lack of new content, player decline, and this shard

Name says it all
User avatar
nocturne7saint
Elder Scribe
Posts: 180
Joined: Thu May 30, 2019 9:32 pm

lack of new content, player decline, and this shard

Post by nocturne7saint »

So I decided this needs to be brought up, smacking the proverbial beehive in the process.

This shard needs new content and events, but from what i get, lack staff and extra coders that can be trusted to implement these new things.
I know colibri can't do everything that needs to be done by himself, hes only one man, and has a life besides this shard.
I don't know if it comes down to money, or what.

But we need events, we need new content, it feels like the player base is bleeding slowly.

runuo has so much more content passed samurai empire. and so much custom content out there to give us new things to do.

i think this server is on life support, and i hate to see it. for the short time i've been here, I have come to love this place and enjoy playing with the people here.

we need changes or this server is going to go into a slow burn into oblivion.

/rant
blackstone from the ILV guild
Dirtybook
Grandmaster Scribe
Posts: 84
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2023 3:53 pm

Re: lack of new content, player decline, and this shard

Post by Dirtybook »

Well, others may have a different stance than this, and I had this same stance for a while my self.. but, at the end of the day, its only a video game, and it's +C's server. I have started gathering rares, and relayers, and doing a lot of hunting for gold just to do 30+ million gold 18x18s (possibly bigger in the future) However, if the server shut down tomorrow, I wouldn't not worry about it. All games that are online, start to head towards there inevitable extinction, the moment they are made public. It's just the "Nature of the Beast".

There will always be another free server of UO, Asheron's Call, or whatever ends up going online, for people to play. You will end up meeting some of the same people on that are on here, or new people in general. Worrying about this server? I wouldn't. Period. Either it gets revamped, with some fresh deco, ideas, quests, events, or it won't. That is up to +C to decide what he wants to do. None of us (and I'm telling you this from experience), can tell a programmer what to do. They will do it if they "Want" to, not before. Otherwise, telling them what to do (or demanding a change), will just force it to not happen. You can suggest things to him, but, as I have mentioned, he is a programmer.

So, just do what I do. Don't take this place to serious. Play around with different methods of play, goof off, start collecting things that you like, do whatever, but don't get attached. It's only a game.
User avatar
Eremite
Grandmaster Scribe
Posts: 96
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2023 7:20 pm

Re: lack of new content, player decline, and this shard

Post by Eremite »

More content is always great, but there's never enough no matter how much you add from my experience. ;p I think that there's a certain amount of burnout that is inevitable when it comes to running a UO shard - my group lasted about 4 years before throwing in the towel so I can't imagine what it's like after a decade.

One way to counteract burnout is to have new GMs/devs working on stuff, but I read somewhere in another thread or world chat that there have been several instances of being burned by GMs in the past, so there's a hesitation to add new ones. I'm not sure what the stories behind that are, but I've seen plenty of instances of new GMs acting fine for a while, then suddenly their mortal becomes very rich or has a new set of very nice items, etc. Fortunately we had a very good logging system for GM commands and an admin with the patience to pore through them. :D

At any rate, that might be a good way to go - bring on someone who's interested in developing out quests, new farming areas, etc. There's just the understood risk of having a bad GM either cheat for themselves or do something to sabotage the system and break stuff.

I've seen a lot of stuff that could stand some polish as well, like:

Hunting Spots: Part of the reason people farm Balrons so much is that there are no other decent hunting spots that I've found so far - lots of low-level mobs spread out so it's very inefficient to farm. Just having a few more dangerous areas with lots of mid to high-level mobs with a bigger density would give people more variety in farming than recall-whacking Balrons. (Think Felucca Delucia density, but with more than just skeletons and zombies). I'd probably put this as a top priority. There are a ton of empty areas in Malas, Ilshenar, Trammel, etc that could stand to have some high density mobs tossed in.

Vendor System: I've recently learned that TC vendors don't pay a vendor fee, just a 3% sale commission. I now understand why people care so much about having TC vendors - before I thought it was just convenience and the ability to search on the vendor stone with the EUO ID. The daily fees on vendors needs to be deleted entirely. Keep the sales commission to help with inflation if needed. Vendors are almost worthless now. I can't sell any high-dollar items or else the daily fee just drains all the money that I'd have made from it - especially since these sell very slowly. Even selling cheaper stuff, the vendor fees just gradually eat away all the money you've made - I feel like I'm just adding stuff to the vendor to support it existing without making any profits.

