Breeding changes draft

[horique]

I know its not according to any of the 3 ways you described,
but it feels like you're saying:
"You said no to my options? okay then ll do it some other way."

of course you have the full right to do this and it might even be for the best. but my point is that there was no need for this poll this way.

Ps. Neamh, sorry if you felt offended. it came out a bit more harsh than I meant to be
(must be because I quit smoking a few days ago )

[+Colibri]

horique, that's not how I ment. I don't want to impose any specific solution, I posted those 3 but were open for others aswell. Anyway, this week was very stressful for me in real life, plus this issue, so I might not have taken the best decisions.

Looking back right now, if i would have remembered of the breeding failures (how the fails currently are at maxed non-packinstincted and at packinstincted animals) I probably wouldn't have posted this poll. But still, the arguments here are very helpful (and i'll read all of this thread throughly again). This issue has been escalating for the past month, and when i was doing the math i saw that it poses a real problem. I could have just went with whatever solution i thougt was best at the time, so i'm glad i found a more optimal one. I would like the solution to have the least impact on how fun the game is, but still that the inevitability of a flood of maxed pets someday (maybe in a few weeks, maybe in a year) would be solved.

Anyway, I'll make this fix tomorrow, restart the server, and activate the breeders, then read thru all of this again. But first i need to get alot of good sleep.

[Li-Jung]

1 - no
2 - no
3a,b - no, no

the animal breedin process is still new to me but it seems to work fine as it is and i have no problem with the possibilities/limitations of it.
but the major reason that caused me to leave the game and come to forums a thing that i dont do currently unless the shard is down or some creative discussion afects me directly, wich is the case now, i've been waiting days to claim a couple of pets and finaly when its the right time to get them, there ar e no breeders avaible... is there any possibility of doing this kind of discussion without afecting the players fun until a decission has been actualy made and put to test? ... hope you understand that and do something about it.
safe travels.

[+Rayne]

Well, I suppose it is my time to post.

I have been listening to things, and taking everything in from an outside perspective.

I am wondering what the real reason is in all of this.

It appears as if a "hysteria" has brewed, and I think it is out of bounds.

I do not think being "scared" that the market will be "ruined" by the breeding system is a fair.. well, threat really.

Now, along with Colibri, to make Ostards become fair with the breeding rates/rules as other animals, there is no problem with that, and it is just a slight adjustment to bring equality to breeding. If the max of a mule is 1k strength, and in nearing 1k strength/almost maxed level with that mule, there is a higher risk of breed failures. Since Ostards max out at the 250 strength, it becomes nearer to the max at an earlier stage then a mule or dragon. So, it is like this:


Mule at 750 strength is apprx 75% of the way there, and probably Level 38-40, Generation 7-8, and a higher risk for breeding to fail.

Ostard at 180 strength is also 75% of the way to max strength for this animal. and also high level and generation, BUT b/c it is only 250 strength, there is not a high risk of a failed attempt, even though it is 75% of the way to max level.

It is being compared to a 1k strength max, so 180 strength and the generation is being looked at as a very low number, and very unlikely to fail in breeding.

This is where we can make it even so to speak. This DOES NOT mean that there will be actual "changes" but adjustments within the correct range.

It is not like it is being "nerfed" (dumb word). It is only being held to the standard another creature would, which would be: the closer to that creatures maximum str, level, generation, there should be an amount of challenge in breeding without failing. This is already the appropriate challenge for things like Mules and Dragons, it was just not the as high of a challenge for Ostards at this moment.

I hope this makes sense, and assures all of you who are anti change to the breeding system that this is really not a "change", but just an adjustment to make it actually equal in relation to other pets that are bred.


And again, I repeat, that the breeding system as it was set up, has never, and will never be acknowledged at being an exploit or a bug, but was completely legal and acceptable.

We have merely decided to make the rules of Ostard breeding (and pack animal breeding) equal to those of mules and Dragons, etc, as far as the challenge of breeding.

As far as other changes, I will have to speak to Colibri to understand what he has planned but...be sure that you listen to both Colibri and I for the information on the breeding matter, and be confidant that your Admin here have your very best interest at heart. We would not do anything to damage your game play, but to make it the best it can be.


