Excelsior

As I'm wrapping up the big list of technical fixes behind the scenes, it's a good opportunity to do some housecleaning in the Codex.

Based on the title, if anyone's worried that AFK rules would change completely (to allow AFK playing), the rule overall stays. I watch other shards, and overall how changes in technology affect our lives, and it's really important for the community and the economy that your character's actions have "human input", even if that means just watching it on the 2nd monitor.

A bit of history:
When we started the shard, there was no AFK rule. After a few months, the rule was to respond within 10 minutes, just to prevent people from macroing while sleeping or at work. Btw, those were times when we didn't have mobile data, and even wifi in public places was usually unreliable, so when I went away from home, there was usually no way to check my character or start/stop the macro. Then it turned out, you can get a lot more resources by farming monsters, so we reduced the response time for fighting/leveling to 1 minute. But every now and then, someone is AFK doing some activity, which is actually profitable... and it's a procedure of getting it thought-thru and posted on the codex as one of the forbidden things. And sooner or later, something else that's macroable and profitable, will be found. A couple of years ago, a player was recalling around to check for fallen houses, and at the time I was considering whether that's legit or not - the argument was, that he is at the keyboard when he actually loots stuff from the ground, so he's not actually breaking the rules. But actually, it's this recalling around that makes the profit.

The change
Instead of listing all the things that are forbidden, it would make sense to invert the rule. One has to be at the keyboard if doing any action (clicking on items, moving around, clicking on gumps/menus, speaking). Whenever I've seen someone with a macro running, it was for some kind of gain/profit. There would be exceptions for training skills, and they would have to be defined in a way, so that I can script the conditions right in, and don't have to check the folks who are doing something that's whitelisted (perhaps, whether it's fighting a trainer, either in the training room or a private one).

This will simplify our checks. With the new staff member we're going to be much more consistent with AFK checks, and over time I intend to also script them, so that we can gradually let automation take over this. (with an occasional manual check, to cover any blind spots that the automated systems can't). Well, there there are anti-AFK captcha systems out there (on runuo/servuo forums), though popular server-side scripts tend to have a client-side counterpart... also, things like the captcha and "click the 3 potions that are of the same color" can be broken, and aren't reliable enough.

This would go for public chat announcements as well (selling/buying, come check out the XYZABC shop...)

While on the subject, I'm going to simplify/restructure the Codex a bit. The main page of the codex will likely stay more or less similar. Though this page here, will likely be completely rewritten: http://uoex.net/codex/penalties. The penalties will be simplified a bit, but will remain progressive: repeat offenders will get an increased penalty, but if enough time has passed since the last rule breaking, the penalty is also reduced.

Recalling around is also related to this issue. When doing AFK checks, players sometimes recall around so fast it's hard to even trigger the AFK check on them. It's one of the anomalies of the game, being able to to hold down so many spawn spots at the same time, so I have also been thinking about adding a gradual cooldown to recalling. Recalling a few times would still work witout any delay, and after consistent recalling it would build up, first a few seconds, up to 10-30 seconds cooldown between recalls (same goes for sacred journey, and all versions of instant travel).


Overall, we're consolidating the two Anti-AFK systems (the automated gathering captcha, and manual everything else) into a rule, or few rules, that are easy to understand, make sense of as a whole, as well as to enforce.

So, I'm looking for your input on the subject of AFK:
- what activities should be allowed to be done AFK?
- How frequently being checked is still OK, and when does it get annoying?
- Care to share an AFK-related story from another shard, or some other game?
- Have you ever been jailed for being AFK on Excelsior, how did that go?
- Any AFK-related wisdom that you'd like to share with the rest of the shard?

Answer this question before you try to answer the others. It'll help figure out sort of structure the AFK check should take.

Is AFK away from the keyboard or is AFK not paying attention to the game screen?

Should I plan to "watch paint dry" while recall-mining or is it sufficient that I can promptly respond when the window beeps to let me know I have an AFK check?

I completely understand the need for an AFK system check for skills or actions that can generate a profit.

But I would hate to see any such system to include skill training or actions that do not generate a reasonable profit. Now I know an argument can be made for several skills either way as to weather or not a profit is being gained.

I will give three examples of script/macroing and how I see their effect on profit.

1) Resource gathering, weapon leveling, monster hunting.
Actions like these should must certainly be done with human input and not meant to be done when the player isnt in direct connect with their character.

