Getting Old
Getting Old
Seeing this is getting really old, really fast
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Re: Getting Old
Take it out of the immediate queue and have them contact you when they are available. No more message
Re: Getting Old
My guess is that it's not the sight of the message that is bothering him, but the content of it.
TDC Guild
Re: Getting Old
I agree with that statement. However...
Staff doesn't always have their "online status" accurate. I've gotten that message while they are chatting in [c and while events are going on. Perhaps the issue is something that must be dealt with by a higher power than the present online staff members. In which case, take it out of the immediate queue and when a staff member logs in that can properly handle the page it will be taken care of.
I recall being told at one point that staff are not required to answer pages. Which means that if you have previously had bad encounters with staff members then that staff member isn't even required to acknowledge the existence of your page. So that is also a possibility. In which case, take it out of the immediate queue and when a staff member logs in that is willing to handle the page it will be taken care of.
Staff doesn't always have their "online status" accurate. I've gotten that message while they are chatting in [c and while events are going on. Perhaps the issue is something that must be dealt with by a higher power than the present online staff members. In which case, take it out of the immediate queue and when a staff member logs in that can properly handle the page it will be taken care of.
I recall being told at one point that staff are not required to answer pages. Which means that if you have previously had bad encounters with staff members then that staff member isn't even required to acknowledge the existence of your page. So that is also a possibility. In which case, take it out of the immediate queue and when a staff member logs in that is willing to handle the page it will be taken care of.
Re: Getting Old
A few good things for everyone to note:
We can be, and usually are, online without it showing up for the queue. That's a purposeful choice on Coli's part, he agrees with the rest of us that being able to page and see if any staff are online whether they want to be seen or not is a terrible idea. Imagine the folks who'd send a decoy page to check if anyone could be doing AFK rounds. There'd be easy ways to script it to sound an alarm when a staffer signed on and lots of other shady manipulations of that system. It'll show someone online for awhile after one of us answers pages, and even that might get removed. There have been discussions of making it so that when you send a page, you only get an alert that your page is still active and much less often.
The staff are not required to answer pages when we are on. There are certain circumstances in which we 'must' do certain things, but answering pages isn't one of them. There are dozens of other things for us to be doing that isn't answering pages, particularly for myself, +V and +C. Coli has a very busy RL and a really large list of things that we absolutely need him to do before we can even consider opening either facet. V and I have facets to open (which means map edits, coding a hundred or more quests, decorating, planning, balancing, scripting, and so on), and on top of Elysium I have numerous other projects/events in the works. I just ran an event last night.
A previous post mentioned that if you've been awful to a particular staffer previously, well they're not going to exactly be motivated to help you, so they probably won't. We're volunteers, not slaves, so a lot of what we do is based on our interest and desire to do so. If someone crosses the line with me to where I won't be answering their pages, I inform them. If I haven't personally informed you that you're one such problem-child, then that doesn't apply to you from me. I can't speak for the other staff, but I know +V tends to inform people when they've crossed that line as well.
It's also important to keep in mind that if you address your page to a particular staff member, especially if it's addressed to/requires Colibri, a lot of the time the rest of us leave those pages in the queue even while we are answering pages. This is because all of us tend to check the active queue first when when we log on, then the escalated queue. We're generally only supposed to escalate a page for another staff member if we know for a fact they aren't on/going to be available for some time. That's easy for us to know with the rest of the staff but since we never know when Coli is going to be on, pages for him (like yours have all been, Belken...) tend to sit in the queue for awhile, then get escalated later.
If a page isn't descriptive ('i need help' instead of explaining the issue), is missing necessary information ('I want my houses moved', but the page isn't sent from where the houses are being moved to), is rude/passive aggressive ('you guys stole my bow', 'I guess I'm just not important enough to reply to'), or is otherwise unintelligible, confusing, or offensive then you're not going to get a quick reply, if any at all.
Another good thing to remember is that one is not the most important person on the shard. The expectation that one's page should be answered immediately is silly. Waiting awhile for a page response sucks, but try playing any other MMO. You'll pay to play and wait a whole lot longer for a response. In other games and on other shards, you can't even get the level of service from staff that you can get here. Other free shards either don't keep staff for these sorts of things, or the staff they do keep are corrupt, immature pleebs with no real creativity or skill at staffing.
