single low to mid level tier spot . Like "Mister Balron Guy" Choosing the easy path of farming stuff way underneath their prowess.. so they could semi afk farm on UO while watching some netflix crap or something .. i dunno. And i did not want too lower myself and hunt below my strenght, to being the same way and having too occupy locations known where Young players farm.
When you talk about relayered players should do appropriate level content. The problem is this shard is very much set to "easy mode" there is very little places that are a challenge to high level players. There are some custom areas that staff have made, but they have been nerfed to the point they really arn't fun anymore. Balrons are pretty tough and actually pretty close to appropriate level content for a high end player. Balrons have always been one of the best ways to farm good here. With the few areas that are hard, their gold drops have been nerfed. Sadly, the Balron game is more about finding the spawn up that anything else.
The answer to this problem is more appropriate areas for high level players. Currently there are two new facets in the works. If they are anything like the Christmas "raindeer" quest, these new facets will be a lot of fun and profitable (worth doing as far as gold is concerned). Again though, balrons are sick gold and I expect them to still be a busy spawn, as they always have been.
As for champs, if you want to do more champs, go out and check them! You can find a map here on the forums with all the champ locations. There are many times I check every champ on the shard and don't find any up, that is the work of champs. No offense intended, but in one breath you talk about society wanting things the easy way, wanting instant gratification. But in the next breath you complain that people aren't calling out champs. Put your time in looking for champs and earn the right to those PS.
I hope you can find for yourself a balance and enjoy the shard. There are a few problems here, and a few problem people. But for the most part this is a great community with great people. And thanks to +Nyx and +V for keeping the shard going when +Colibri was on extended hiatus, and for developing the aforementioned new facets, this shard has a bright future.
P.S. As for people recalling around, running scripts and watching TV. I fully agree and I don't like that. I would like to see no recalling in dungeons allowed, to solve this annoying problem. It would also help stop the many of the afk levelers.
TDC Guild
Re: Economic Downturn
Ooh im not saying i need to be told when champs are up, i believe you misunderstood me. I got most of there locatiosn already and check them occasionally. I was talking about keeping the spirit alive wich i experienced. Telling new players when a MoA champ is up, and guiding them there.. teaching them the ropes giving them a small introduction too how champions are. You can read alot on the wiki, but the actual experience is always diffrent.Melkor wrote:
As for champs, if you want to do more champs, go out and check them! You can find a map here on the forums with all the champ locations. There are many times I check every champ on the shard and don't find any up, that is the work of champs. No offense intended, but in one breath you talk about society wanting things the easy way, wanting instant gratification. But in the next breath you complain that people aren't calling out champs. Put your time in looking for champs and earn the right to those PS.
I got the same treatment, players helped me showing exactly where the MoA champs are, demonstrated on how too handle them. And at this day i scout for them myself and call them out when they are up. You might not believe it, but i am completely new to UO.. and this game can be very overwhelming. I bet there are others just like me. First time i went Felucca I had an Umm on me isntantly, and thought Felucca and the Newbie Champs, were still way ahead of my skill.. until someone showed me a safe passage etc.
Anyways i hope you understand what i tried too say, but lets not get offtopic any further.
Last edited by Ayik on Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Economic Downturn
Thanks for the new player perspective Ayik. I agree with Melkor in that you just ran into someone who was not only rude, but not following the shard rules. If a spawn is occupied, you MUST take turns with the spawn. In your case, that would mean you as the original person at the spawn would get the next balron, then the other person has a turn, back to you and so on. If this happens again, being informed of the rules, letting the offending player know, and then paging or messaging staff would be the appropriate response. Balrons are a tricky proposition. There are a few areas where they still provide a challenge (esp when grouped by a bunch of other monsters), but they aren't really end game challenging. However, like Melkor said, they provide a solid gold drop, and for the time spent are probably one of the fastest ways to earn gold. As a result, the spawn is popular. Again, as has been pointed out, hopefully the new content will fix some of this in providing both a challenge and an incentive for mid tier and veteran players to branch out.
Re: Economic Downturn
Sorry for the misunderstanding. I also agree that showing new players the champs and the ropes are very important. This game is massive, and for a new player it can be a lot to take in. I'm always open to [pm's if you or anyone has any questions, I'm happy to help.Ayik wrote: Ooh im not saying i need to be told when champs are up, i believe you misunderstood me.
TDC Guild
Re: Economic Downturn
Balrons aren't meant to be farmed by younger/lower-geared players in the first place. The fact that so many players/guilds are passing out maxed pets and balron books is contributing to that negativity and sense of entitlement I've mentioned previously. There are balrons to camp that are in non-recall dungeons. There are plenty of mobs to farm that vets don't bother to hit. But when a new player thinks that balrons are the thing they should be farming right away, they then get this sense of judgment against any 'vet' players who are farming the same mobs, when really the mobs are meant for the 'vets' to be farming in the first place. Skipping a bunch of steps as a younger player isn't good for anyone - not for the player, the community, or the shard.