2) Skill training. I see no reason to prevent or limit players from running scripts or macros to assist them in actions meant for the purpose of training skill. (Though there would be a couple exceptions, (i.e. Begging, Fishing, Mining, etc)

3) Scripted Announcements. I'm on the fence with these. I often find them annoying when I see the same announcement every hour for days or weeks on end. (Isn't this what the town crier is for?)
Many of them are sale or buying annoucements or advertisements for vendors. IMO both would fall under profitable to me.
We have a town crier, and uoex.vendor site already in effect to cover both those features already.

Aside said, on the fence with this, for I understand the need to ask for buyers or sellers for quick sales, or new items on a vendor etc. So IMO these kind of annoucements are ok, if done by a player that is active in game at the time. *Even if a script is being used for the announcement, the player is still active in the game.
But should be discouraged when AFK for an extended time. (i.e. When in another room, sleeping, at work, etc)


Please keep us updated with your thoughts and/or actions you are thinking, or implamenting.

I would hope that any sort of skill gaining that does not involve collecting anything (such as casting the same spell over and over) or repeatedly stealing the same thing over and over (to level stealing for example) would remain without an AFK check while things that can permanently gain you gold/items (fishing, mining, begging, killing monsters, lumberjacking, etc) would want to make sure someone is behind the computer. Watching a Youtube video or something, I don't see the harm, but not just over nighting or completely AFK at work or something. That just starts to break the economy.

When I was fishing, I think I got an AFK check maybe... once every four hours? I was surprised it was that little, actually. I thought it would be every hour or so.

On the [c announcements - I have no issue with them and think they should be allowed to remain.

For whatever reason, some people are very sensitive to chat announcements. As if it somehow hindered them. That's something i'll never understand. Having said that, can we just simplify the announcement rule to 1 announcement every 2 hours and call it a day? Instead of just once per hour and a certain number of lines in between? This would also likely reduce the number of times someone sees the same announcement. For example, if you play for 3 hours you'll likely see the announcement once instead of 2-3 times. It's still 12 announcements in a 24 hour period but bigger breaks and a rule that's more cut and dry.

As far as the whole AFK thing - yes, I was jailed once for being AFK as I ran to the door to get the pizza and came back right as I was teleported into jail. Whatever...it was my bad. Next time i'll yell at the pizza guy to wait a second while I hide and turn off my auto attack...LOL!

I think one of the rules that should be revisited is the whole not having to respond to someone rule. While I still support not having to respond to someone saying "hi" or some other type of greeting I do think there should be a requirement to communicate with another player is there's a case of having to share a spawn or there's the perception of being AFK or kill stealing.

Now I know some will say "well what's the perception of being AFK?". If I show up at a spawn, and try to communicate with you multiple times and you don't respond, coupled with moving in loops over and over then that would lead someone to believe that they may be AFK. It's super annoying. This is especially true at Balron spawns and Citadel.

Perhaps there should be an automated AFK system set up where another player can report a player they believe to be AFK and the system can then generate an AFK check. You can limit it to one every hour or so in order to prevent other players from spamming the AFK checks just to be a pain.

Lastly, I believe AFK farming has been exploited as of late because it was only +C running things and as more staff comes onboard it will decrease. It's like having a speed limit on a road that you know has no cops on it...many will speed. But if you know that there's a good chance there's a cop along the way, you'll follow the speed limit. Enforcement is a key component of respecting rules.

Muolke wrote:For whatever reason, some people are very sensitive to chat announcements. As if it somehow hindered them. That's something i'll never understand. Having said that, can we just simplify the announcement rule to 1 announcement every 2 hours and call it a day? Instead of just once per hour and a certain number of lines in between? This would also likely reduce the number of times someone sees the same announcement. For example, if you play for 3 hours you'll likely see the announcement once instead of 2-3 times. It's still 12 announcements in a 24 hour period but bigger breaks and a rule that's more cut and dry.

i am one of those script spammers so im not a disinterested party BUT i think the main problem is some (me included) people just like to complain. once an hour 12 times a day is not gonna destroy the game experience.

Muolke wrote:I think one of the rules that should be revisited is the whole not having to respond to someone rule. While I still support not having to respond to someone saying "hi" or some other type of greeting I do think there should be a requirement to communicate with another player is there's a case of having to share a spawn or there's the perception of being AFK or kill stealing.

i think forcing people to respond to anyone that asks for proof that they are at keyboard will encourage harasment and resentment which leads to drama. there is also the problem of ignore lists or players who have simply opted out of pm system.

