Excelsior

A friend of mine was recently carted off by staff for saying what was claimed to be a curse word. I looked this word up in the Merriam-Webster dictionary (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/), and got this....

Main Entry: jack·ass
Pronunciation: \ˈjak-ˌas\
Function: noun
Date: 1727

1 : donkey; especially : a male donkey
2 : a stupid person : fool


I do not believe that an animal should be classified as a curse word. The reference to a fool comes from comparing someone who is acting the fool to a donkey. So maybe we should outlaw the word Donkey, Stupid, and Fool?


***EDIT***
It's also the title to a very popular movie & TV show watched by people of all ages.

****EDIT AGAIN ****
Thanks for the replies, they kinda put into perspective that some words or comments do not have to be completely vulgar to be offensive. I also failed to remind myself that these rules are necessary to keep overall peace as a whole shard, whether or not they may be politically correct. Thanks for reminding me.

kinda nice that you stand up for your friend
however you know that word is ment as a cuss word or a pun and so does everyone else

While there are many words out there that we could classify as non-offensive, the truth is that there will always be someone who takes offense to it. The real problem comes in when these words are aimed at other players - regardless if its a 'tolerable' word or not, its still meant to offend.

There are a few other examples of words that have more than one meaning (which I don't feel comfortable posting - most of us already know what they are) but in this environment they will almost always be derogatory.

I don't always agree with the language rules here, but then again I have been to a couple shards that are even more strict.

Indeed, as Blaze stated... there will always be someone who finds something offensive. You gotta think, this is a family oriented shard, and because of that.. the use of even the most miniscule of words are punishable.

The thing is though.. if your friend was in his own home.. with you.. then of course being jailed would be rather.. inexcusable in my mind. If he broadcasted something over public chat, then yes, by all means, jail him. The rules have been set forth, and need to be followed, no matter how strict they appear to be.

It's all about the circumstance, as I said. If he feels he has been wronged, then he needs to prove that using the word, wasn't offensive to the people he used it around. Which, the more people there were, the harder it will be to prove that.

The best thing to do is, if you're unsure of the word being "permitted", then its best not to use it at all.

Without knowing what really happened, then its hard to determine if your defense of your friend is within reason..

Dimir wrote:1 : donkey; especially : a male donkey
2 : a stupid person : fool

if someone on the streed called me a donkey, id laugh... is someone called me a jack-a$$, i would reply with the old fasion *fu* an maybe throw in the bird... and the posts above are right about this being a family oriented, and not to mention your "friend" was also being very rude, as it says in codex

6. Behavior, attitude towards other players

he was being very rude, an unacceptable attitude, especially when there are kids present... that kind of attitude is not allow in my house, i dont raise little punks to be rude... but the facts stated against your friend there, he said some pretty unhealthy words that are not allowed in my household around my kids, and im sure alot of other households, like i said, i dont raise kids to adapt that kind of attitude, and the kids mind = adapt to everything.. so what i teach them is what their gonna use/learn for the rest of their lives, i trust staff's judgement, so your friend prolly got what he deserved... AMEN

p.s. learn from your mistakes... there are other shards out there that allow swearing... this is not one of them

Nice flame job, Undertaker . Anyway... -Rude- is when you pop out of nowhere and steal spawn from others. The kids who did the spawn gank were especially arrogant, not to mention spiteful toward our party. They also flat out lied to the staff. If I met someone like that in the street, I'd probably skip right over the name calling. BTW Undertaker.. isn't F.U. and insinuation to a vulgar curse word? It's an abbreviation for one, and kids know what it means. Please do not curse in the forums. It's not allowed here either.

