Anti-AFK system upgrade

Vote on the shard-related matters and/or give your arguments.
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Anti-AFK system to include everything?

Yes, make it include everything, with some exceptions
22
29%
No
55
71%
 
Total votes: 77

Nelapsi
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Re: Anti-AFK system upgrade

Post by Nelapsi »

I have thought about this off and on since posting yesterday and I have come to this conclusion, if such a change was added to the shard then the automatic assumption would is that "Every player is using an afk script unless you prove otherwise, repeatedly". I am going to blunt with this, if your view of me as a player is that I am cheating then ask me to leave? I am not directing this to myself, this should be every player's statement to the staff.

Anyone who has played here for more then 2 years has seen this coming and suddenly we have to pay the price for your lack of action? You can't tell me no one from staff seen the global discussions concerning what a job afk punishments were, in my opinion.. you get caught once and you lose your weapon at the very least, and if it seems to be a complete disregard for the rules you lose everything you had on you as well. Thats your warning, get caught again... your banned. Does that seem harsh, yes and people said so when I brought something like this up but if you don't do it then the cheaters take over and when they do you finally have staff wake up one day and every player starts to pay for it.

I have passed every afk check, even the ones when I had a gm hunting me down, I don't cheat and just enjoy playing my game so don't punish me because someone else cheats.

Get more staff, I mean come on if this problem is this vast where it needs this kind of solution in your mind.. why not hire more staff to see if that solves the problem (which it will). Do a probation period, hire people that already by demonstrate as players they are dedicated to being on this shard, hire someone that can actually bring something to the shard. If you hire someone that doesn't work, remove them and hire another. This shard runs 24/7, 12 months a year.. don't you think we should have good solid group of people as staff rather then a skeleton crew that looks more like we are on our last days.

For some reason you didn't want to lose the cheaters... how about losing the ones that aren't cheating, do they matter?
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cope80
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Re: Anti-AFK system upgrade

Post by cope80 »

+1 Nelapsi...We need more staff...PERIOD

All the afk checks in the world will not make up for being understaffed.
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Larsa
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Re: Anti-AFK system upgrade

Post by Larsa »

You are going to hate me for this but.... make weapons levelable only in Felucca. Since there's no recalling people will have to literally run and kill stuff around. To counter the fact that you cannot recall, then increase the exp pts just slightly for the inconvenience. At least the afk part is taken care of.

I don't think there was much of a problem with afk mining or ljacking, that I am aware of since there is the captcha system in place. I didn't even know that flax farming was that profitable LOL, but it seems as of late people want to go the lazy road and make a buck of anything that can be automated.

I have a bad feeling about this cause like many players in here, I play the game and I don't want to get caught by the system cause it can't tell whether I am just standing there or breaking the law. With a shard of this magnitude we DO need more personnel... imagine 2 guards with 140+ inmates... that's surreal.
Nelapsi
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Re: Anti-AFK system upgrade

Post by Nelapsi »

[quote="Larsa"]You are going to hate me for this but.... make weapons levelable only in Felucca. Since there's no recalling people will have to literally run and kill stuff around. To counter the fact that you cannot recall, then increase the exp pts just slightly for the inconvenience. At least the afk part is taken care of.
[/quote]

I know I brought something like this up and I am fairly sure I was not the first. Just from certain areas getting abused like red headed step children. I am not sure I would give a bonus xp yet at the initial change, first need to watch how it goes and get a feel for the current speed of progression. This would also fix the current idea that a level 100 weapon is treated like a candy bar rather then some a reward for a lot of hard work. Fel would become a popular place really fast.

[quote="Larsa"]I don't think there was much of a problem with afk mining or ljacking, that I am aware of since there is the captcha system in place. I didn't even know that flax farming was that profitable LOL, but it seems as of late people want to go the lazy road and make a buck of anything that can be automated.
[/quote]

I do think the current timer needs to be increased for resource gathering, I know I am not alone in this but I can go days mining with no checks. Maybe 1 check every 1 to 4 hours perhaps. Or perhaps each player has a resource counter, every thing you do involving resource gathering causes a tick.. get so many ticks there is a check.
Asmodean
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Re: Anti-AFK system upgrade

Post by Asmodean »

I pretty much agree with the more staff requirement, and harsher penalties. Don't forget, all the AFK checks in the world mean nothing, if there is no meaningful punishment. I think once per 60 minutes or so is a good number, only because some people don't play for long periods, and might never get afk checked, like with the current system.


Fel could be scripted to be afk'd like anywhere else, but it might curb quite a bit of abuse, since that would require a lot more effort, and make it a lot less efficient, since you would most likely be forced to wait for respawns, as opposed to just recalling to the next full spot.


