Excelsior

I felt like this idea was pulling focus and off topic from Higheroller's post (whoopsie bud)..

anyhoo this post is about the 2 and 3 slot pets.. boosting them so that they make sense in a selective breeding enviroment..

the best example of this sort of imbalance exists with the 2 slot pets the imp, firesteed, and the 3 slot pets of any sort..

simply put why are they 3 slots.. they offer nothing extra by and large (with the exception of maybe a rune beetle or cu) than a 1 slot mule.. the mule and a dragon have the same statistical maxes..

Well it may be true that they start with higher base stats, and will max faster once maxxed side by side with a maxxed mule.. other than graphics there is no difference..

that and certain 2 slot pets actually have way inferior stats to their 1 slot mule counterpart, a firesteed has 1/4 the strength and half the dex of a mule..

take a look at a bio it has 3000 hitpoints and 3 slots.. which people seem to like, and bios see use.. perhaps if these sorts of adjustments were made a dragon or wyvern may see use...

I think what bugs me the most is by and large Excelsior custom animals are relegated to the useless pile due to the fact that most take more than 1 slot, and when maxxed they are identical to a maxxed mule...

discuss, perhaps suggest ideas across the entire animal kingdom for things that could make all these different wildlife viable options for combat, the greatest variety of options for gameplay = the most fun every time..

Yoda

I actually like this idea quite a bit. It would be awesome to have a white wyrm or nox steed that you could build up to have stats comparable to a couple of imps. My only question would be concerning obtaining the animals. Anything tameable can be found in about 15 minutes usually but it can be hard to get an imp pet off a peerless. That's my only question. Interesting topic

well it has a self imposed limitation on it.. 2's and 3's aready fail ALOT.. and the bigger stats would take double and triple the time to attain a maxxed 2 or 3 slot pet.. as it stands now gen 1->maxxed for mules is a good slog for a few months.. but in the case of a 2 slot pet you are maxxing to 2000hp/str could mean the breed time is near 6months or an obscene amount of oints if your name begins with G =)

I am all for making 2 and 3 slot pets more useful. It would APPEAR the slots were based on not being able to breed up pets. So a dragon was worth 3 slots because it was a much better pet right out of the wild than say a gen 1 swamp dragon.

As is you can have 3 maxed swamp dragons or 1 maxed dragon for the use of 3 slots. Ignoring things like the dragon's fire breath, the dragon uses 3 slots to the swamp dragon's 1 slot for the same max stats. The fire breath is nice but it in no way makes the maxed dragon 3 times as good as a maxed swamp dragon. And of course the swamp dragon can wear the metal dragon barding also...

Not sure exactly what would be a fair upgrade to the 2 and 3 slot pets but they need either to take up less pet slots or to have higher max stats to justify their higher slot count as I see it.

thats totally the idea, we have seen the unpopularity of adjusting Imps in any way.. and really there I couldn't see staff doing anything, the general populous would get far too restless and use it as an excuse to really have a pitty/poopy diaper party..

I don't think you will find much dissagreement here.. the 2 and 3 slot pets often make no sense.. case in point, the fire steed and the nightmare, one is a mule equal in every way.. one is lesser than a mule by half.. both are 2 slots the mule is one.. I am against adjusting the 1 slotters to balance since alot of people enjoy using the mules and the nobiles.. I am not about ruining someone's good time, just providing some variety when it comes to options of pet and such..

Yesterday we (highroller and myself) were testing out some of my bred out Fire Wyrm, seeing their current kill potential.. and yes they can kill balrons etc etc etc not a problem, but it wasn't extra amazing due to their 3 slot status.. it was like fighting with 2 mules more or less (which btw alot of the time is plenty) if its a 3 slot pet i want some sort of bonus otherwise why is it 3 slots.. The rune beetles have that wicked high poisoning, which is really fantastic, its surprising what Isn't immune to a Rune.. the cu's are awesome in situations where you have a life drainer, and the damage is out of this world.. but other than that.. there is no logical difference with most 3 slot pets, and many of the 2 slot pets are just.. I dunno weird..

an Imp.. vs. an imprisoned pet.. imprisoned pet 1 slot.. the little green 1 hit wonder the imp.. 2 slots..

should be looked at you could say "the stock magery on an imp is enough for flamestrike"
but if you have been seeing, I run with gm magery mules and so can anyone else if they have a trainer, time, and they allow breaks for the pet to recharge mana..

anyhoo point is.. I am not out to harsh anyones buzz.. I think there is a huge chunk of animal kingdom that could be made usefull overnight and it doesn't punish those who spent the dollars/time on their current pets.. imprisoned included..

