Planned ED price increases and changes in 2023

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MagicUser
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Re: Planned ED price increases and changes in 2023

Post by MagicUser »

Wil wrote:
Fri Dec 23, 2022 7:11 pm
Now, suppose instead that you wanted to -stabilize- the exchange rate. You want ED to center around 50k gold and you want tokens to center around 2 gold. And you want them to stay there. How might you do that?

Well, what if you leave the Relayer deed in the ED room for 500ED, add it to the gold stone for 25M gold and add it to the token stone for 12.5M tokens? Now any time the exchange rate moves off center, folks can make money through arbitrage: buy the down currency (pushing its price back up), buy a relayer deed in the down currency and sell it in one of the up currencies.
I personally am all for allowing a renewable resource to be the currency for ed items.

However, I get the feeling that this would be completely against the current ed room setup. Perhaps this is outdated. Perhaps it needs to change. I am just pointing out that, currently, eds are not renewable. The items in the ed room give value to eds. If the items went for other renewable currencies, there may be no need for eds.

While I am not sure what the effects of removing that incentive would be, I imagine that the people buying eds would be those trying to shortcut to stuff.

I think making them available for an equivalent in gold, might not be a good idea. Gold is much easier to get than any other currency (thus its value). If the currencies don't have high valued items at all play levels then they will become obsolete. Precisely what I believe we are seeing with tokens.

Tokens
Low to mid tier. There are not really any high tier token items. Maybe 2 or 3. Bless deeds being in the mid to high tier range and lvl deeds being in low, mid, and high. Renewable.

Gold
All tiers. Currency standard. Items trades and auctions for higher tiers. Renewable.

Elven Notes
There are elven notes? :wink: Heartwood stuff (arrows and ultimate quiver aesthetic) has some good stuff. Some imps from salarion's portal map I think... I get the feeling the main tide for this currency going obsolete is that there is neither a high supply nor a high demand. Technically renewable.

EDs
All tiers. Mainly mid and high tier items. Non renewable.
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Melkor
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Re: Planned ED price increases and changes in 2023

Post by Melkor »

Not much left to add. Lots of good points here. I think the concern about it driving new players away is quite valid. One way to counter act that would be to time your ED room hike out with the release of new content. New content will surely bring new and especially returning players back.
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lnickos
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Re: Planned ED price increases and changes in 2023

Post by lnickos »

If I take myself out of a player's point of view and look on as an arbitrator, I will have to agree with Colbi that the value of already bought items is currently going down over time because the real-life cost to obtain those items is going down. If you agree that the amount of effort required to get items should stay constant over time, then increasing the ED cost of items -or- increasing the cost to buy ED is the right thing to do. It's just that a sudden increase does not bode well for stability. Gradual small increases create smaller waves and gives people time to adjust to a new reality.

Also, I think it is fairer to change the cost to buy ED rather than increasing the price of in-game goods. This is because the current ED people have in-game are from the past when inflation was lower. By increasing the prices, those people will lose value of the current ED in their possession unless they spend it before the hike which pressures them into making time-sensitive purchasing decisions.
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Cerrera
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Re: Planned ED price increases and changes in 2023

Post by Cerrera »

Hmm think making ed purchases available in different currencies, is interesting idea in terms of stabilizing, but it will be stick with two sides.
While right now eds mostly being generated by ''channeling energy from other universe'' there will be much less need for that, what can slightly change multipliers, strongly affect people having trades based on eds , but am sure make stable rate, and look more welcoming for people who can't donate.

Making eds cost more, think it will just make them more rare/expensive, while i understand that real life inflation can cause problems, if that's being left without attention for too long. But if its not really necessary, than maybe delaying that, could be better option, while mess around world settles. From other side, suppose 80% donators already has everything, whats needed, so not much change for them (they can keep selling). Also nice to hear, well funded, so i can know that bonuses isn't asking for help, but gift . Also if plan of making area's with gm rights for people who want to express with creations, will come real, than some ed room purchases can get less desirable, so stabilizing possible drop.

Making ed purchases to cost more,(ok idk... which ones, but if all) suppose can make them cheaper per one, and overall in game effort consumption possibly stay same. But i think veterans having stockpiled lots of eds , will avoid this, and make some profit or at least not losing situation.