Ilsanor, a contract tool wouldn't work, because i would just hand my friend a weapon, and tell them to contract it to me so it wouldn't get taken if i were to afk... Its a good thought otherwise. Unless, once you applied a level deed, the weapon got account bound, and by issuing a contract, someone else could use it... but that just opens the door for more abuses that i'm sure aren't even apparent right now.
kenarn
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Re: Anti-AFK system upgrade

Post by kenarn »

*coughs*
quoted from a above post by me
"i do think that a totem like system would be a great idea, but instead of loosing gold or tokens for a set amount of time, make it where the weapon itself has a decreased % of experiance per kill, to make it harder for that person to level, also make it where +10 deeds cannot be used on that weapon until the period of time is up."

this will atleast add more dificulty to afk weapon levleing. if you get caught your jailed weapon is impounded and once handed back it has -25% or -50% experiance tag on it, so no matter who uses it, they will get less exp a kill and you would not be able to use +10 deeds so it isnt like money will buy your way out.

im not saying never ban someone but for the first or second offense that could be a punishment and if the person just doesnt care then they should be banned.
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Melkor
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Re: Anti-AFK system upgrade

Post by Melkor »

Get more staff, they will do the AFK checks. Automation is not the answer.

As well I agree with Nelapsi's points.
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+Nyx
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Re: Anti-AFK system upgrade

Post by +Nyx »

I don't have a ton of time to go into super detail about every aspect of what I think the correct solution would be, but I'll just touch on the highlights.

I've seen a few people say "the staff" posted this poll. V and I had nothing to do with this poll, had heard nothing of it, until this point where I am stating my opinion, as he sits here nodding in agreement and chipping in as I type. Please do not stab us with your pitchforks, lol.

While I agree with everyone that more staff would be nice, it would not solve the AFK problem the way many seem to think it would. New staff members need to be trained. It takes a long time for the new staffer to learn everything. It also takes a lot of Colibri's time since he would have to train them. Counselors can't do AFK rounds, so the person would have to work their way up to GM. That took almost 2 months for me, and I moved up quickly. Furthermore, the current staff members have all been confirmed and proven as trustworthy people. The same would not necessarily be able to be said about any new staff for quite some time. After all, look what happened to the previous 2 staffers. They didn't just quit, they were removed. And it took a long time for that to happen. So a new GM doing rounds would have just as difficult a time as I do with the constant litany of "you're cheating!", "you're picking on me!", and Colibri would have to look into all of *those* as well, even more in-depth than he has to do with me (because he would not know a new staffer as well as he does me). Also, AFK rounds are *boring*. They take a long time, they are frustrating, and they are stressful. No staff member likes doing them. I do them when I am on and have a chance to, because I know they need to be done. But I hate doing them. New staff members aren't necessarily going to want to do them any more than I do, either, and it isn't a requirement of us, it's a request. Making it a requirement would make for less volunteers, and less quality ones. Of every 30+ applicants, MAYBE one has the right motivation and attitude and trustworthiness to be a great staff member. If I was required to do AFK rounds every time I logged on Nyx, I'd have to log on a lot less, because I don't always have time to answer all the pages in the queue/recently escalated queue AND do a full set of rounds as well.

Someone suggested a player-induced AFK gump, with limits for how often a player can trigger it on another specific player. I like this idea. I also think that pretty frequent automated AFK checks for all the activities in the game that are prohibited while AFK are a great idea. I feel this should apply for crafting as well; there should be a crafting-training room that you can only use if the specific crafting skill you are utilizing is under 100.0. There need to be MUCH harsher punishments, as I stated my opinion on in the other AFK violations thread. Someone else asked 'well what if someone is leveling a weapon for someone else'? I'm sorry, but oh well. Level it yourself, only let someone you trust level for you, or ask for collateral for your weapon. We cannot trust any AFK violator to be truthful in anything, let alone whether it's their weapon. I also feel that auctioning confiscated weapons is not a good idea. Sorry, Anarchy! In theory it'd be neat, but in practice it would not work out well IMO. I am all for public posting of the names of AFK violators for violations past the warning stage. But to try and sell the weapons means that again there isn't necessarily much loss for the violator. They could buy it back. So yes they lose gold, but many players do not care about losing gold. I say permanent removal of the weapon, period, because that is a scary prospect for ANY leveler. I would also never vote in favor of staff doing anything with resources ie: selling them. I feel that resources that are confiscated should just be deleted.

Yes, this all means more specific coding for Colibri, and I do sympathize with how busy he is (Especially being so busy myself lately). However, it is my personal opinion that AFK checking for 'everything' is going to kill this shard.
Nelapsi
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Re: Anti-AFK system upgrade

Post by Nelapsi »

So basically.. getting new staff is to time consuming so why bother?
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+Nyx
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Re: Anti-AFK system upgrade

Post by +Nyx »

Is that what I said? Or did I say it's a good idea, but not a magical solution to the AFK problem.