I believe I can speak for Colibri when I say we are most happy to have you all with us. You are some of the reasons we do this everyday.

[+Colibri]

A quick reply to Li-Jung:
I'd say it's better if the breeders are unavailable for a few days than to risk doubling the population of maxed ozzies.

I have already made the changes and am now just trimming how the values are scaled. And i hope the breeders will return in a few hours.

And thank you Rayne, i've been meaning to post something almost what you said. I've been thinking all day how to write it in the simplest way possible, but without leaving anything out, and your post is great.

Like Rayne said, this isnt a "nerf", it's not bringing in another type of obstacle to breeding, it's reconfiguring an already existing one to work as it should.


But to sum it up:
It's 15 lines of code that got blown way out of proportion. If i had thougt of how pack instincted pets almost never fail, i would have changed it, there might be a minor complaint but nothing like this.
This won't destroy the fun of breeding. It will just make maxed pet-instincted animals harder to get. But not anything near impossible.

[+Colibri]

Very important things to note:

1. Backbreeding (putting together a gen1 and gen10) has never been considered a bug or exploit, it's a function of the system. Although i've menchioned it could be limited in the first post of this thread, it most probably wont be. Never say never, but i think that this breeding fail fix will balance it, so i wouldnt worry about backbreeding to become limited.

2. Breeding past gen 10 - this was a sort of a grey area, I knew about it from day one but i left it in, since it is a sort of a trick or a secret to get higher generations. But as i'm checking the scripts i see it is a bug. The programmer did limit that you cannot start the breeding with one that's higher than gen10, but forgot that it's also possible to initiate the breeding from the other pet.
This has been legal. Nothing bad about it, if you knew the trick then good for you. This has already been disabled, but it actually wont make a big difference.

[Ka'Met]

sorry for the problems all,

We were only looking to get pets into the players hands without fear of someone taking that hard work and reproducing a line quickly and cheaply.

if we had known the consequences we would not have even sold ostards that could reproduce. we didnt know abut the back breeding. (for the record we were not profiting on the lines) we spent millions on mating delay deeds so they could get to other players faster so all the mid level vets that could afford them could get them and not feel stuck or that they had to wait.

we didnt know , so again sorry for the problems and delays.

ka/ra

[Li-Jung]

just a quick note to coli aswell i feel like i was missunderstood in this, i totaly suport your devolepment on the shard, i wasnt even into this matter of the ozzies and did that know there was an iminent treath to gameplay or something, i just didmt get much happy for not finding the breeders after the waiting time and all, but of course you did it for a reason. im just glad its fixed now and say that i think you do a great job and hope you keep doing so. thanks.

[leehovan]

After much consideration, i think for the above mentioned solutions.

All = "NO"

If "NO" = true
Implement the following = "Keep the current breeding system"

Else
Accept what is available = "New Breeding system ??? "

End If

Regards

[Marianella]

Meh i dont have any patience for breeding/plants/beehives but when the population grows the amount of breeders will go up as well ...75% of ppl like breeding all kind of pets, also the prices will go down a lot... Ozzies are very famous for their pack instinct, most of ppl will breed them dont be surprised when you see the ozzies at 50-70ks...

[Undertaker]

i actully dont know anything about breeding, and after reading all of this, why not make a script where you CANT breed from someone elses pet, if breeding consists of taming 2 animals, and after all that hard work of breeding to max, an selling them, an having someone else come along and buying that pet, just to backbreed, an basically take all the hard work u put into, make it to where you cant breed off of someone elses breeding work... makes sense?

and the uber weapon to take pet slots, old man is right about that one, we have leveling deeds for that, but uber armor... i would like to see that...

just putting my thoughts in...

[Harabakc]

Honestly, with the chance of sterlization and having to start all over again, breeding is enough of a pain in the ass as is. Even without sterlization the 1-3 breeds solution fixed most of the over saturation issues. I'm more concerned about keeping my own pets well kept and loss free then I am about anyone else. And when I can't reproduce my own pets just to keep my own personal supply(which with 1-3 breeds is difficult enough) I don't see a big problem with it. And I'm one of the biggest proponents of server balance.

[+Colibri]

There also was an idea to be unable to sell any pets that are above gen5 but this all has been solved by a simple bugfix. So i think that this problem is now solved.