Undertaker wrote:is someone called me a jack-a$$, i would reply with the old fasion *fu* an maybe throw in the bird...

hello folks, im a friend,
a good ideia to avoid raising a punk is starting by teaching them the rules after learning it yourself,
also a good ideia to investigate about common sense, ethics, and morals, usualy approached by average western educational sistems where stealing/taking advantage/manipulating/lieing are considered punishable things, if this happens, there is a slight chance that if they are bright enough they can ignore their gene pool and actualy become nice persons, i believe it only happens to a few, shldnt feel bad about it, its just your fault.
some times for the sake of peace you better be a hipocrit, or at least subtle
gift:

See, it's as I stated above... it all depends on the situation. Now, I don't have kids of my own, so I can't sit here and say I know exactly where parents are coming from; but one of the biggest issues with having a family shard, is that when kids do play, sometimes they're not too verbose in common etiquette. Which then creates the problem of when they do something immature, chances are, they're going to provoke a rather "mature-rated" response.

Now I'm not sure what the real circumstances were, but by putting the bits of the puzzle together here, I'm starting to gather that some kids were giving grief to Dimir and his friend; which provoked that "mature-rated" response I mentioned above. And apparently, the same kids causing trouble, reported Dimir's friend to staff.

Now that to me, is just wrong.

For one, the game is rated T for Teen... if a child comes into the game, and provokes a mature (mature = 18+ years old) member, and then reports them for a rather less than vulgar choice of words; that just needs to be dealt with swiftly. Punishing Dimir's friend for saying a word that, for all intents and purposes, really isn't a "cuss word", is just... immoral.

As Dimir stated, the word itself refers to a "donkey"... which in turn, can be used to imply that someone is a fool. The only reason the word is considered remotely vulgar, is simply because of the 3 letter ending. I've seen players use the word "hell" in chat, as well as guild/character names. Yet, there has yet to be any disciplinary actions taken. "Hell" is a lot worse than the word Dimir's friend used. "Go to...." is something I wouldn't be prepared to tolerate, while being called a 'jack...', is well.. not merely as bad.

People will argue that "Hell" is a place.. a noun.. Well, 'jack...' is a noun as well, referring to a "thing".

I think that the cursing "clause" within the shard's rules, simply hasn't been defined as clearly as it should be. It appears to me as though people are being jailed based upon how offended each individual staff member is, who jails the "offender".

One staffer might let Dimir slip, while another, apparently felt he was in the wrong.

The reality of things is, you just can't pair children and mature members without having to tolerate some level of disfunction amongst them. To really keep this shard "clean", you'd have to eliminate everyone who isn't a parent or under 18. Rules are rules, but personally I feel that the occasional slip is fine, but when 4 letter words are being tossed about, then things need to be clamped down a bit. I get offended daily by players talking about how "sexxi" each other are, but I have yet to complain. I deal with it.

As I said, cursing enough to make a sailor blush, shouldn't be allowed, regardless of children. But expecting that your 5, 8, or even 10 year old child can get on a TEEN rated game, and not experience some taste of the reality of the world, is just absurd.

We all come from different countries, where different words have different meanings. I'm fairly fluent in French and Spanish, and am well aware of how quickly words can be misconstrued.

Think about it.. what would your reaction be if a Brit came to your country and asked you for a "fag"? I bet you wouldn't be thinking cigarette...

It's just all leading me to wonder one thing:

How long will all this drama drag on, before staff finally puts their foot down and lays out a clearly defined, set of rules regarding language, rather than jailing people on the whim?

Truth is simply; he knew they were wrong and had to cling to the only thing he had in his favor.. Someone referred to him as a Fool/Donkey. He said it himself in a reply to this post.. He'd have no problem with his kids watching him call someone a much worse name on the streets -and- flip the bird, but lord forbid they see someone call him a donkey in a game they probably weren't watching to begin with.