Muolke wrote:Perhaps there should be an automated AFK system set up where another player can report a player they believe to be AFK and the system can then generate an AFK check. You can limit it to one every hour or so in order to prevent other players from spamming the AFK checks just to be a pain.

thats a great idea!

Muolke wrote:Lastly, I believe AFK farming has been exploited as of late because it was only +C running things and as more staff comes onboard it will decrease. It's like having a speed limit on a road that you know has no cops on it...many will speed. But if you know that there's a good chance there's a cop along the way, you'll follow the speed limit. Enforcement is a key component of respecting rules.

truth!

I personally, when I am AFKing my buy script, post it once every 3 hours. That is 8 times a day. If anybody complains that every three hours is spam... they are just looking to be offended to make drama.
There has been a big problem with some players hogging the Balrons afk. I could tell you how to tell for sure.. but they might find a way to fix it in the script.
I like the "report to spawn an afk check" idea. If it is codable, I think it would solve a lot of the problems.

for the balrons someone suggested to not allow any kind of recalling in general area. scripters could still use rails of course but it would slow them down a bit at least.

culichi wrote:for the balrons someone suggested to not allow any kind of recalling in general area. scripters could still use rails of course but it would slow them down a bit at least.

I like this idea - make it so you can't recall inside TK just like you can't inside of Fire dungeon.

Wil wrote:Answer this question before you try to answer the others. It'll help figure out sort of structure the AFK check should take.

Is AFK away from the keyboard or is AFK not paying attention to the game screen?

Should I plan to "watch paint dry" while recall-mining or is it sufficient that I can promptly respond when the window beeps to let me know I have an AFK check?

i would like to have that clarified too, I spent a lot of time scripting macros while playing because i like coding, (That's why i'm playing this game in first way, to spend somewhere to improve my coding and my english).

If while My character is Mining I have to spent my only 2 hours a day looking at it like a dummy, while i can't do anything else like reading the forums, reviewing vendors at web, etc.. this would change a lot for me.

While i'm playing always, i do checks on my screen almost every 3-5 minutes.

Mansonjr wrote:

Wil wrote:Answer this question before you try to answer the others. It'll help figure out sort of structure the AFK check should take.

Is AFK away from the keyboard or is AFK not paying attention to the game screen?

Should I plan to "watch paint dry" while recall-mining or is it sufficient that I can promptly respond when the window beeps to let me know I have an AFK check?

i would like to have that clarified too, I spent a lot of time scripting macros while playing because i like coding, (That's why i'm playing this game in first way, to spend somewhere to improve my coding and my english).

If while My character is Mining I have to spent my only 2 hours a day looking at it like a dummy, while i can't do anything else like reading the forums, reviewing vendors at web, etc.. this would change a lot for me.

While i'm playing always, i do checks on my screen almost every 3-5 minutes.

If you get an AFK check, you have 60 seconds to respond of you'll be jailed. The Codex says that you have to actively monitor the game and if your presence is checked you have 60 seconds to reply. If you check every 3-5 minutes and you get an AFK check...you'll come back to the game with a slow llama next to you ready to carry some stones.

I was jailed one time for AFK mob hunting but was not AFK. I dont use any AFK scripting i was watching movie on tv and had my hand on my mouse wheel up to target wheel down to attack over and over in same spot not moving around. Yes reamer and healer script are running causing spell spamming above head were the message apeared but i missed the AFK check and was jailed. was i doing anything illegal? as soon as i was moved i instantly messaged asking why i was moved the +admin (i wont name) dint want to hear it and i did jail time.

So If i was not scripting and not AFK but wasent looking directly at the screen and it was my hand targeting and attacking should i be jailed?

I think a great way to do a AFK check is would be to automatically port the person to a room disable all spells being cast, do a simple math problem "that does not show up in journal" cuz it can be easily scripted to answer question, they have 30 seconds to answer it. If fail then jail if answered correctly then ported right back were they came from. reason for the porting is its noticeable compared to a little message above head that always has spells being cast above it.

do this 1 or 2 times a hour on a random timer.

reason i dont level weapons or hunt much anymore is cuz its boring if i could hunt like i do and watch a movie on other screen or tv while im still wheeling up and wheeling down i would and i would enjoy the game more.

I think the current afk checking is not enough.

I like the idea of the player requested AFK check on someone but with big limits like 2 or 3 uses a day. not more then 1 every 3 hours or so and not on same person.

