Magic on Excelsior

[Dirtybook]

Hello everyone. As the 1 person who plays a mage avidly on this server, I thought I would put up my thoughts, and beliefs on this subject.

I used to play a mage on the original servers, years ago. It was pretty simple, I used in game key binds, and dragged HP bars to play as a mage. It was tedious at times, but was still enjoyable. Fast forward years later, here on Excelsior, I tried my hand at it again. However this time, the amount of monsters you come across, is a higher volume. So over the time I have been here, I learned how to make use of UOS, which has made my time a lot easier.

I have played full mage, necro/mage, mage/tamer, mage/chiv, and bard/mage. With all these combinations, I have come to a belief, that Magery, does "not" need an upgrade. When I was first here, I asked +C if he will ever allow Slayers to be turned back on with spell books. I am actually starting to agree with his choice to not allow Slayer spell books. The damage would be a bit obscene. As I have played a caster, I have noticed, yes, it can be slower later on, due to casting speeds. However, I have tried my hand at a fighter/bower here, and it defiantly picks up speed, after a few relayers, but before that, it is a bit lack luster. Main reason I believe this is, comes from how slow you swing, or fire a bow. Add to this the often encountered death (or multiple there in), by running into a mob to use a Whirlwind weapon. The bigger issue you may run into, is how often you miss. Later on, with higher equipment, and the advancement of relayers, you rarely miss, and mobs don't kill you for running into them.

Starting out as a mage, is actually a lot more economical and user friendly, than telling someone to gallop as fast as they can to 220 dexterity. Then telling them to use extremely slow weapons. (Yumi and Halberds, ect.) I have heard people even on World Chat ask how can someone make any money when it goes to there bandages and arrows? Which, for the extremely fresh out of the gate player, can be understood. Being a mage, you just need an LRC suit, and you need no arrows, or bandages at that point. Even pennies from heaven can add up. One of the main reasons I say Magery does not need an upgrade, is that if the spell goes off, it does not miss. (Except when it bounces off a Titan Guardian.. jerks...) The spells even have a slight range advantage compared to a Yumi.

For me, I like using what the 64 spell loaded book I carry has to offer. Everything from Poison Field, Paralyze Field, Energy Field, and everything in between, at some point, I use the spell. I have little to no issues taking on a group of Blood Elementals, all 3 of the Blood Dungeons Balron, with any combination I listed above. No weapon, no bandages, just however I feel like playing that day, as a caster. I also am not that hard core about relayers. (Maybe some day, I will want them more than Deco and Yard Wanding) I sit around 165 HP, and 187 SDI. I use just Magery, or a combination of other skills to play. I feel that if Magery got an upgrade, there would be no need for those skills, just like how players that play the 220 dex/chiv route, make almost no use of them.

I have found, that if you play a mage, you still need higher equipment in order to be valid in many areas. Buying GoCs from other players, costs alot more than you would think. I restarted multiple times, (thank you mid-life crisis for starting... ) and I can tell you, 12 to 20 million gold, is required, for all 6 GoC pieces. More than most dexers will ever pay for there basic equipment. I will point out, that even for a mage, relayers will have an extreme effect on how powerful you can become. I can hunt Balron, Lurg, Yamadon, Tsuki Wolves, Blood Elementals, Succubus, and many many more, without the use of relayers.

My final combination, (should I want relayers) will be a combination of a Whirlwind weapon, bard skills, Magery, and a pet or 2. I will eventually gain 220 dex, and will be able to cast magic, with out interruption from the bandages. I also wont need bandages, except for areas I would benefit from it. Like the Seasonal Dungeons, and Boss fights at champs, or Labyrinth. I will never end up needing to play with a Yumi. However, my climb with relayers will be almost identical to everyone else. Just minus the bow. Technically, I will be exactly like everyone else, minus Archery, Chivalry, and 90% of the time, I wont need Healing. (I could put 100 bandages in my pack, and make a [healself key bind, for emergencies.)

The damage and utility of being a mage, is actually quite good. If magical damage scales the way they where intended to do (same as the normal servers), then by the time someone gets to 260-400 SDI, the damage from a Discorded shot, should wipe many monsters out in 1 to 2 strikes. I can almost kill a dragon in 2 hits. I have to throw a Magic Arrow to finish it off, at 187 SDI.