Ayik, the experience you described with another player is sad, of course, and they were very rude. Sadly this sort of thing is happening more and more. I see it constantly nowadays. A younger player is instructed to farm balrons for gold, given a book and/or nobles to farm them with. Then the newer player, thinking that this is where younger players are *supposed* to be, sees vets farming them too and becomes resentful, angry, and aggressive. The newer players in these situations are then mouthing off or becoming snarky with the 'vet' players, and/or the 'vet' players are being aggressive with the newer players. I have had to explain the spawn, harassment and blacklisting rules to players under 3 months of account age more times in the past 8-ish months (which is right around when the older players started telling all the new players to hunt balrons) than I had in the entire previous 3 years. In nearly every case, it's been because that young player was blacklisting/harassing/kill stealing/etc an older player because they were farming balrons too.
So again, while it may seem like a really cool thing to do to take a newbie/younger player and give them a balron book/help them start running balrons, you're hurting both the newbie and the shard. Older players need to teach the younger players how to enjoy the variety available in the game, how to profit from more than just 1 thing - otherwise you are just being a major part of the problem for the economy and the community. It widens the gap between the new players and the vets, and absolutely tanks game satisfaction for both groups. Teaching a player that the only viable way to make money as a young player is balrons is crippling them. There are lots of ways for a younger player to make money, with even more in the works. Will they make it as fast as a vet running balrons? No. But they aren't supposed to, either. Skipping those weeks of building up to run balrons is about as smart as skipping from kindergarten to college. It may make for immediate happiness from the newbie, and they'll be grateful, but their overall game experience and satisfaction will burn out a lot faster than if they'd worked their way up to things like balrons.
Younger players - Please understand that Balrons are a high-end mob that are meant to be farmed by the older players. Nobody is going to stop you from farming them if you want to, but the vets aren't encroaching on your territory. They're entitled to farm there.
Older players - A little generosity is a boon. Too much handicaps the recipient. Please for the love of Excelsior, don't handicap the younger players. Teach them about more than just balrons, and help them work their way up to them, don't just throw them in right away.
Ayik, the experience you described with another player is sad, of course, and they were very rude. Sadly this sort of thing is happening more and more. I see it constantly nowadays. A younger player is instructed to farm balrons for gold, given a book and/or nobles to farm them with. Then the newer player, thinking that this is where younger players are *supposed* to be, sees vets farming them too and becomes resentful, angry, and aggressive. The newer players in these situations are then mouthing off or becoming snarky with the 'vet' players, and/or the 'vet' players are being aggressive with the newer players. I have had to explain the spawn, harassment and blacklisting rules to players under 3 months of account age more times in the past 8-ish months (which is right around when the older players started telling all the new players to hunt balrons) than I had in the entire previous 3 years. In nearly every case, it's been because that young player was blacklisting/harassing/kill stealing/etc an older player because they were farming balrons too.
So again, while it may seem like a really cool thing to do to take a newbie/younger player and give them a balron book/help them start running balrons, you're hurting both the newbie and the shard. Older players need to teach the younger players how to enjoy the variety available in the game, how to profit from more than just 1 thing - otherwise you are just being a major part of the problem for the economy and the community. It widens the gap between the new players and the vets, and absolutely tanks game satisfaction for both groups. Teaching a player that the only viable way to make money as a young player is balrons is crippling them. There are lots of ways for a younger player to make money, with even more in the works. Will they make it as fast as a vet running balrons? No. But they aren't supposed to, either. Skipping those weeks of building up to run balrons is about as smart as skipping from kindergarten to college. It may make for immediate happiness from the newbie, and they'll be grateful, but their overall game experience and satisfaction will burn out a lot faster than if they'd worked their way up to things like balrons.
Younger players - Please understand that Balrons are a high-end mob that are meant to be farmed by the older players. Nobody is going to stop you from farming them if you want to, but the vets aren't encroaching on your territory. They're entitled to farm there.
Older players - A little generosity is a boon. Too much handicaps the recipient. Please for the love of Excelsior, don't handicap the younger players. Teach them about more than just balrons, and help them work their way up to them, don't just throw them in right away.
Re: Economic Downturn
I understand what you are saying, and agree somewhat. But i wasnt only talking about Balrons.+Nyx wrote:Balrons aren't meant to be farmed by younger/lower-geared players in the first place.....
But i think you cannot blame the player only. If balrons are vet content, then it should be vet content. But since the shard/staff has introduced costumized pets, wich with a full pack unlocks the younger player to tackle alot of some of the "vet" content without too much stress.
If you want Young players to stay in Young territory.. then dont give them the tools to break out of it too fast. Yes pets are still expensive, but with some research and hard work... its not hard to find out what your first investments should be.
And especially for players that have enough money irl, to donate and deck themselves out with ED equipment and skip a few fases of the game. So in other words the shard is also giving the option to skipping from kindergarten to college. But ofcourse server maintenance and donations are a delicate thing, and most people wont donate without anything in return.
So i think blaming only the player for being hurtfull too the server i tihnk is kind of unfair. There is alot more going on i believe.