"Useless" skills : Remove trap doesn't really get any use. No need when you can just step 1 tile away and pop the chest.

Various Spawner Problems - This is hard to track down, but there are a lot of places where spawners pop mobs into unreachable areas (in a decorative wall, underground, etc). Should be relatively simple to drop or tile some blockers inside to prevent spawn or adjust spanwers locations/ranges as needed. This is a big undertaking though and very hard to handle outside of player reports. (Sorry to the GMs for making so many of these, lol).

Static Optimization - I've posted more about this before, but having a way of freezing statics in place and having clients patch would be a great method of reducing load times in areas like TC/Britain, etc. Anywhere where deco has been added that could be converted to static in the mul files. I see there was a patching system in the past, but it seems to have gone away. I have an old system that I wrote years ago in AutoIt, but it's a bit of a mess, lol.

---

All in all, though... this is a fun shard and it's scratched the itch that I have for playing UO. I'm definitely understanding the content drought that people have mentioned before after leaving MistVale though - there were lots of dense dungeons there, repeatable quests, weekly quests, etc. Now I'm kinda desparately looking for a place that's good to farm that isn't just turning on a Balron macro and watching YouTube on the other monitor. The few nice spots there are like Blood Dungeon are farmed constantly because there aren't enough good spots to accommodate the number of people playing. (and with only ~120 players, it's hard to grow if the farming market is already saturated)
Geriatric
Legendary Scribe
Posts: 234
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2022 4:51 am

Re: lack of new content, player decline, and this shard

Post by Geriatric »

the GOC quest seems to be one of the only repeatable quests that i see people doing on a regular basis,
back when i was doing mistvale and there was these quests of kill 100 lich lords and stuff like that i thought it would be a brilliant idea to have something like that as a daily quest
a monster type is chosen at random, go out and kill a heap of them, turn in the quest book, get a reward
something kinda like bulk order deeds for monster killing
BOD's relayers and weapon levels is something that keeps alot of people playing
theres also alot of mistakes in the wiki, ive offered to edit/update it but never heard anything back
User avatar
Cerrera
Legendary Scribe
Posts: 330
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:51 am

Re: lack of new content, player decline, and this shard

Post by Cerrera »

Right now personally waiting for one of these changes
https://uoex.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=13973
Recently +C said that he is working on it, i believe he isn't joking, also that he isn't from those coders who spends all day in dark room filled with emptied cans of energy drinks,and open doors just to take he's ordered pizza. So am ready to wait patiently :D but could be cool to see more often a little sneak peaks in what dev's is making for us, just in raw form, no need to make cool presentation. Saw that coowner gump, have no clue what it does except picking player from area, but my imagination played, and thought can it be coowner yarding permission thing?
Talking about vendor fee's, yes it looks and is unfair from one side, but when you look back in past and realize that you bought all your good stuff, for cheap in places which isn't tc, while people who had their prices inflated, keeps waiting he's buyer. What mean, that real winner was customer, And it starts to make sense.
Talking about taste id, i can live without it but guessing its possible to give for that skill second life, if it was built in +stat food cooking gumps, where you should really cook in real time, taste and add ingredients depending on what ''your taste'' says in certain timespan , :evil: muhahahaaa and randomised timers etc, which wouldn't allow grandmaster chef of excelsior cook with macro :D .
As we all know client limits is almost fully used, its been mentioned earlyer so adding things like completely new graphics, could break someone's heart, cause slots must be freed up or client version changed, what means begin everything from almost scratch (as i understood). Guessing future is in code, and different ways of exploitation of what we already have. But there is also so much started projects and things which am guessing we didn't saw yet, at least me in my 5 years here, that i believe Excelsior will surprise us one day.
User avatar
Johnny Warren
Legendary Scribe
Posts: 855
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2010 11:40 pm

Re: lack of new content, player decline, and this shard

Post by Johnny Warren »

Eremite wrote:
Sun May 28, 2023 3:42 am

Vendor System: I've recently learned that TC vendors don't pay a vendor fee, just a 3% sale commission. I now understand why people care so much about having TC vendors - before I thought it was just convenience and the ability to search on the vendor stone with the EUO ID. The daily fees on vendors needs to be deleted entirely. Keep the sales commission to help with inflation if needed. Vendors are almost worthless now. I can't sell any high-dollar items or else the daily fee just drains all the money that I'd have made from it - especially since these sell very slowly. Even selling cheaper stuff, the vendor fees just gradually eat away all the money you've made - I feel like I'm just adding stuff to the vendor to support it existing without making any profits.
Just an FYI there's also a 30k weekly fee on TC vendors, plus the tax you mentioned on each sale.
JOHNNY WARREN!
Image
User avatar
Turnabout
Elder Scribe
Posts: 117
Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2013 9:59 pm