Suppose all this parts is already discussed, so giving just my point of view and getting to read all discussion :D
P.s. yeah proverb ''Stick has two sides'' is really getting my favorite in last years,maybe its such age.
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Re: Planned ED price increases and changes in 2023

Post by Silent »

lnickos wrote:
Sat Dec 24, 2022 3:52 pm
the value of already bought items is currently going down over time because the real-life cost to obtain those items is going down.
I still can't understand this. If your local coffee shop is selling an espresso for 1 dollar for the past 10 years its not you has a client that is losing money. Now calling the coffee an ED, since the acquired good can not be re-sold, you are not "investing money here" and thus, it is not losing nor gaining any sort of value from your originally invested amount.
We are talking about an in-game asset that can never be, legally, reversed back to original money here... Its sunken cash, literally, so there is no inflation for the donator whatsoever, period. And the fact that it doesn't is that ED price continues to rise in game while stable outside.
This is because the current ED people have in-game are from the past when inflation was lower. By increasing the prices, those people will lose value of the current ED in their possession unless they spend it before the hike which pressures them into making time-sensitive purchasing decisions.
Unless you are creating a new currency, why should ED lose value? this is a completely decentralized and monopolized market and any vet here can tell you that ED used to be 48k to 52k many years ago and those same ED are now selling for more 10k which means that in theory they gained value. And that is exactly what will happen if the real life price of ED raises... all your ED stack will gain value.

You can not forget that ED are generated by either donations or voting and for them to exist the server needs to remain attractive to gain more donations. Also, when we buy a relayer we are not creating a circular economy flux we are destroying currency (you are drinking your coffee)...

The way the server is, and with this new plan ahead I can easily say that everything that is not noob friendly will happen.

Now regarding the impact on game economy:
(increase ED price in euros) - If donations generate less ED - ED price will go up
(increase item price in EDS) - If ED cost of items goes up - it will depend on the state of the shard...

And what does this mean in numbers? for a player who isn't able to donate is a change (at 59k per ED if unchanged) of 6 million gold making a total of 35.400 million gold coins for a Relayer deed. Does this seem a attractive for new players?
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Osgaron
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Re: Planned ED price increases and changes in 2023

Post by Osgaron »

As a new player of less than 40 days, not a huge fan of an increase in ED pricing :cry:. Most importantly around the holidays when most folks are broke from spending extra money on family and loved ones.
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Re: Planned ED price increases and changes in 2023

Post by Joshuashw »

What is your vision for uoex and the proposed ed change? @+C

are you open to suggestions ?
kurganwins
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Re: Planned ED price increases and changes in 2023

Post by kurganwins »

Things are already too expensive on this shard. Don't see the point in raising the prices if you are well off server wise. The only people that can afford a lot of these items and the auctions items are the people who are on constantly working or many who afk recall to Balron spawns for hours.
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Re: Planned ED price increases and changes in 2023

Post by Deorum »

I thought 500 ED for a relayer was steep 10 years ago when I started playing here and EDs averaged 48-50k ea. Ive played off and on for 10 years, sometimes with the goal of making gold and sometimes not, and I've never even come close to amassing a fraction of what some of these players spend at auctions.
I'm not sure what the problem is, but I can tell you from my standpoint that for an average casual player the costs of most items is already astronomical. I can only imagine the turn off it will be to new players that have to grind for a 600 ED relayer or similar.
malkari
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Re: Planned ED price increases and changes in 2023

Post by malkari »

Dude..

40 Euros for me, right now is ~60$..rates are high and it doesn't look like it will change soon.. I'm not sure I can follow on this one..

maybe accepting a new currency? Like CAD maybe? You know.. since the shard is hosted in Canada.. before our totally new created just for you Internet Revenue Agency gets to you for discrimination (believe me all that can happen one day..) justSayin'!

More seriously, changing this side will make you go off chart of competition and can hurt a lot. A small change on the other side will help you stay competitive.

Just my 2 cents..
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Re: Planned ED price increases and changes in 2023

Post by dreamstalker »

dude some of us are on fixed income n "donate "what we can when we can.. but i for 1 wont be joining in the the price increase fiasco. i understand the needs of the shard, but in these times of strife and turmoil any spare cash i get is goin into.223 n 9mm various other ammo types...we may be needin it in the not to distant future...but if necessary and i have to resort to it i can always throw puter parts at the bad guys
I keep a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take an ass whoopin! just cause you aint paranoid doesnt mean they aint after you
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Muolke
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Re: Planned ED price increases and changes in 2023

Post by Muolke »

dreamstalker wrote:
Thu Dec 29, 2022 8:02 pm
dude some of us are on fixed income n "donate "what we can when we can.. but i for 1 wont be joining in the the price increase fiasco. i understand the needs of the shard, but in these times of strife and turmoil any spare cash i get is goin into.223 n 9mm various other ammo types...we may be needin it in the not to distant future...but if necessary and i have to resort to it i can always throw puter parts at the bad guys
Dis u?