I am all for things that make the shard a more varied and fun place to be.. sounds strange but seeing weirder pet choices than the 3 things people use (mules, nobles, imprisoned) it does add to the ambience.. after yesterday's tests I am tempted to run with a Fire Wyrm and an Energy Wyrm.. why it looks way way way more cool they look like they should down a balron..

from a graphics and animation standpoint to me it looks more normal than horses downing a demon

Yoda

Answer: make all animals 1 slot.

just like that all animals equal.
except imps which have 200% dmg, and animals with nice abilities (small boost and generally higher taming required)

you know I am not sure I can dispute your logic entirely..

it would instantly bring it to balance sure, but it would also mean people could use 5 cu's and a bio would seem out of phase in that way..

I don't think Id mind a bit, i don't particuarly care what damage someone else is doing.. however

maybe the fact that they are 2 and 3 slots could be used to make something unique within the realm of free shards, a type of variety etc that is UOex

the staff here made lovely custom tameables, alot of them are 2 and 3 slots.. why not make a reason for that.. there is no reason you couldn't make 2's have a higher statcap on str dex hp and mana, and 3's an even higher one than that

a maxxed out bio has 3000 hp and thats cool..

the thing I can hear people saying "you can tame them off the field too easily" its no easier than a lady mel imp drop, because generally speaking for breeding purposes anything below level 30 off the field is too immature..

even when you have 30's as parents its still a time or two of back breeding to reach maxxed with 1000hp/str etc etc

with a 2 slot or 3 slot pet having 2000 and 3000 as caps, thats probably another 2-3 courses of backbreeding to attain a 3000hp pet for example (thats putting 3's in line with a bio vs below a mule)...

here is the bottom line, unless someone has 1000's upon 1000's of oints saved up and are willing to drop them on an experiment, it will be quite some time before you see anything 2 or 3 slot bred up to full..

in alot of ways for a taming oriented shard this adds nothing but new goals.. a 2nd ceiling, and 3rd ceiling.. could even lead to a new deed type

a pet slot +1 deed..
promote your mule to a tier 2 and give it 2000hp..

with a little imagination you could see all kinds of potential for fun... with the fail rates, sterility, constant gender swaps, etc it would be miraculous if we saw a maxxed anything 2-3 for near half a year.. (with the exception of the spendy few who would warp the pet with oints)

Yoda

Well I'll tell you right now if fail rate is based off total points a pet has like I think it is vice percentage of total points it CAN have then you wont get a 3 slotter to 3 times as high on any skill. Rune beetles and White Wyrms which are both spellcasters have a HUGE fail rate just to get them to 1000 hits/1000 str/250dex/1000 mana/750 intell/500 stamina. If those caps are raised a lot and fail rate is not adjusted then you will quickly reach a point at which you fail on 100% of cross attempts ie EVERY time.

That being said I am all for either making 2 and 3 slot pets 1 slot pets or raising the caps on the ones with higher slots. Lord knows the 2 and 3 slot pets need something changed so they aren't treated like red-headed stepchildren.

bump... its not just for gwennie anymore..

I agree that it would be nice for 3 slot pets to scale identical to 1 slot pet, if nothing else it would only take a LOT more generations and back breeding to make them viable soooo yaaaa ! make them more funzies and stuff =p

yup.. total win for the staff..

how about a change that noone complains about.. sounds nice and simple

Yes! Bring back the popularity of Dragons and White Wyrms, Dangit!

Let me start off by saying that I breed several types of exotic/uncommon pets, including all 4 exotic dragon types, caits, mares, bakes, and the usual pets as well (nobles, mules, and cu's). My wife breeds some of the exotic horses like nox steeds. We had white wyrms, dragons, runes, and a few other pet types going but gave up on them due to the high cost of breeding (gender deeds, breeder costs, steriles, not to mention the extremely high failure rate) and the fact that they just weren't selling. I would LOVE to see some rebalancing take place, either through a revision of the control slots or bonuses to higher slot pets. With that said, I'm not holding my breath. People have been asking for this for a long time, and I honestly don't believe it is very high on +Coli's priority list.

I agree that it would be great to do something to promote those pets that don't get much usage.

There was a discussion a year or more ago about an idea to have a lower slot usage deed that would lower the number of slots a pet would take with the limitations only one could be used on a pet, would not reduce to zero slot and couldn't be used on bios. While this is a really good suggestion, it would take more coding to implement a new item.

The other suggestion here to raise the cap on 2 and 3 slot pets would work to some extent. I would suggest that 2 slot pets be jumped by 50% their current cap and 3 slot pets doubled their current cap. This still keeps the bios on the absolute top for tanking, but a 2000 hp dragon or cu would certainly work in most places. Highroller of course brings up a good point to this, that the breed failure calculation would need to get tweaked as well. (I really think they need tweaking anyway). The best suggestion I have for this is to base the failure rate on the current stats as a percentage of the pet's cap instead of using the current system of absolute values. I would also suggest making str, hp and resists weight double for the percentage calculations. Then have something like - if a pet is 20% or less of cap is an automatic breed and 100% cap at something like 80% or 90% failure.

I like how ticket guru has it setup and would be 100% fine with that.. Coli when you get a chance chime in..

we aren't spitting in the wind are we LOL

Yoda