Doom Gauntlet - questions

[Muolke]

I have a few questions which seem to be the same questions other players have but nobody really have a factual answer to. I've spent some time reading thru old forum posts but things are still very unclear and we don't know if things changed.

Colibri or Arden we would love some input from you -

1. Does luck effect the artifact drop rate? I've read previous posts from +N saying that it doesn't considerably raise drop rates...so does that mean it does raise drop rates but just not by a lot? How much more likely are you to get a drop if you have 0 luck versus max 7200 luck?

2. Does running Gauntlet with more people decrease drop rates? Many of us have seen substantially more artifacts when running solo compared to when running in groups.

3. Is the drop rate constant or is it based on a progressive system that increases as you kill more and more mobs without a drop?

4. Are drops set on a specific time of the day or based on how many drops other players have had? Or is it strictly on an individual player basis?

5. Any chance you can create a system like Tokuno where you can turn in let's say 5-6 artifacts for a different random artifact? Seems like 90% of the items are kind of useless. Either that or change the other artifacts to have different value and/or purpose.

I'm obviously not asking to know exact figures etc but just trying to get a better understanding of the process. I'm sure many other players would also like to be better educated on how this all works.

Thank you!

[Johnny Warren]

There's a reason you can't find much info on how luck works here, the +'s, for whatever reason, never answer questions in forum or in game pages about luck. It's all kept very secretive.

From what I understand luck has 0 effect in the gauntlet. 0 effect on item property drops. 0 effect in all non-loot situations (casino, lottery, raffles).

It definitely effects bio engineering and there is some evidence to suggest that it effect ilsh and tok drops.

One thing I can guarantee is that the +'s won't tell you if luck helps in the gaunt, that question has been asked more times than I can count in the 9 years I've been here and has never been answered.

As to the other questions, I find I get better drops when soloing, but given the small data set, probably only 500 runs or so, it's difficult to tell if that is statistically significant.

Some runs I go in and on the first run get a top end arty, other times I'll do 30 runs and end with 7 valueless arties. So I think it's pretty much real life luck with the way the RNG's decide what u get.

[Muolke]

Here's a quote from a post made by +N a few years back:

"Luck does not noticeably affect gauntlet artifact drops, and it has diminishing returns"

Then from +C:

"From the last time i was studying the formulas, I can say that luck is not linear - the doom artifact chance is logarithmic, combined with all sorts of variables. That means that increasing luck from 500 to 1000, isn't the same as 2000 to 2500. In rough estimate, getting your luck to about 1500-2000, makes the most difference for the effort that you put in. Having 5000 luck is still better than 4000, in most cases, but it's a lot more effort, and the benefit you get is less significant. "

So if Luck had 0 effect on drops wouldn't they have just said "No, luck has no effect"? Seems to me like luck does have some type of effect...just not sure how much or how little. No?

Seems to me like luck is under used if it's only good for a few things. It should be incorporated a bit more into the game...especially at a cost of 100ED per 100 points.

[Wil]

1. Does luck effect the artifact drop rate? I've read previous posts from +N saying that it doesn't considerably raise drop rates...so does that mean it does raise drop rates but just not by a lot? How much more likely are you to get a drop if you have 0 luck versus max 7200 luck?

Don't know for sure but see http://www.uoex.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=7940

[Muolke]

1. Does luck effect the artifact drop rate? I've read previous posts from +N saying that it doesn't considerably raise drop rates...so does that mean it does raise drop rates but just not by a lot? How much more likely are you to get a drop if you have 0 luck versus max 7200 luck?

Don't know for sure but see http://www.uoex.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=7940

Yeah I read that entire thread and there's some good info but there just isn't a solid answer. I think that with 100 luck deeds costing 5 million gold each one should know exactly what the benefit is. I get that there should be some "mystery" but the basics should be known.

[Animol]

The major problem with Doom is that shards just looove messing with the Gauntlet formulas for God knows what reason, therefore even if you get a straight answer on one server, it probably does not apply to your case.

[Yuki]

So the whole Quote from +Colibri

Well, explaining *how* luck effects all the different systems, that are affected by luck, would be a lot to write about, also there needs to be some mystery in the game which I would not like to reveal.

What i can say is that each of the systems has a different formula for calculating the luck (doom artifacts, paragon chests, extracting DNA, ...) so, for example: having more luck might not effect your chance of getting a doom artie, but might effect the DNA success chance.

From the last time i was studying the formulas, I can say that luck is not linear - the doom artifact chance is logarithmic, combined with all sorts of variables. That means that increasing luck from 500 to 1000, isn't the same as 2000 to 2500. In rough estimate, getting your luck to about 1500-2000, makes the most difference for the effort that you put in. Having 5000 luck is still better than 4000, in most cases, but it's a lot more effort, and the benefit you get is less significant.

I hope I didn't get anything wrong when i was exploring the scripts that calculate luck, but from what i seen, there is no luck cap.

To me this seems to be as straight an answer as you can ask for. The doom arti chance is logarithmic so it will quickly approach a certain % then begin to taper off. While it will continue to increase with every boss you kill, the increase becomes insignificant. Also since +C specifically said logarithmic, I'm guessing you actually start at a negative % chance drop (has anyone ever had 2 arties drop in a row).

As to how luck affects (why does everyone say "effect", is this a Euro thing?) the drop chance, I'm guessing it's just one of the "all sorts of variables" that get factored into the equation so there is an effect and the 1500-2000 point is where you get the most impact.