Bed now, but I will be commenting on this tomorrow morning.

i have to say that curse words shouldn't be punished because there are filters that people can click in their options. sometimes i type faster than i think and it comes out. you can also say that every word has a function. sh#$ is just an acronym for 'ship high in transit'. when they used to ship fertilizer on ships. it used to be stamped SH@#, because it used to release methane gas, and back then they only had candle light. so we could always use some sort of justification. but it's always good to be nice, lang. free of harrasment, and i think that's what they are trying to point out. this shard has kids on it you know too. yeah i'm sure they have heard worse but we shouldn't encourage them that that is ok to use such words.

it seems we are getting way off the chart here, in last instance this isnt even a matter of cursing, because jackass is not cursing,
this is all about the atitude involved in this episode, i understand the punishment was applied because the atitude involved was being counter producent, it was quite a small jail time and i believe fairly applied,
i believe the main thing you should focus in here is why are you worried about a aledgly 11year old hearing the word "jackass" when he himself and his "older" friends were stealing in the first place and continued out unpunished trough that by lying shamelessly, grammar aside and if you stop to think about it,
sounds CRAZY.
*

This a great example of what happens when no one, other then the individual, know anything of the disciplinary situation, however everyone gets involved in building up the fictional story, the rights and wrongs of the fictional story, and the demand for information. (And they say only women gossip). No one, other then the individual involved, has any right to know of the circumstances regarding the disciplinary action. All jailing incidents are private matters. Second hand hearsay is anything but factual, and arguments based on hearsay are a waste of intelligence.

+Veritas will conclude shortly.

+Rayne

“How long will all this drama drag on, before staff finally puts their foot down and lays out a clearly defined, set of rules regarding language, rather than jailing people on the whim?”
___
Let’s take a look at the codex...
(www.uoex.net/codex, under "6. Behavior, attitude towards other players")
c. No drama. Accept the things you cannot change. If you are in an unresolvable conflict, be the smart one and walk away. Keep the private problems out of public chats, send a private message instead.
(www.uoex.net/codex, under "2. Language")
a. Keep chat clean - no cussing, arguing, harassing, etc.
b. No racial/religious/national/ethnical slurs are tolerated. We do not allow promotion of drug abuse.
c. Guild chat and private messages are not monitored - rules there are not being enforced on a regular basis - however, statements can be taken as harassment and reported to staff.
___

Drugs:
Absolutely, no overhead or “[c” chat of any type of narcotic use or illegal over-the-counter drug use. Also, no talking about or hinting toward the cultural aspects of these actions. Examples of this are as follows:
Bob: “Haha, it’s 4:20! =)”
Bob: “I’m so blazed right now”
We warn first, unless you share a really explicit thing first. In which case, we will likely jail for an hour. If this upsets you, that’s unfortunate. Joining this shard and playing on it is an automatic agreement to follow the rules of the shard, and you subject yourself to the judgment of the staff member(s) online at the time. There is not enough space in the codex to outline every situation and say its wrong, so common sense and reasoning is necessary when interpreting a situation and its status with the codex. We do not jail players “on a whim.” We have a system of checks and balances where we check with the other staff members and ask them for their opinions on the matter. This includes me, a seer, asking a counselor about the fairness of my actions. Also, we need to keep our actions in check because the coordinating administrator, Colibri, always follows up with punishments. It’s not as if we have free reign.

Alcohol:
Alcohol is a part of the game (bars, bartenders, “Melisande’s Wine”, etc.). However, talking in overhead and global about personal experience and “omgth, I’m playing OU drunk its fun” is not permitted. This is not only prohibited, but it’s also not necessary. I see no problem in hanging out with friends in your own home or in guild/party chat to talk about these things, but it has no place in global or in front of Brit bank. Examples of what is not allowed:
Bob: “I did a wicked keg stand last night”
Bob: “I just had like, 3 long islands, and I’m feeling gooood”
Examples of what is allowed:
Bob: “What is Melisande’s Wine for?”
Bob: “I prefer Bud Light”
*I realize people drink alcohol, I being one of them, and that children see this in restaurants and family get-togethers. However, talking about irresponsible behavior with alcohol is not allowed.

Sex:
No. Just no. Nobody wants to hear about it, or at least most don’t want to hear it. Talking about how hot an actor or actress is, is one thing. Detail is quite another. Vagueness and general commentary is your best friend for topics like this. So, let’s say:
A: No description of anatomy you wouldn’t see in a PG rated movie
B: No description of behavior you wouldn’t see in a PG rated movie
Example of okay talk:
Bob: “Jessica Beal is hot.”
Bob: “That guy has amazing hair.”