Personally, I don't think Magery needs a boost. It is a labor intensive play style, that I think works for people that prefer thinking through fights. If you want to just sit there, and have your character fight for you (lots of people at champs doing that one), so you can watch television (or whatever people do these days), then don't play a mage. I think that if everyone was meant to be a mage, they would actively be doing it, rather than going straight for the easiest path, of least resistance. Which would be 220 dex/Chiv/and Yumi/WW weapon. I think people should play the way they want, as I have no real issues with people playing that common combination. (Except when I'm out hunting in non Balron/Yamadon Areas, and see a Warp Farmer... that's just annoying... ) I am agenst, "Make Magery Better Again". There is no need for it. It's about play style, and I cannot play a character that does not need to be controlled. It gets boring. (For me at least)

There are plenty of arguments about how if it is not the best, why bother? Well, I have no actual response to that. I enjoy what I enjoy. I can also attest to the fact many people have told me there desire to play a mage, but they wont. I see how people conduct them selves, as a personal choice. If it is to much work, 95% of people (give or take a few %s) wont do it. Even if it's something they would rather be doing.

So, if there is ever a vote on the subject of bettering Magery, and as the person who plays it the most on Excelsior, I say "no". It's fine the way it is. You just have to be active 100% of the time to play it. Thats's the only difference. It's not commonly played, because people don't want to be 100% paying attention to there screen.

Just thought I would share.. good day Excelsior!

[Praise]

Thanks for sharing this. Makes sense to me. Many of us want everything quick and easy.

[Wil]

Starting out as a mage, is actually a lot more economical and user friendly, than telling someone to gallop as fast as they can to 220 dexterity. Then telling them to use extremely slow weapons. (Yumi and Halberds, ect.)

Howdy,

I agree that telling folks to make a bee line for 220 dex is bad advice. Dexxer doesn't become a good build here until you have a few relayers and unless you donate heavily that won't happen for a year or two.

That said, if your intention is to advance in the game (versus pure role play), casting is a support skill. In the early game it supports taming. In the mid and late game it supports dexxing.


Donating and Taming are the optimal early game strategies here. It's ridiculously easy to build a 120 "legendary" tamer: Start with 50, apply jewelry to get to 60, cheaply craft pet dyes to get your unaugmented skill to 60, swallow a 120 powerscroll and apply the +60 skill ball that came with your new character. Presto! 120 taming. You don't even have to actually tame anything.

Having built a legendary tamer, you can buy player-"bred" animals with 1000 str and 1000 hp that dominate in all the early game battles. And your character can have 5 of these out at once.

It takes some practice managing 5 animals, but you'll be at a point in the first 60 days where you can pull in 100k gold per hour dominating Balrons and soloing champs.

Magery won't do that for you. Neither will dexxing, barding or any of the other classic UO builds until you've spent a couple thousand ED. There's such a wide gap between taming and everything else in the early game that unless you just don't enjoy taming it's a no-brainer.

Regards,
Bill Herrin

[Geriatric]

i have to disagree there are areas of magery that do need a buff

ive always been a long time fan of the energy vortex, and for an 8th level spell it is rediculous

3 orcs can comfortably kill an energy vortex
it's supposed to be one of the most powerful spells in the game,
but they die in just a few hits to average mobs

[Johnny Warren]

Margery is super important, well at the very least the recall spell is. Without it you can't jump to the next bally spawn or lich spawn to farm gold fast.

[Muolke]

Margery is super important, well at the very least the recall spell is. Without it you can't jump to the next bally spawn or lich spawn to farm gold fast.

Is that what people use? lol

[Wil]

Margery is super important, well at the very least the recall spell is. Without it you can't jump to the next bally spawn or lich spawn to farm gold fast.

Is that what people use? lol

Well, sacred journey, but you need Magery to Mark the runes. Also, Magery puts the oomph in your dexxer weapon's spell hits.

[Geriatric]

Well, sacred journey, but you need Magery to Mark the runes. Also, Magery puts the oomph in your dexxer weapon's spell hits.

i thought it was eval intel that puts the oomph in spell hits

[Wil]

i thought it was eval intel that puts the oomph in spell hits

AFAIK, Eval is Anatomy for spells. It gives a bonus percentage on the base damage. The base damage is not static; it varies with your Magery.

