Unfair jail sentence

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Unbeliever
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Re: Unfair jail sentence

Post by Unbeliever »

I avoided posting in this thread on purpose at first because I didn't want to be seen as either an instigator or someone butting their nose in where it wasn't wanted. Since it's become a full-fledged discussion though, I'll share my random thoughts.

First off, +Nyx and +Veritas - it has been building up for a while and now needs to be said - I'm seriously impressed with your cool and logical posts! Makes for great reading. +V, thanks so much for the slick Avengers reference - biggest LOL of the day. :)

Second, some of what you've said, +Nyx, rings so true.... I've never been a UO server GM or admin but I know people and I sympathize.

"We'd love it if everyone behaved like adults and followed the rules, but that just isn't human nature, and that's even more true on a video game." -- I say all the time, you can take the people out of Felucca but you can't take the Fel out of some people.

"Not that you'll hear it from a buddy who got jailed, no, you'll only hear how they shouldn't have been jailed in the first place and we were so mean." -- several friends of mine who are Corrections Officers say all the time, everyone in jail is innocent - just ask them.

"Nearly every single time I have been very kind and given someone a break on their tasks, they spit it back in my face later with entitlement and drama when they violate the rules again..." -- first job I ever had, I learned the same thing in my first week. I was a new cashier, didn't know what I was doing, cut a customer a break on cookies to avoid making them wait forever. Shocked the hell out of me when they came back a few days later and wanted the same deal again. Taught me everything I needed to know when I said 'I can't do that again but I DO know how to do it right now' and she went straight to a manager to complain about me and dime me out about the previous favor.

Third, I think the AFK system is more than fair - I've been hit with the captcha and GM questions and had no problems with either. It's totally necessary that there be a system in place and this one works. What's more, the punishment makes good sense. Players can deal with it in their own way and in their own time and it drives the point home well. If anything is not fair, it's not caring about losing a weapon and the ability to play on Excelsior until you've already gambled them away.

Fourth and last, I've read through old punishment rage threads (Favorite title: "There will be repercussions") and they always end the same way: with staff clubbing the offender into submission with the Cudgel of Logic and Evidence. For Pete's sake, learn that taking a bad case to the forums is NOT going to make it any better.
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Annachie
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Re: Unfair jail sentence

Post by Annachie »

Personally, I've had trouble seeing +R's questions when I was paying 100% attention. Let alone when I wasn't. But then I've only seen them three times now.
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Nass Karr
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Re: Unfair jail sentence

Post by Nass Karr »

OK, I'm going to make this my last post about this situation with some constructive criticism. Other than the last time which I admitted to being afk. I responded to the GM before I was transported to jail. The first time I saw +Requime as a white lich. The second time when I was at my computer killing a boss the only thing I saw that was weird was 2 sparkly things in the boss room I was in. I've never seen the afk check other than what pops up when you're gathering resources. If it happened the first time I missed it because I'd never seen it. Please post a screenshot of the afk check that occurs when killing spawns.This will help players who have never seen it. I assume after reading some of these posts that the sparkly things I saw during the Halloween incident were part of the afk check. What I'd like to know is the afk check before the sparkly things, during, or when you're about to be sent to jail? As I said in an earlier post, I saw the sparkly things after I dispatched the boss. I didn't see the GM until after I saw the sparklies, and I definately never saw the afk check. Please lock this thread if you like. And as I said earlier I'm not blaming the admins for anything other than what they believe happened. It just didn't happen the way it's being portrayed.
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+Requiem
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Re: Unfair jail sentence

Post by +Requiem »

I will post the screen shots of your first two offenses. You've already admitted guilt for this last one, so these speak for themselves.
First offense - old style name of a lich question
First offense - old style name of a lich question
Nass Karr1.jpg (568.68 KiB) Viewed 4508 times
2nd offense - afk check tool
2nd offense - afk check tool
Nass Karr2.jpg (560.82 KiB) Viewed 4507 times
journal entry from the actual afk check.
journal entry from the actual afk check.
Nass Karr 3.jpg (128.31 KiB) Viewed 4512 times
Now, as you can see - 1st offense no response within 60 seconds = afk violation. As i recall, you had just killed and claimed a mobs corpse.

2nd offense, I showed you what the AFK check looked like, and there is most of our conversation, and you saying you understood. This was offense number 2, because the afk tool was new, and i gave you the benefit of the doubt for not seeing it. +Nyx further spoke with you, and told you that you would receive the 3rd level penalty if you were caught again within 3 months, even though she decided to uphold my decision to give you the benefit of the doubt.

And, the journal entry showing many questions in a 60 second period, with no answer and *GASP* no spell spam! You were not
in fact at my keyboard healing my pets when a GM said I was AFK.
You can see where you're healing the pets just above (which was right after the battle you were fighting for your life in).
You can also see 10 or 11 questions without the spell spam, indicating you were not healing your pets. At the time, my tool was set to spam the question every 5 seconds for 60 seconds. I have since changed it to do it every 3 seconds.

edit: had to edit picture for non relevant information
Last edited by +Requiem on Fri Dec 20, 2013 3:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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+Requiem
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Re: Unfair jail sentence

Post by +Requiem »

Nass Karr wrote:OK, I'm going to make this my last post about this situation with some constructive criticism. Other than the last time which I admitted to being afk. I responded to the GM before I was transported to jail. The first time I saw +Requime as a white lich. The second time when I was at my computer killing a boss the only thing I saw that was weird was 2 sparkly things in the boss room I was in. I've never seen the afk check other than what pops up when you're gathering resources. If it happened the first time I missed it because I'd never seen it. Please post a screenshot of the afk check that occurs when killing spawns.This will help players who have never seen it. I assume after reading some of these posts that the sparkly things I saw during the Halloween incident were part of the afk check. What I'd like to know is the afk check before the sparkly things, during, or when you're about to be sent to jail? As I said in an earlier post, I saw the sparkly things after I dispatched the boss. I didn't see the GM until after I saw the sparklies, and I definately never saw the afk check. Please lock this thread if you like. And as I said earlier I'm not blaming the admins for anything other than what they believe happened. It just didn't happen the way it's being portrayed.