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Re: Planned ED price increases and changes in 2023

Post by Geriatric »

i think this might be himImage
Dirtybook
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Re: Planned ED price increases and changes in 2023

Post by Dirtybook »

I know very few care for what I have to say at any point, buuuuUUUuuuuut... Here is my 2 cents.

There are a lot of valid concerns for many people on this forum post, and all trying to understand the "what for" and "why" of this price hike is only a secondary issue. However, you all have missed the biggest key factors as to what would convince someone to go this direction.

I created an account over 8 years ago, I played for like a week, life happened, and I couldn't get back to it for about 5 years. I come back, and it was during a time of a gradual decline on the population of Excelsior. Fast forward a few years later, and there are a lot fewer players that when I returned initially. At this point, I only knew the existence of +C and +Kimane. I have seen no other +Admin present for over 3 years now.

I've heard stories about how there where tons of Events, and Seasonal Events, but I was not here to enjoy them. Now they are gone, and I am none the wiser. Until I see items for sale on vendors from literally years ago. That is one thing that gave me pause. The second, is the slow pace of Events, and how the holiday events, (Specifically Halloween and Christmas) are better left to players that are far more equipped to fight the bosses, and ask for prices low and mid-tiered players scoff at.

When I goto TC, and see vendors that have the same goods at 9+ to 12 months, still stagnating on them, That tells me the economy is "Not" moving forward, and that a handful of players hold the massive wealth of the server, due to what I would call "Bad Calls" to the game mechanics them selves.
I personally wont do anything more than mention any thing but "Gold Farmers", (no names) as that's a well known, but over looked problem.

There are far more glaring problems that I can see other than accounting, real world inflation, or even the gold farmers them selves.

This is where I get brutally honest, and don't care about the repercussions of my following statements.... Love me or Hate me.. I simply don't care. I enjoy this server, and some of the people. But, if this gets me booted and banned, so be it. I am who I am.

1) You have instant healing with 220 dex. This lopsided mechanic makes the game to easy to play. Or rather "Not" play, which allows "Gold Farmers", provided they have a BoH to hold the bandages, do there farming for endless gold. This means less donations to your server. (obviously)

2) You over powered the Yumi, and Whirlwind Weapons. This lopsided choice to make almost every other weapon obsolete, (except for single target Golf Farming, Crushing Blow specifically) allows less of a play dynamic to your player base. Everyone becomes the same, and Inflation to Weapons to be turned into Yumi or a Whirlwind weapon, due to extremely high demand, becomes a reality. If Whirlwind weapons and Yumi's operated on OSI standard, like they used to, less people would bother with them. I can understand that this was done to garner the purchase of EDs, to Change Weapon Deeds. However, it still creates a problem. I commonly see weapons for 50 to 600 EDs in TC. Yet another thing to chase off new players.

3) The loot table is poor. The strongest, and often wealthier players have access to the better weapon and jewelry drops, and ask for prices most new players would just rather not pay. Again, this hurts new players coming onto the server, and even more so on them staying. No one wants to grind for days, just to pay 200 ED for a 4x46% weapon that's been leveled and placed on someone's vendor. Some vendors try to charge that with none leveled weapons. Also, gold is understandably reduced due to level able weapon deeds. However, adjusting it to where there is almost nothing of value only slows the top tier players down. the Low and Mid-tiered players, suffer. Making grinding not so pleasant, and you lose new players. (Again, less donations for the future. Attendance GOOD!.. Low numbers of players.... BAD!)

4) TC Vendors. You will not be making people go out and play, or actively look for someone to buy there wares, when they don't have to do anything, but gold farm, and throw stuff up there. Not much more I can say, other than TC Vendors operating in the capacity they do, is a bad economical ideal, that's far exceeded its time. It helps drive inflation.

5) Other servers don't allow people to teleport into dungeons, or out of them. Some servers also don't allow someone who has gathers resources, or just finished a fight, to immediately teleport away, either. There are 2 servers I have seen, that wont allow you to bring a mount into a dungeon. It shrinks and goes to your backpack, until you leave said dungeon. Copying this, will change how people hunt, and who comes to your server, and who will stay. (Keep in mind, UOEX, is a copy of someone else's work and ideas. There should be no reason why you have to shun things due to someone else already doing it. If it works, it works. Stops Gold Farming, unless you are in favor of it?)

6) [exex. Is a nice idea, but in the end, makes it to easy for people to "speed along" rather than participate in the game. Put a stone, in the donation room, make a flat rate for EDs, and leave it there. Also allow players to "Sale" to the same stone, so just like with [exex, you have a finite supply. This way no one can complain about it, and donations will still be a regular thing.