[Geriatric]

i always thought it behaved more like tactics

magery determines success chance
eval determines damage

but unless we can find some numbers

[Wil]

Yeah, what I said comes with the caveat that I haven't dug into the RunUO code to find out.

[Nick]

Playing as Reagen (my Felc only toon) magic was super useful and the default thing to use as a new player. Much safer more reliable and once trained higher dmg then just clubbing things. Mana is my limitation for damage out put, but trash armor matters much less when you are in the back casting.

I do agree that energy vortexs should get a 3x or 5x health (and probably a dmg as well Boost) for a 8th level spell and 50 mana they are really pathetic blade spirits feel about right but the vortexs should certainly get a hard buff. They don't feel epic 8th level at all.

most every build on this shard is viable, you just will not be optima when compared to a dex/archer/chiv/bard on a enthrall mount. Find what is fun for you and do it, every build is stronger here then else where (except spellweaving we don't have that).

[Dirtybook]

I don't want to make waves here, but it seems to me the spells most focus for reform, is basically Energy Vortex. I have yet to have any real issues with this spell, or its level of power. I have been able to coral 9 Yomotsu Warriors with them, and unleash waves of Chain Lightning/Meteor Swarm at them. Killing them all with relative ease. They can easily handle the first 2 waves of most champion spawns as well. The only thing that really gets in a EVs way, is dispel, commonly used by magic casting monsters. (Or monsters that don't cast, but have dispel as a melee attack, like a Dull Copper Elemental)

On the original servers, you can only cast 2 EVs, but here, its 5 (more if you obtain extra pet slots). To players that have fighting gear on, that rely heavily on Mana Leech to function, the perspective on how much mana it takes to cast multiple EVs will be out of perspective. I wear GoC, with no fighting gear, I rarely have issues with mana, and it recovers rather quickly. So before you say something is not functional, try changing the equipment you wear, for testing first. Also, I can see that the "Fight for me" mentality exists with this talk of empowering Magery. No mention of possible changes to Chain Lightning or Meteor Swarm to either hit harder, or do full damage to 3 targets instead of 2, before the damage starts to get divided. Nore do I see anyone saying things like faster casting speeds or more damage for direct attack spells. Or perhaps make the Deamon and the 4 elementals stronger and harder to dispel?.. "Nope".. just EVs.

This is clear to me, that what I have said, that if you don't like labor intensive, then don't play a mage. You guys already have attack scripts that do most of your target finding, and fighting for you. Making EV juggernauts that fight for you, will just be another way to play without actually having to learn "how" to play a mage in the first place. (That will also take away the need for bard skills, pets, ect. Yet another 1 directional way to play.) Not to mention, that EVs every where, will make a lot of players who use auto target scripts, very unhappy with all the EVs on screen. Blocking there arrows, and agro pulls with melee weapons. (This is a regular complaint at champs, even now.)

Every game I play, I end up telling people what I am about to say now. (I play a caster, every game I play, for reference.) And in every game, no one listens, but I will say it again anyhow. "Know your enemy, there weaknesses, there strengths, and what works and what does not. The numbers for something is only half of the real dynamic." You can look up the effects of a spell, the damage, and the duration, but without the knowledge of how it effects your target, your data is insufficient. What enemy is weak to X? How long on average does Y effect X? Will my summon work to either tank, or kill X? Or will X dispel or be to powerful for my summon of Y?

Maybe being handed a fool proof way to play (220 Dex, WW weapons/Yumi), has created a dogma, that a skill needs to be "absolute", in it's effectiveness agents "All" targets. But in the original UO, that does not exist. It only exists here. I will say this much, no matter how Magery could be changed, it will "Always" be a labor intensive play style. I guarantee people would get tired of "Super EVs", rather quickly. Unless you write your scripts to avoid them. Any arrow/spell/melee strikes, will hit them, and damage them. If not kill them. (Yes, you will target and kill them if they are your closest target, and hurt or destroy them, with an automatic attack. Causes others to flag your EV, and stop attacking any targets when its near, as well.) But then again, people will get bored of having to mash a button, or combination there in, to cast the EVs, and pick a spot to place them. To much work. Thats the main reason people don't play a mage in the first place.