Re: lack of new content, player decline, and this shard

Post by Turnabout »

The only thing I want to see implemented is the ignore function for https://portal.uoex.net/.
The Skilled Image.
User avatar
+Colibri
Administrator
Posts: 3958
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 4:08 pm
Location: static void Main

Re: lack of new content, player decline, and this shard

Post by +Colibri »

I'll reply tomorrow, temporarily locking it since for now it's still something I can read thru, if it gets to 5 pages by the time I read it then it'll take more time that I want to allocate for this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EL7e05pClKM
+Colibri, Administrator of UO Excelsior Shard

Don't know what the purpose of your life is? Well then make something up! ;)
(Old Colibrian proverb)
User avatar
+Colibri
Administrator
Posts: 3958
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 4:08 pm
Location: static void Main

Re: lack of new content, player decline, and this shard

Post by +Colibri »

Well yeah it's true, what I'd like to avoid is a kind of chaotic development that introduces new bugs that only I can handle, and since I have more obligation IRL lately, I think the current state of "staticity" is the best considering the circumstances. Only thing is that this period of cleanup and re-organization was supposed to be something like 6-9 months, ok maybe a year, but then corona, parenting, fulfilling some old promises... weeks and months just go by. I posted plans in August 2022, it's moving along but very slowly. But that's still the plan and the goal and I think in the long run it's the best decision and course of action.

Excelsior has a lot of potential so it would be a huge waste if it just stayed like this. But also going forward, building things in a way that's manageable and debuggable and sustainable etc.
I took the time to think about the big picture and wrote all my thoughts here: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=13973

@Dirtybook hehe yeah programmers are stubborn creatures :)

@Eremite yeah the system I'm making is going to allow for better logging and more granular permissions so that we know what's going on, and there can also be auditing of actions by someone's peers, ... it's not so much about us being all gestapo on each other, but with activity there come complaints and doubts and so on, and so there has to be a way to check it, and hopefully dismiss those doubts. But if all you can rely on is various gossip from people who either have gossiping as a hobby, or don't like someone in particular, then it gets very messy.

@Cerrera, in a way I'd love to be that kind of programmer who can really have his head in the game 120%, although in the long term it's not doable. Noted about making sneak peeks at what's in development. Can't wait when something will be in development because these sneak peeks and the excitement and all that, I really miss that. The player picker gump was something that's used in staff tools a lot, but the house co-owner menu and some other player-usable stuff got an improvement too, but I had a lot of fun doing it since it's a straightforward thing :)

About other ideas and issues - well i sound like a broken record by this point, but I'm making an idea cataloguing/prioritization system, so I can know what should get priority. There's this issue that's been here from the early years: I fix a few bugs and restart the server, and get complaints about "but when are you going to add something!?". So after a new system or an upgrade, then come complaints like "but when are you going to fix these horrible bugs!?!".
+Colibri, Administrator of UO Excelsior Shard

Don't know what the purpose of your life is? Well then make something up! ;)
(Old Colibrian proverb)
Dirtybook
Grandmaster Scribe
Posts: 84
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2023 3:53 pm

Re: lack of new content, player decline, and this shard

Post by Dirtybook »

Well, I'm still here.. So this place isn't all that bad. I'll just hang out till things change, or they don't. (I don't care either way.. I'm easly amused.) I have enough to keep me entertained on here anyway. Party on dudes!
Geriatric
Legendary Scribe
Posts: 234
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2022 4:51 am

Re: lack of new content, player decline, and this shard

Post by Geriatric »

there are some unique things on this server that are really awesome and you can easily see alot of manhours went into its creation (that area above minoc, mistvale, sgail) its impressive to say the least and i dont think anyone on this wouldnt appreciate what you have done for it

requests for new content and fixes and updates can often seem like underappreciation, but a different perspective can also be anticipation and excitement of whats coming next
and the result is everyone throwing their ideas around like kids trying to guess the presents that santa left on christmas morning
but even santa had the elves as helpers
maybe theres some small stuff that we can do as members of this community to help out
Zanzi
Elder Scribe
Posts: 139
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2021 12:20 am