Language:
No obvious swear words (S, F, A, B). The word “Hell” is in the game already (Hell Hound), so It’s hard to make a case that it’s not allowed without changing the monster’s name to “Heck Hounds.” But, the use of this word for attacks and overall “look at me” behavior is frowned upon. Telling someone to “go to hell”, is deemed a personal attack. Saying in global “Labyrinth is hell” one time over a while is one thing that I would overlook. Saying “Oh Hell!” five times in a row for whatever reason is deemed (in my opinion) as “look at me, I can swear” behavior that will be warned and followed by a short jailing if necessary.
I have yet to see anyone say, “Hold on, I am unpacking my ass (jackass) at Brit bank so I can shrink it.” So, until that day comes that it is consistently used in the right context, I will see the word “Ass” as a swear word that I will warn against using. Also, calling someone a “jackass” may not be deemed as swearing, it is a personal attack.
Even though we have dogs and wolves here, and some are female, it is not alright to say the “B” word in public overhead or global chat.
Even though there are things used for female hygiene in the real world (“DB”), they are not here. So, don’t talk about them, or use them in a sentence in public overhead or global chat in any context.
Sigh…anything you can foresee yourself getting in trouble for using, just don’t use it. If you use it, accept the consequences from not being able to use common sense and listening to staff warnings.

Harassment:
From Dictionary.com:
“To disturb persistently; torment, as with troubles or cares; bother continually; pester; persecute.”
Notice this has nothing about swearing in it. So, just because you are bothering a player repeatedly after they tell you to stop, but you are not swearing, that doesn’t mean you’re squeaky clean. Public overhead chat and global chat use of “black listing” players (action with intention to “inform” the masses about a player in a negative way) is strictly prohibited. Repeated private messaging of players who requested your halting of doing so, is prohibited. Following players around in game with the intent of disrupting their gameplay and enjoyment of the game is also prohibited. The following is a list of behaviors that are deemed as harassment after the player asks for the other player to stop via private message:
Following someone into their private home, following someone and verbally harassing them; kill stealing; looting another player’s kill; using magic to create obstacles the victim must move around to escape or obtain something (stone circle, stone wall, energy field, etc); using creatively named pets and placing them at a players vendor, house gate, or home; using books and message boards to leave undesirable messages for players. (The behavior of harassing is not limited to just these behaviors)
The player being harassed must first send the offending player a private message and wait a few minutes before it can be assumed that an action is a purposeful attempt to harass.

Retribution:
You have NO right to this, beyond speaking your mind in a calm and collected manner without the use of vulgarity, humiliation, swearing, and multiple expressions that may be seen as harassment. Vengeance is ours, and we do our homework when it comes to alleged offenses. We also watch situations that we are warned about, like hawks. So, when you feel that you’ve been wronged and the other player is unresponsive or demeaning, your duty is to report to staff the name of the character, the behavior, and the time it happened. We will investigate.

Soliciting Other Shards:
This is for all methods of communication used in the shard and outside the client, but part of the shard (Global Chat, Overhead Chat, Private Messages, Guild Chat, Party Chat, Using books and passing them out, Forum, Ventrilo). A Ford car lot wouldn’t let a Honda salesman work their floor, why should we allow the competition to advertise here?

Hopefully this eliminates some confusion. Frankly, I am a bit saddened that I needed to type this out. But, here it is, and there are examples of acceptable and unacceptable behavior. For some of you out there, you need to stop blaming the rules and regulations and start thinking before you act. People don’t need to be told every single situation that is right or wrong, they need to look at a general guideline and use common sense and reasoning skills.

Oh yeah, just because children hear swear words, sexual references, and drug/alcohol use references on a daily basis, is not a rationale for having it on here.

-V

MTV solved this problem with beeps. ^^