Also, to answer your question. The afk check tool spams a question many times over the course of 60 seconds, at certain intervals. During this time, some effect (i used the sparkles for a while, now I am using a blue flame, and i will probably switch it again soon) is blinking on and off all around you, to call your attention, because something is happening. I don't have a current screen shot of the afk check in action, only after. I would say most everyone else (who is not afk) answers the question in the time allowed, even if there is some confusion as to whats going on at first. This is mainly the first time someone gets checked, and they aren't expecting it, or just haven't seen it before.
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Johnny Warren
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Re: Unfair jail sentence

Post by Johnny Warren »

You have to be strict on the AFKers.
+Requiem wrote:Yes, I said close, as in the question was 8 - 8, and you answered 8 + 8.

When its a math problem, i have been lenient on the answers. (Such as allowing 16, when the answer is 8 )
BTW pretty sure its 0...
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Kevan
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Re: Unfair jail sentence

Post by Kevan »

+Nyx wrote:Kevan, you seem to post frequently with these idealistic thoughts, and while it would be very nice if the little world we have here on Excelsior was that friendly and truthful and huggly, it isn't the reality.
That's the first time I've been called idealistic, or inferred that I was an optimist. It's not really true, though. You'll come to know me over time a bit better, for good or for worse depending on how you take my opinions. I'm more of a process engineer with a huge emphasis on efficiency. I'm a business owner and I'm always looking for ways to improve on processes. EVERYTHING can be improved upon, it doesn't matter how many hours it's been debated on, studied or otherwise. It can always get better. I respect your differences in opinion when they come up. I don't take it personally. I'm very much a realist though. I have a love-hate relationship with people in general. I love the interaction but I detest the uglier sides of human nature. I dislike classless, hurtful, uneducated people who drag down people around them, but I appreciate the balance they provide to society.

No matter how much anyone sees or doesn't see behind the scenes, it doesn't invalidate ideas. If someone like myself, or someone else, provides you with an idea and it doesn't jive with your everyday experiences, then by all means, don't consider it. But be careful not to stifle creativity. I would never hire "yes men" to run my business because it would never foster change. If someone sees an area for improvement or disagrees with a process, please tell me and we can discuss it. I would never want everyone to jog along status quo. I want things constantly better, and I want ideas as much from the person who started last week as the guy who started 6 years ago.

Anyway, consider this a primer into my mindset. Don't take offense if I give you opinions on how to do things a bit differently. For every 10 opinions I give you, if you find 1 thing that can improve the shard or your policies, then it's good for everyone. I like it here and want to see it do well. Anyone not interested in PVP would say this is the best PVE shard around, no contest.
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Re: Unfair jail sentence

Post by seoman »

Kevan wrote:I have a love-hate relationship with people in general. I love the interaction but I detest the uglier sides of human nature.

MMOs are a Catch-22

The best thing about an MMO is the people.
The worst thing about an MMO is the people.
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fingers
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Re: Unfair jail sentence

Post by fingers »

qbf wrote:You have to be strict on the AFKers.
+Requiem wrote:Yes, I said close, as in the question was 8 - 8, and you answered 8 + 8.

When its a math problem, i have been lenient on the answers. (Such as allowing 16, when the answer is 8 )
BTW pretty sure its 0...
Haha! Caught that too, but i decided to be lenient! :lol:
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+Veritas
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Re: Unfair jail sentence

Post by +Veritas »

Kevan:
I'm very much a realist though. I have a love-hate relationship with people in general. I love the interaction but I detest the uglier sides of human nature. I dislike classless, hurtful, uneducated people who drag down people around them, but I appreciate the balance they provide to society.
I have close to the same view, except I call it "spice" not "balance". Another thing I would add to that statement is my dislike of people who act friendly towards you in public for image but then say what they really feel (usually accompanied by fabrication) while in the shadows.

Staff run into that more often than you might think.

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+Veritas
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Re: Unfair jail sentence

Post by +Veritas »

fingers wrote:
qbf wrote:You have to be strict on the AFKers.
+Requiem wrote:Yes, I said close, as in the question was 8 - 8, and you answered 8 + 8.

When its a math problem, i have been lenient on the answers. (Such as allowing 16, when the answer is 8 )
BTW pretty sure its 0...
Haha! Caught that too, but i decided to be lenient! :lol:
8 is the new 0. Just need to remember to not give someone 8 tasks in rock jail.

+V
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+Requiem
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Re: Unfair jail sentence

Post by +Requiem »

qbf wrote:You have to be strict on the AFKers.
+Requiem wrote:Yes, I said close, as in the question was 8 - 8, and you answered 8 + 8.

When its a math problem, i have been lenient on the answers. (Such as allowing 16, when the answer is 8 )
BTW pretty sure its 0...
This is why I'm lenient on my answers ;) *sigh* I'm bad at math.
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Re: Unfair jail sentence

Post by seoman »

Well the important part isn't what the answer is, it's that they answered.
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Gaara
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Re: Unfair jail sentence

Post by Gaara »

seoman wrote:Well the important part isn't what the answer is, it's that they answered.
Agreed, as long as one can clearly tell that it's not just the script spammin' it :woot:
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seoman
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Re: Unfair jail sentence

Post by seoman »

If the question is 8+8 and someone answers "yo", pretty sure it's not a script, :lol:
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