If the repetitive alerts regarding the status of your page bothers you, escalate it yourself to the other queue. +Requiem and I make it a habit to check that queue as much as we check the active queue. Which, by the way, is a lot. Even when I am on and developing for the facets, creating an event or am otherwise busy doing something else, I keep an eye on the queue. You might wait awhile, but you'll get an answer.
It's also wise to note that there's such a thing as the portal. Just because we're talking in wc, doesn't mean we're even in game. V and I both frequently monitor world chat via portal while we're away from the game. You should generally assume that if you see us talking in world chat, we're either working on a project or using the portal.
Another one we hear all the time is "just hire more staff". As if that's so easy. Yes, there are a ton of people on the shard who would volunteer to be staff, but almost none who would be a good fit, or the right kind of personality. There is so much more involved in staffing, so much more going on behind the scenes that none of you have any idea about. Ask Requiem, I'm sure he was quite shocked once he became staff. It isn't as easy as just picking someone. There has to be the right personality, the person has to get along with the rest of us, they have to be an honorable and trustworthy person (otherwise they're just going to cheat and cause huge drama), they have to be knowledgeable about the game and Excelsior itself, they have to be very quick to learn, independent thinkers, team-oriented, and they can't be anybody well-known on the shard (or else, huge drama). There are at least a dozen other factors that are really needed to find a good staffer. Volunteers for staffing are a dime a dozen. Excellent staffers who'll be willing and able to churn out creative, extensive events and content while being involved in the shard community and not being so much as slightly tempted to cheat are nearly impossible to find. On top of that, hiring a new person means a big time sink for Colibri as well as myself; he has to spend immense amounts of time monitoring and training the new person, and then the ball is in my court to help the newbie staffer get their feet on the ground in the day to day. Making a hiring mistake is a massive issue that takes months to truly 'fix', and causes so many ripple effects over the shard; Colibri has to be very careful in hiring anyone and that's why we have only the numbers we have and why 'just hire more staff' is a silly thing to say.
Last but not least, remember that we are human too. We aren't just robots who are here to serve you. We have lives away from Excelsior, with all the trials and tribulations, joys and tragedies as anyone else. My father died last year, and some monstrous individual had the nerve to chew me out for not being around to answer their page, even after they'd been informed I was out of state for my father's funeral. We are not paid for staffing. We are volunteers. That means that this is a hobby for us. There have been staff before whose motivations for staffing were selfish, so they'd cheat to benefit their player, but those staff don't last here. Staffing, when done by people like myself and V (and as far as I can tell, Requiem too) - who would rather cut off a limb than cheat or allow others to do so - is a labor of absolute, pure love. We have absolutely no reason to stay staffing except that we love the shard, we enjoy the hobby, and we simply want to.
So, be patient. If you see us talking in wc and not answering you, there's a reason. It's very easy for us to type in wc while we work on an event or code a quest, or use the portal while we're away from the desk all together. if we're in the middle of developing a project, it's not so easy to stop what we're doing and answer a page. If it is an easy page to answer without dropping what I'm doing, I answer them. Otherwise they'll have to wait. The work I do benefits the entire shard, and that is more important than someone having to wait awhile for a service. Y'all have it really, really, really good here on Excelsior, it'd be excellent if everyone recognized that and didn't get uppity and offended that they have to wait. I've had to wait longer at the emergency room with a broken limb than most of you have ever waited to hear back from me for a page I could assist you with.
We can be, and usually are, online without it showing up for the queue. That's a purposeful choice on Coli's part, he agrees with the rest of us that being able to page and see if any staff are online whether they want to be seen or not is a terrible idea. Imagine the folks who'd send a decoy page to check if anyone could be doing AFK rounds. There'd be easy ways to script it to sound an alarm when a staffer signed on and lots of other shady manipulations of that system. It'll show someone online for awhile after one of us answers pages, and even that might get removed. There have been discussions of making it so that when you send a page, you only get an alert that your page is still active and much less often.