Also i wish too add, for any forum reader misunderstanding me.. Since Nyx named my name within the same paragraph of bad young player behaviour. I dont want readers to get the impression that what was said applies too me , because i feel he/she said kinda made it sound like that, but not intentionally. On my encounter i simply tried too compete, couldnt and moved on without saying a word. I even believe that the offender in the situation wouldnt had even picked up in the slightest that, what he was doing was bothering me.
I dont see any reason in picking a fight over pixels. Hopefully this clears things.
But anyways. I simply came here too add my perspective as a newer player on some things that i feel are also detrimental too the economy. In the hope that others would add my oppinion too the pool, so it could help in the way towards a solution. I did not come here too make a huge discussion or having to clarify myself over what happened etc, or discuss server costumizations. Its neither my place nor thread for it. So i am going to leave it here.
Re: Economic Downturn
Ayik, I think the point +Nyx was making relates to an underlying issue with pets in general. While pets are a good way to kind of buffer newer players and allow them to take on tougher spawn, there comes a sense of entitlement with that. Say you invest a mil or 2 in 120 taming/lore and now you are taking on not only balrons, but peerless, champs, gauntlet, etc., etc. While there are a few spots for heavily geared vets such as S'Gail, the issue I am running into is seeing 5 nobles or mules in Peerless, ballys, champ spawns, Fel dungeons, etc. I know pet nerfing is a touchy subject that has been addressed many times over, but I don't know that mid tier players and actual vets are used to seeing the influx of newer players in these places. These are not intended to be for younger players (outside of the newb champ that was specifically for that purpose) and I think therein lies something to consider. I would say in all the places mentioned above, I've recently seen far more newer players and pets than veteran players recently. Many times, this occurs without claiming corpses or even realizing what these areas are for outside of simply grabbing the gold and moving on. I can't tell you how many oints, peerless items, etc. I've gotten just from corpses that were only looted for gold. It shows there is a knowledge gap between the progression that should take place prior to taking on these spawns. How many times do you see in world chat "What's this for?" this generally being an item from a more advanced spawn that someone just happened to pick up but doesn't know what to do with? It's a very complex issue and I don't think it's necessarily a new player versus vet problem. It seems like more of a linear progression, end game content, and psychology of all players issue. Luckily for us, as +Nyx mentioned, there are solutions in the works for many of these challenges.
Re: Economic Downturn
Ayik wrote:Last day i was killing Balrons, because i wanted the gold to be able to replace some of the old items i had from my newbie fase. After killing 4-5 Balrons, wich took me quite a while and wasnt easy.. but i managed, because for my character level the are exactly what i should be doing. So after killing a few Balrons another player arrives.
I said Hello too him, and without returning greetings... he started telling me how my Mules where too weak too fight Balrons.. and that they would die.. so because of that HE would be doing in the Balrons now.
I tried too fight for the spawn... but he was simply much stronger then me.. and upon inspecting he was loaded with about 8 relayed bonecrushers etc... almost 3 shotting Balrons.
If someone really told you that at a Balron spot...Lol...I dunno what to say about that other than....What a rude person...But, it is also to be said not everyone is nice, not everyone cares to give correct information to players. Some will even say something nice and false, rather than be truthful and not put the feelings first to be honest. But that.....Is just arrogant for someone to say to a new player. A lot of vets get on players with pets, but most of us started with pets.
They could just do what a lot of us do....Go to gauntlet someone with pets u don't wanna wait for the pets go keep up...Leave the gauntlet....Same situation at champs.
Also +Nyx didn't seem to be flaming you or calling you anything negative on that post to me. I think she was just explaining the way it rolls and how sometimes its not always nice or appreciated by staff (basically the way they treated you). Another thing that comes to mind is when we say "vet" stuff.....
If/when we have vet areas to farm.....How do you calculate yourself as a veteran? Good gear? Account Age? Real Age and Maturity? So to have an area taped off for "Veteran" can mislead and upset. You can do the long way like a lot of us and work your way up to insta-heal/tons of HP/str over the course of a year or two or three...Or you can literally donate euros to purchase your way up....Does that make you not a "Vet"? To some yes...but to others no.....You had to earn those euros for donating so the lines become difficult to determine. I personally don't farm any balrons and didn't much in my years here. Others see that as the faster way for gold. Some players get territorial.
Heck I got told a few days ago I am greedy because I did ICE champ without calling it out in World Chat.....I don't see why it is my responsibility to ask others to come to a champ I am doing, and will most likely be almost done with by the time they get there. That is what we have guilds for. You want to tell your guild about it, good for ya, more power to ya.
To be fair. I agree with this for the most part...but what you going to do when they just decided to use a pathfinding system on EUO or just move one at a time long super STEAM/Razor setups....Removing one always creates another.Melkor wrote:P.S. As for people recalling around, running scripts and watching TV. I fully agree and I don't like that. I would like to see no recalling in dungeons allowed, to solve this annoying problem. It would also help stop the many of the afk levelers.