The current afk system and or lack of needs to be changed ive know people who are sleeping leveling weapons how i know cuz they said they are going to bed but you see them hunting and they dont respond and you know they are afk cuz in like 6 hours later they say "good morning and look at my weapon now" and it makes me very mad that people are allowed to do this.

What i think would help the best would be more +admins i know how hard it is for just 1 person monitoring everything all the time.

+Colibri wrote: Recalling a few times would still work witout any delay, and after consistent recalling it would build up, first a few seconds, up to 10-30 seconds cooldown between recalls (same goes for sacred journey, and all versions of instant travel).

I actually like this idea it is a neat fix to the gathering/hunting recall scripts. For clarity I am a heavy scripted recall hunter, this would effect me greatly (in a negative way).

+Colibri wrote: Overall, we're consolidating the two Anti-AFK systems (the automated gathering captcha, and manual everything else) into a rule, or few rules, that are easy to understand, make sense of as a whole, as well as to enforce.

So, I'm looking for your input on the subject of AFK:
- what activities should be allowed to be done AFK?
- How frequently being checked is still OK, and when does it get annoying?

For the first question: I would make it 2 rules: 1) Any macro that does not gain you, or potentially gain, a resource is allowed. Resources include any ingame object or weapon experience (what about achievements? run a macro to walk back and forth to get the moving achievements?). Potentially gain refers to things like stealables. Recalling around to the location of stealables (previously idocs could have fallen into this category) AFK would not be allowed, you are obviously running a script to check for an item which you will then steal whilst at keyboard (or possibly still afk).
2) I would keep the current world chat spam rule as rule number 2.

This keeps it simple. 2 rules, very straightforward. Do you gain a gold piece? a token? a fish? weapon exp? Then you can't do it. It's also only 2 simple rules and covers most bases.

for the second question, I would be happy to be checked hourly, but if the checks are too rigid in their timings, eg some sort of rule like "you won't be checked more than once per hour" then obviously once you have been checked you're in the clear to go take a shower and hang out the laundry before you come back to keyboard. I would write the timing of AFK checks as a rule something like this: You will be checked on average once per hour, but the interval between checks is random. If you are running a macro that gathers a lot of resources, expect a lot of checks.

That one definitely needs some work, an hour might be too long, and more input but I would be happy to see more checks. As I said I recall macro balrons and weapons experience a lot and have only ever been checked half a dozen times in many hours of macroing. This is possibly due to my +10GMT timezone. I passed them all because I am at keyboard but often wish I could get the GM to check the other guys I am sharing spawns with, as such I like the idea of being able to call down an automated AFK check on players once or twice per day or something.

I think the check system could be changed a little to make it more difficult to have your script go "ding ding ding ding!!" when the journal detects your own character speaking above your head. As you hear that, hit pause on your movie, walk over and answer the question. It sounds difficult to do but I like PaPa's idea of it porting you to the AFK check room. you character doesn't say anything but you need to maybe read the brightly coloured book or stone or something that's in front of you and do the task it asks. Eg the book might say: "Move the green rock into the red chest" and all without using the journal so that it is harder to alert the AFKer...

My $0.02

I like the keeping it simple process.

1. You gain a resource (item of any sort), you are at the mercy of an AFK check and potential jail time.
2. Checked roughly once an hour, may be longer, may be shorter. As someone said if it is only once an hour, does that mean you are checked and then you can go afk for 30-40 minutes and be ok?

I have not been checked very often for AFK fighting; I think once to be honest. Though I am not too worried as I do not AFK fight anyways.

As far as watching paint dry; I think you should have up to 1 minute to respond. you should maintain some sort of presence or you are still AFK for the most part. If you get sucked in to your you-tube video or movie and miss the 1 minute AFK check; then jailed.

More staff, to have more AFK checks is ideal. Its not great when some supposed AFK Botters are spending Millions at Auctions. that can be demoralizing.

The main thing is trying to make the AFK check obvious.

Hi everyone,

i read the rules they are clear and understandable. I dont like players who play afk and getting richer by it in millions of gold every time i see them ill report them. Btw i would report my mother too. next thing is if it is proven 100 percent sure that some one did violate the rule first time empthy his bank account. second time take away all his houses and third time ban him from the server. Tah everyone will make sure he isent afk while makeing lots of gold. i dont talk about training of the most skills no i talk about hunting big game all day and night long and let the script run for hours and hours. This has to stop. Follow the rules and be safe by it.