The staff are not required to answer pages when we are on. There are certain circumstances in which we 'must' do certain things, but answering pages isn't one of them. There are dozens of other things for us to be doing that isn't answering pages, particularly for myself, +V and +C. Coli has a very busy RL and a really large list of things that we absolutely need him to do before we can even consider opening either facet. V and I have facets to open (which means map edits, coding a hundred or more quests, decorating, planning, balancing, scripting, and so on), and on top of Elysium I have numerous other projects/events in the works. I just ran an event last night.
A previous post mentioned that if you've been awful to a particular staffer previously, well they're not going to exactly be motivated to help you, so they probably won't. We're volunteers, not slaves, so a lot of what we do is based on our interest and desire to do so. If someone crosses the line with me to where I won't be answering their pages, I inform them. If I haven't personally informed you that you're one such problem-child, then that doesn't apply to you from me. I can't speak for the other staff, but I know +V tends to inform people when they've crossed that line as well.
It's also important to keep in mind that if you address your page to a particular staff member, especially if it's addressed to/requires Colibri, a lot of the time the rest of us leave those pages in the queue even while we are answering pages. This is because all of us tend to check the active queue first when when we log on, then the escalated queue. We're generally only supposed to escalate a page for another staff member if we know for a fact they aren't on/going to be available for some time. That's easy for us to know with the rest of the staff but since we never know when Coli is going to be on, pages for him (like yours have all been, Belken...) tend to sit in the queue for awhile, then get escalated later.
If a page isn't descriptive ('i need help' instead of explaining the issue), is missing necessary information ('I want my houses moved', but the page isn't sent from where the houses are being moved to), is rude/passive aggressive ('you guys stole my bow', 'I guess I'm just not important enough to reply to'), or is otherwise unintelligible, confusing, or offensive then you're not going to get a quick reply, if any at all.
Another good thing to remember is that one is not the most important person on the shard. The expectation that one's page should be answered immediately is silly. Waiting awhile for a page response sucks, but try playing any other MMO. You'll pay to play and wait a whole lot longer for a response. In other games and on other shards, you can't even get the level of service from staff that you can get here. Other free shards either don't keep staff for these sorts of things, or the staff they do keep are corrupt, immature pleebs with no real creativity or skill at staffing.
If the repetitive alerts regarding the status of your page bothers you, escalate it yourself to the other queue. +Requiem and I make it a habit to check that queue as much as we check the active queue. Which, by the way, is a lot. Even when I am on and developing for the facets, creating an event or am otherwise busy doing something else, I keep an eye on the queue. You might wait awhile, but you'll get an answer.
It's also wise to note that there's such a thing as the portal. Just because we're talking in wc, doesn't mean we're even in game. V and I both frequently monitor world chat via portal while we're away from the game. You should generally assume that if you see us talking in world chat, we're either working on a project or using the portal.
Another one we hear all the time is "just hire more staff". As if that's so easy. Yes, there are a ton of people on the shard who would volunteer to be staff, but almost none who would be a good fit, or the right kind of personality. There is so much more involved in staffing, so much more going on behind the scenes that none of you have any idea about. Ask Requiem, I'm sure he was quite shocked once he became staff. It isn't as easy as just picking someone. There has to be the right personality, the person has to get along with the rest of us, they have to be an honorable and trustworthy person (otherwise they're just going to cheat and cause huge drama), they have to be knowledgeable about the game and Excelsior itself, they have to be very quick to learn, independent thinkers, team-oriented, and they can't be anybody well-known on the shard (or else, huge drama). There are at least a dozen other factors that are really needed to find a good staffer. Volunteers for staffing are a dime a dozen. Excellent staffers who'll be willing and able to churn out creative, extensive events and content while being involved in the shard community and not being so much as slightly tempted to cheat are nearly impossible to find. On top of that, hiring a new person means a big time sink for Colibri as well as myself; he has to spend immense amounts of time monitoring and training the new person, and then the ball is in my court to help the newbie staffer get their feet on the ground in the day to day. Making a hiring mistake is a massive issue that takes months to truly 'fix', and causes so many ripple effects over the shard; Colibri has to be very careful in hiring anyone and that's why we have only the numbers we have and why 'just hire more staff' is a silly thing to say.