Re: lack of new content, player decline, and this shard

Post by Zanzi »

I don't understand the work that goes into new content. I am really hoping there are things that are easier to add/implement and hopefully we will see some of it soon. It is just a psychological boost. I think as a community we have to be willing to go through the growing pain. Let say +C decide to add something and it goes wacko, I think he can simply revert/reload server from point before that? If that this the case, then no one should be critical.
Silent
Legendary Scribe
Posts: 217
Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:05 pm
Location: Portugal

Re: lack of new content, player decline, and this shard

Post by Silent »

Has I've been saying for the past few years, I'm also a broken record but with a different song, new content isn't all. We just need more interactions with players through events to keep the spirit up and running. We need active +'s and at least any random event like monster bash or what ever. As long as it isn't a Auction or a trivia... What happened to onslaught map ? it seems pretty much bug free... Heck just turn yourself into a giant monster full of hp and we just all shoot you for random drops and huge amount of deaths.

The longevity of UO freeshards isn't about having a ton of content EA never thought of, it's about the interaction with game master through events being more periodic. The events are all that matters.

Event's are becoming some sort of worship religion here (they were here and now no one ever saw them again but still talk about it) ... and honestly that's why the player-base keeps sinking. We can't just game +200 players during an event and then leave the noobs running in an empty world after that...
Lurking the forums since dec 2012
Dirtybook
Grandmaster Scribe
Posts: 84
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2023 3:53 pm

Re: lack of new content, player decline, and this shard

Post by Dirtybook »

To be honest. I actually like +C, and have grown fond of this server. (Regardless of how he may feel about me.) But to me, the only way to make this server better, or suddenly disappear, (which ever would happen first as a result) would be to stop donating so much. If someone is making plenty off there Burger shack, and it is a comfortable living, then they aren't motivated to expand and make another location, or improve the dining experience, or quality of product for there customers. Which may be the case here, as I have actually watched people talk about this very thing being the real root of the problem in server development, or lack of action there in.

The time frame for how his server seemed to switch, correlates with a new addition to his family. Simply put, he now has family based fiduciary responsibilities, that he did not have before. Which can be seen through his sudden switch to how he deals with his server, which started taking place a few short years ago. Where today, there is less on the server than ever before. With the exception of the Auctions, which drive people to new heights of greed, increased stress due to that competition, along side the players that flex/bully with how much in game wealth they have, and the low gold/loot yields from most monsters in the game. It creates an atmosphere where players feel they should donate, to catch up to people, they will never ever, catch up to.

Which would be the people who donate often, regularly, or in large bulk sums, and especially, the gold farmers. Who dominate most of the last high gold yield monsters on the server. Which in a way, is a form of jealousy generated by the allowance for it to happen, with little, to no slowing it down. Which in turn, creates more donations from players on this server, due to feeling insecure, and making it again, about competition.

Make no mistake. This is a business folks. Constantly kissing up to the admin, will not create change. (Not everyone kisses up, but enough to notice how fake it can be, and as to why they are kissing up in the first place.) I have already stated I like +C, and I gave up caring if anything will change on the server not to long ago. I am just here for nostalgia purposes at this point. So, to me, the server is enough, because I expect very little. However, if you want +C to change anything.. Make him hungry to do better. Boxers do there best when they are hungry to be the best, and make big money.. the worst boxers, are the ones that are spoon fed there obviously weaker opponents, to continue making a revenue stream. (This is pointed out a lot in boxing.)

Hopefully +C will see this for what it is, and not an attack. However, being the person on the outside looking in, and as someone who watches human behavior closely (some times to closely), I can say this would be the only course of action to improve the server.

Thems my two cents.
Geriatric
Legendary Scribe
Posts: 234
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2022 4:51 am

Re: lack of new content, player decline, and this shard

Post by Geriatric »

dirtybook's never heard of nicolino locche i take it

i dont know if +C is doing this for the money or not im not gonna make the mistake of speculating
but silent brings up a good point about interaction between admins and players

we are here to be entertained and right now the same tv is show playing on repeat
i think i had once made the suggestion to have city monster invasions (its cool that fel cities are already invaded)
but more event type

and yeah there is a player event stone in trinsic, but it costs 2.5 million tokens just to run the event, chump change to some but a fair amount of time and effort to others
Locked