[Muolke]

The major problem with Doom is that shards just looove messing with the Gauntlet formulas for God knows what reason, therefore even if you get a straight answer on one server, it probably does not apply to your case.

Yes i've seen the chat about the standard RunUO code and that makes it very straight forward, the problem is that with a few keyboard entries they can take Luck out of the equation or change the formula dramatically.

My thought on the subject is that since Luck is so expensive (basically 1 ED per point) that players should know exactly where the advantage is. It's like having a slayer weapon but not knowing what type of slayer it is...it's a secret. Some mobs will take more damage but you won't be able to see how much damage you do to mobs anymore so you're basically guessing.

If luck cost 100k per 100 luck deed then it wouldn't be a big deal...but at 100ED per 100 luck...that's 50k gold per point of luck. At 7,200 luck that's a cost of 360,000,000...basically the cost of 3 Titan Hammers.

[Yuki]

I can tell you this. There was a noticeable difference in doom drops for me when I went from 0 to 1000 luck. Now I’m at 5100 in my regular gear and I don’t notice much of a difference from 1000 luck. I’ve always ran doom solo since while in a group, it seems like we get more arties all together but I personally get less.

I doubt any admin is going to give you a cheat sheet on how to min/max luck. A lot of us enjoy some of the mystery. As to it being expensive, yes max luck is worth 3 titan hammers and it’s usefulness is probably just as subjective as the 15 extra strength you would get from 3 hammers over bone crushers. At the end of the day, it’s all about the bling factor.

[Muolke]

I can tell you this. There was a noticeable difference in doom drops for me when I went from 0 to 1000 luck. Now I’m at 5100 in my regular gear and I don’t notice much of a difference from 1000 luck. I’ve always ran doom solo since while in a group, it seems like we get more arties all together but I personally get less.

I doubt any admin is going to give you a cheat sheet on how to min/max luck. A lot of us enjoy some of the mystery. As to it being expensive, yes max luck is worth 3 titan hammers and it’s usefulness is probably just as subjective as the 15 extra strength you would get from 3 hammers over bone crushers. At the end of the day, it’s all about the bling factor.

I don't think it's a cheat sheet at all. I'm not asking for exact percentages of what the drops are. Even if I were...it's still not a cheat sheet. It's like knowing what the odds of busting at blackjack are when you have a 12...just making an informed decision with the relevant information at hand. It would suffice to know for certain IF luck does indeed impact gauntlet drops. At least that would be progress.

[Opopanax]

+Arden has definitely said in world chat that when he was looking at the effect of luck in doom mechanics it did have a role, but that for it to have maximum effect on arti drops you would need something silly like 60K luck (I don't remember the actual figure, but it was extremely high and way beyond what is possible to wear), and even then we don't know what its "maximum effect" would be. I think that its role is probably fairly minor, but maybe it's difficult to see the effect unless you are doing a lot of runs and have a large data set?

[Muolke]

+Arden has definitely said in world chat that when he was looking at the effect of luck in doom mechanics it did have a role, but that for it to have maximum effect on arti drops you would need something silly like 60K luck (I don't remember the actual figure, but it was extremely high and way beyond what is possible to wear), and even then we don't know what its "maximum effect" would be. I think that its role is probably fairly minor, but maybe it's difficult to see the effect unless you are doing a lot of runs and have a large data set?

Correct, the maximum luck is 7600. I did read in a previous post about some type of randomizer that lowers or increases drop rates for a defined amount of time. Yesterday I went 8 runs without a single drop and today got 14 drops in 12 runs including drops 3 mobs in a row. I do have 4,000 luck at the moment and that may help further increase drops but it looks like it has more to do with being there at the right time rather then anything else. I just with there was some clarity and not some top secret nuclear codes that nobody knows about.

[Nick]

Yes, the number one thing that affects drop rates is the random "hot times" and "cold times" IMO. I will usually go down with 25-50 sculls and do a few rounds and if there are no drops log out and go play something else. Comeback and do a few more rounds and if I get a drop keep going until I hit a 3 run dry spell then log again. I usually average 1 drop per 1.5 rounds over 50-100 runs.

As far as I can tell what your arty drop is is completely random the game does no know the SOT is better then the Ring of the elements what ever the random spinner stops on is what drops.

+ team members have said for sure that your drop rate is exactly the same with a group as it is solo. That maybe the intent however, IMO that is not how it works for some reason you have a greatly lower drop rate individually as a member of a group even with 2-3 monsters in spawn. In fact when you have a 2-3 monster spawn the drop rate as a group is on par (or possibly even lower) then when I am doing it solo from my experience (maybe people are lying and saying they didn't get a drop when they did but I doubt it, maybe every group event I've been part of or hosted has been during a cold time but, I doubt it)

Just my experience and opinion

Nick of old

[Possum12]

Scary, but my "detailed & indepth" research tends to agree with Nick.

Well anyway pretty much did my first run in gauntlet today - did 19 runs with my brother.
I had 4625 luck, my brother had 715 luck.

I only got 1 arti drop in total (run 17) & was a garbage one.

My brother got 8 arti drops, 1 was a SoT. Six of these came in runs 15-17, 3 in run 16.

#Note - it was in run 16 where I was obliged to put some coin in the swear jar

Only a small sample running through I know but still not what I had expected with the much better luck.

Was still a nice experience to do a few runs for first time.

[Johnny Warren]

Totally agree with what Nick said. In my experience, that's exactly how it works.