Last but not least, remember that we are human too. We aren't just robots who are here to serve you. We have lives away from Excelsior, with all the trials and tribulations, joys and tragedies as anyone else. My father died last year, and some monstrous individual had the nerve to chew me out for not being around to answer their page, even after they'd been informed I was out of state for my father's funeral. We are not paid for staffing. We are volunteers. That means that this is a hobby for us. There have been staff before whose motivations for staffing were selfish, so they'd cheat to benefit their player, but those staff don't last here. Staffing, when done by people like myself and V (and as far as I can tell, Requiem too) - who would rather cut off a limb than cheat or allow others to do so - is a labor of absolute, pure love. We have absolutely no reason to stay staffing except that we love the shard, we enjoy the hobby, and we simply want to.
So, be patient. If you see us talking in wc and not answering you, there's a reason. It's very easy for us to type in wc while we work on an event or code a quest, or use the portal while we're away from the desk all together. if we're in the middle of developing a project, it's not so easy to stop what we're doing and answer a page. If it is an easy page to answer without dropping what I'm doing, I answer them. Otherwise they'll have to wait. The work I do benefits the entire shard, and that is more important than someone having to wait awhile for a service. Y'all have it really, really, really good here on Excelsior, it'd be excellent if everyone recognized that and didn't get uppity and offended that they have to wait. I've had to wait longer at the emergency room with a broken limb than most of you have ever waited to hear back from me for a page I could assist you with.
Re: Getting Old
+Nyx, thank you for your response, now let me explain why my post was extremely brief.
As a player that has been playing UO since 1998, I can understand everything you have just said, but you raise points that I, as player, need to respond to. Some I will respond to others I will leave alone because it has nothing to do with why I posted.
If the staff isn't required to answer pages when you are on, can you at least look in on the situation and see if it is worth taking care of. If not, then no answer is required. It isn't my first rodeo. I know how the GM world works and how much is needed to do to make and continue the world working for everyone to enjoy. I may be a new players on this server( under the 120 mark) but I'm not a new player to the game.
At 45, I think I've seen my share of game play. Everything you do as GM's reflects in the game, I know that, the other players know that and see it on a daily basis. And we are all grateful that you guys are here to fix the small issues that arise on a daily basis. On that note, I have never once said you or any of the GM's weren't doing their jobs, I have never once said that the GM's are slacking at doing there assigned duties and I haven NEVER given any of the GM's a reason to as you put it " that if you've been awful to a particular staffer previously, well they're not going to exactly be motivated to help you, so they probably won't". I've never crossed a line with a GM, never gotten a message regarding an issue with a GM so having this brought up not once but twice in this post is redundant.
As for what the message contains and who it is for I get that not all the GM's can take care of certain issues and it has to be pasted to a higher calling, but to have a message set in que for up to 12-15 hours with now response what so ever. This is my point I am trying to make. I was unaware that I could escalate it myself and in the future if the need arises it will do that, but in my eyes having an issue such as moving a house, or "he stole my bow", uninformed, confusing, rude, etc are all messages that can sit and wait. Issues on a larger scale such as bonded animals becoming unbonded when removed from a house while construction, being able to walk 3-4 tiles under water along the coast, loosing items that were insured after getting booted due to lag. these are issues I would expect someone to take notice to and pass a message along letting that individual know that it is being looked at and not leaving it in the que. I have never assumed nor will I think that my case is more important than another. That would be arrogance on my part and belittling a staffer is just plain stupid.
Everyone knows, well those that have been playing for a while, staffer are just like every other player, they play for the love of the game, as a something they enjoy doing on their off time, you don't get paid, you do it because you like what you have help create and enjoy the game. So please don't assume that I think your job is easy. You have personal lives to tend to, kids, families, jobs, RL BS just like the rest of us. I know this, but I don't want you confusing the issue thinking that I as a player don't have the same issues in my RL as you do. Most of us that play have families, kids, jobs, businesses to attend to but come here to escape the everyday trials and enjoy what we have enjoyed playing for many many years.
All I'm asking is if a issue has been posted, can there be some kind of message sent to let the sender know that it is being looked into. It could be 10 minutes, it could be an hour later, it could come as a PM. Something instead nothing. I understand that time zones play a big part (which sucks) but just a message would atleast put my mind at ease instead of nothing.