I have always supported hiring new staff. There are 2 applicants I have actively supported the hiring of, and a few others I have said I would vote yes for. There's nothing more I can do beyond that.

However, hiring more staff - while it will help the shard in many ways, provided they are good people - would not be an instant fix on the AFK issue, for the reasons I explained in my previous post.

Please do not put words in my mouth, it makes me grumpy.
Nelapsi
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Re: Anti-AFK system upgrade

Post by Nelapsi »

[quote="+Nyx"]Is that what I said? Or did I say it's a good idea, but not a magical solution to the AFK problem.

I have always supported hiring new staff. There are 2 applicants I have actively supported the hiring of, and a few others I have said I would vote yes for. There's nothing more I can do beyond that.

However, hiring more staff - while it will help the shard in many ways, provided they are good people - would not be an instant fix on the AFK issue, for the reasons I explained in my previous post.

Please do not put words in my mouth, it makes me grumpy.[/quote]

There was a question mark there for a reason, while I am all for hiring more staff and do believe it will go along way to solving this current and a few other issues.. I do agree and know it is not an instant fix but then again these problems have been going on for a while and coding a new system isn't an instant fix either.

Grumpy would be when you find out the owner of the shard you like playing at thinks everyone is cheating so dreams up ideas that treats his entire player base as if they are cheaters. That's grumpy
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anarchy
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Re: Anti-AFK system upgrade

Post by anarchy »

personally i would delete the weapon, but someone said that's not fair to someone (i forgot who). so i had to think of some other solution...buy back (fine). i say if your caught afk resource gathering you should be stripped naked and paralized above brit bank with a T-shirt that says..."I got caught afk resource gathering, and the gm's took everything but this stinking shirt". :)

i agree it's gotta be hard to find the right people to do the staffing erm.. stuff. you couldn't pay me enough eds/gold to do that job. waaaaaay too much headaches. being staff is like asking people to step on my genitals every time i logged in, while saying, "you step on them wrong please do it again".

also to reply to the car thing... not everyone can be a mechanic, but everyone can level their own things/get resources. I think the correct story would be. you are a mechanic, but your too lazy to fix your own car so you take it to a shop. the shop is not paying it's taxes, and so the government seizes everything for liquidation. that would really be the correct way of putting it. stick with apples and apples not apples and oranges. you can argue the fact not everyone can level a weapon...and the argue would be YES they can, but it will take longer (younger players). don't have to go take on a rune beetle, because i think every mob gives exp. some more than others.

i understand Ilsanor why you don't like things confiscation...you've been caught before afk resource gathering, and only got away with a warning... a few time, and you want other people to have the same chance. i understand that.
Jecks
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Re: Anti-AFK system upgrade

Post by Jecks »

Automated AFK checking is a poor solution to begin with. Its like saying setting up a few cameras around town is the solution to stopping crime. No, now people just know they need to go around cameras to do their dirty work. There needs to be someone policing consistantly to make it stop. Nyx stated its a stressful and just downright boring task, this much goes without saying. Maybe some of our donation money would be put to better use by tossing GMs a little commission cash for nabbing the AFKers? A little incentive goes a long way.

Just sayin'.
Nelapsi
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Re: Anti-AFK system upgrade

Post by Nelapsi »

+Nyx

Let me state this, you have zero to do with any of this. I know for a fact +C runs this show and all decisions are his to make and final. I do believe there is an incredible pool of talent on this shard but for whatever reason it is never used. We have had people begging, offering to help code and one person even did a great deal of the code himself for the bod system but instead we are getting a draconian afk system. Trust me, I have had a staff member here constantly afk checking me and it is not fun so if I am grumpy perhaps it is because I have worn those shoes before...
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+Nyx
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Re: Anti-AFK system upgrade

Post by +Nyx »

Just wanted to clarify that even with frequent automated AFK checks, I would still do AFK rounds when I had time. Rounds could stay a "please do this when you can" thing for the staff, and the automated checks would just add another layer of help in catching more AFKers, especially when the staff aren't currently on or able to do rounds.

Edit:
Nel, I get what you are saying, and agree that treating all players across the board like criminals is not an acceptable solution to the problem. Believe me, just because we are staff does not mean we are not subjected to just as many if not more issues of that nature than the players. After all, any time I punish a player for any rule violation of any kind, I have to be prepared to essentially go to war to defend it because of the inevitable "I'm emailing Colibri", which is also inevitably followed by a big ol' rigamarole.
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