7) Donation Room Items. Increasing the price of them is a good way to end up playing "Spin the Bottle", and end up kissing the family dog on the mouth. If you want to fix how players purchase things, don't bother with reducing the prices, or raising them. Make more modes of game play viable.
Give "Mages" the ability to do more damage, if they use a spell book. Put spell book Slayers up in the donation room, and take it out of "Inscription". Make summons harder to dispel, and grant them some more HP than they get summoned with now. (minus EVs) Grant necromancy spell damage modifiers with SDI. Specifically Poison Strike, and make things like Evil Omen useful. "Un gut" Ninjitsu. It's almost the most useless magic skill on this server. Put other weapon specials on the map. Like Armor Ignore from Fencing Weapons. Make the poison "tick" damage on dipped weapons go 2 times faster, or even 3 times faster, and increase the duration a 2-3 more ticks. If you want people to "Use" items, and have the ability to put more items up to be used, then you might want to roll up your sleeves. Or, you could just tell people they need to pay more. (Which everyone seems apposed to.) The possibilities are endless.

8) Listen to others. Your good at programming, but your not that creative. I know this one will seem unfriendly, but you seem very closed off to almost any idea for upgrading skills, or the server in any way. You run this server like its a office, with cubicles, and a water cooler for a handful to stand around and high five each other, while everyone else (lower level or mid-tiered players) just walk by, with there hands in there pockets and shoulders slumped, and not daring to look anywhere but forward, as they pass the "Cool guys". Thats a uncomfortable feeling for new players, or anyone who doesn't "get with it" to be on your server. Your server attendance is dropping. The creative people (so I have been told), meaning the other +Admin, did a lot, that you don't seem to be capable of. Now they are gone. I my self, as well as plenty of others, have given you good idea after good idea, and some there ideas, even some of mine, "not so good". However, we gave them, and you skirt past them. It is your server, so, do what you want. Just realize that you might want to hear some of the less wealthy players of your UO server, to revitalize it. Because your Gold Farmers, and Auction Hounds, are not who you should be listening to. Thats not gaming. Thats the Forbes 500, UO style. Your forgetting everyone, who will at some point, donate. Often due to lack of patience. (Wanting it now.)

The problem is not money. Its lack of creativity. The most popular servers are the creative ones, that occasionally expand there servers, add new content, quests, items and events. (not just open up portals to champs, and hope you get a skull) None of these servers have relayers, or weapons with a screen full of hit spells, nor do they have infinite skill points. (they often only have 700-800 max) They also don't have infinite healing. Yet they have hundreds of players, and some have over 1-2 thousand players...

You know what more players on the server means? "More Donations" They don't get there player bases, by raising prices, and making things harder to get. Have you seen Pandora? Its a graveyard! The owner of that place did what your starting to suggest now. I have talked to the guy, he is far out there like Pluto... and he single handedly ruined his server attendance. Some of the good servers give the players more to do. Allow more ways to play, which garners diversity. I have started to learn to ignore the fact, that a weapon strike, or a single arrow does so much more damage than a lightning bolt, called from the heavens on a mob does. I'm learning to live with that fact, and it no longer hurts my feelings. Nore do I care about the people who call me stupid for not going straight for how they play. (or rather how 99% of the server plays). I like being a mage, and to tell the truth, I see no issues with the Magery system on UOEX. It could use some upgrades on equipment, but function? No issues.

I will end my opinions, by saying simply this. I like your server, and I do like you (though I don't know you that well), but you seem to be thinking more like a "Corporate Suit", that someone who owns a UO server. To me, this is just a game. Raise the prices, I will stay, lower them, I stay. (unless what I have said here upsets you to the point of banning me) I just derive joy from playing a mage. Its not me you need to worry about. Its those that come here, and leave, that you should be worrying bout. less people, less donations, less money for you. "Period"

Don't let a full wallet for the "moment", cloud your judgement. There may come a time a moth flies out of it. I'm only saying what no one else on your server has the guts to say out loud. Your the +Admin, people kiss your boots, but some times the people you should be hearing, wont do that.. I tip my hat to you sir.... *bows*
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Melkor
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Re: Planned ED price increases and changes in 2023

Post by Melkor »

Dirtybook wrote:
Mon Jan 23, 2023 2:47 am

I personally wont do anything more than mention any thing but "Gold Farmers", (no names) as that's a well known, but over looked problem.
Wait what's wrong with farming gold? Isn't that a central aspect of the game? Or are you talking about people who use scripts to recall around and use scripts for all aspects of the game? I love manually running around and killing monsters and collecting gold, you know, playing the game. I don't think it's fair to paint everyone with the same brush.
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