But hey.. it's not all "Bad News". You guys can ask for upgrades to a skill you will not stick with, and I will be the main person who gets to use those upgrades, should +C listen to any of you. So go ahead, make me stronger, then complain after the deed is done. I still say Magery needs to have no upgrades. It was weakened for the masses that find to tedious to play already. Due to them complaining it was to strong in the first place. Now you want it stronger again so you can ask for it to be nerfed, yet again? Makes no sense to me..

Stick with what you know guys, no shame in being Fighters/Archers/Tanks.

[Geriatric]

so you talk about wearing GOC gear for your magery

well im less geared than that, im wearing pretty much full mistvale quest items
i know raegen is definitely less geared than that

yeah sure energy vortexes are fine against slimes and rats but pretty useless against the next wave they die in about 10 seconds, and thats just to regular ratmen and dire wolves

make it so energy vortexes cant be attacked by other players
targetting problem solved.

an energy vortex should be able to easily handle 1 earth elemental and a few scorpions

and with the other 8th level spells yeah i totally agree
summoned demons/elementals should be alot stronger
earthquake should be able to kill what it hits instead of having its damage reduced when the targets are low on health

and ive seen you running around fighting at different places and one of things that surprised me the most

your using magic arrow a first circle spell, and your gonna sit there and try and tell us there isnt something wrong with magery ?

[Dirtybook]

If Energy Vortex is dying when you use one of them agents multiple targets.. cast more of them. It was designed as an "offensive summon", and a situational one at that. So it stands to reason, casting more of them would increase there viability agents said targets. (You know what they say... a great offense, is the greatest defense.) If you cannot afford it with your mana, then work towards more mana, and mana recovery. So you can summon more than 1. (I have 125 standing base Int, on top of my mage armor). Plus, this is Excelsior, not the basic servers. +C granted them to use 1 pet slot, instead of 2, for the reason he increased how many monsters spawn on his server. (Adapt)

As for the Earthquake, static damage would be nice. Rather than reducing. Same with the other level 8 summons, as described.

As for me using Magic Arrow, there is a good reason for it. Currently, at 187% SDI, I hit targets with a single Magic Arrow for 50s and 60s on average. Lots of monsters out there that only require that little love tap to die. Some take 2 or 3 of them before dying (Liches, Skeletal Knights, Mummies to list a few). However, throwing 1-3 of them at a single target, can often be faster than casting say, Energy Bolt, which will do substantially more than that. It also runs the risk of being interrupted if the target/s I'm fighting cast magic them selves. So, it's more about low HP targets, or targets vulnerable to fire taking more damage from a machine gun stream of Magic Arrows (Rotting Corpses are a great example of this), which by the way my Magic Arrows have Discordance attached to them. (More chances to Discord a target like a Balron or a Yamandon, in a shorter time span.)

As I gain more magical spell damage, over time, I will be using Magic Arrow even more so than I do now. One shotting a Lich with 1 Magic Arrow, from my current 2 shots from Magic Arrow, will be a common place thing. Same thing with many, many more monsters as well. I will end up using lower level spells, that fire off faster, and have less of a chance to be interrupted, by that time. Like Harm, Lightning, Fireball, ect. So basically, it's about killing the target in the fastest manner using Magery possible, and moving to the next. (No need to use a shot gun to fish for a fish in a bucket, when you can just grab it with your hands.)

Sure, there is Protection.. But by the time I end up casting a larger spell, I could have already killed it with lower level spells. Now if you "don't" have protection on, and you get the opportunity to use Flame Strike, or Chain Lightning on a few targets, then that's a definite plus. I regularly hit 2 Rotting Corpses at Doom, at my current SDI, for well over 230-250 each. A little less if there are 3 or more. Defiantly better than Magic Arrow, though still a good fast finisher, should targets be low on HP.

I hope this next statement won't anger you, but it may be unavoidable. Unless your actively playing a mage, you really shouldn't criticize someone who does it actively, "All the time". I may know a few things more than you do. (With what I have written here, I clearly know more) So, again, like I told you on World Chat, before placing you on ignore. "I appreciate you like to argue, but it's a waste of my time." Go play a mage before you tell someone how it "should" be done.