Thank you for your attention.
Belken
As a player that has been playing UO since 1998, I can understand everything you have just said, but you raise points that I, as player, need to respond to. Some I will respond to others I will leave alone because it has nothing to do with why I posted.
If the staff isn't required to answer pages when you are on, can you at least look in on the situation and see if it is worth taking care of. If not, then no answer is required. It isn't my first rodeo. I know how the GM world works and how much is needed to do to make and continue the world working for everyone to enjoy. I may be a new players on this server( under the 120 mark) but I'm not a new player to the game.
At 45, I think I've seen my share of game play. Everything you do as GM's reflects in the game, I know that, the other players know that and see it on a daily basis. And we are all grateful that you guys are here to fix the small issues that arise on a daily basis. On that note, I have never once said you or any of the GM's weren't doing their jobs, I have never once said that the GM's are slacking at doing there assigned duties and I haven NEVER given any of the GM's a reason to as you put it " that if you've been awful to a particular staffer previously, well they're not going to exactly be motivated to help you, so they probably won't". I've never crossed a line with a GM, never gotten a message regarding an issue with a GM so having this brought up not once but twice in this post is redundant.
As for what the message contains and who it is for I get that not all the GM's can take care of certain issues and it has to be pasted to a higher calling, but to have a message set in que for up to 12-15 hours with now response what so ever. This is my point I am trying to make. I was unaware that I could escalate it myself and in the future if the need arises it will do that, but in my eyes having an issue such as moving a house, or "he stole my bow", uninformed, confusing, rude, etc are all messages that can sit and wait. Issues on a larger scale such as bonded animals becoming unbonded when removed from a house while construction, being able to walk 3-4 tiles under water along the coast, loosing items that were insured after getting booted due to lag. these are issues I would expect someone to take notice to and pass a message along letting that individual know that it is being looked at and not leaving it in the que. I have never assumed nor will I think that my case is more important than another. That would be arrogance on my part and belittling a staffer is just plain stupid.
Everyone knows, well those that have been playing for a while, staffer are just like every other player, they play for the love of the game, as a something they enjoy doing on their off time, you don't get paid, you do it because you like what you have help create and enjoy the game. So please don't assume that I think your job is easy. You have personal lives to tend to, kids, families, jobs, RL BS just like the rest of us. I know this, but I don't want you confusing the issue thinking that I as a player don't have the same issues in my RL as you do. Most of us that play have families, kids, jobs, businesses to attend to but come here to escape the everyday trials and enjoy what we have enjoyed playing for many many years.
All I'm asking is if a issue has been posted, can there be some kind of message sent to let the sender know that it is being looked into. It could be 10 minutes, it could be an hour later, it could come as a PM. Something instead nothing. I understand that time zones play a big part (which sucks) but just a message would atleast put my mind at ease instead of nothing.
Thank you for your attention.
Belken
Re: Getting Old
In my original post, I was addressing the entire shard's worth of paging issues, not just yours. This will be read by many shardlings, so I covered all the bases I could think of.
I've been on all day today, there isn't any page in the queue from you. There wasn't one 12 hours ago when I went to sleep, and there hasn't been one in the hours I've been awake today. There's no page from you in the escalated queue except one from a week ago that has already been addressed. I was also on all day yesterday, and answered pages except during the event. So, you haven't been sitting in the queue for 15 hours in the last day or so, which makes me confused why the thread was created at all.Belken wrote:but to have a message set in que for up to 12-15 hours with now response what so ever.
As I've just explained, I do that already.Belken wrote:If the staff isn't required to answer pages when you are on, can you at least look in on the situation and see if it is worth taking care of.
I always reply to pages that I handle to let the person know that it's been seen. If nobody has answered you, it's because nobody has handled your page. You send pages quite frequently and nearly every page I've seen you send is addressed directly to Colibri or requesting Colibri, so the rest of us don't generally get involved - we aren't supposed to. Addressing something directly to Colibri is essentially the same as saying that you don't want to hear from anyone else, so you won't. Since there's no trace of the page from you that elicited this thread, I have no way to know what it is you needed, and am just going off what I have seen of your pages in particular since you joined the shard. If you want a response from the first available staffer, don't address them to Colibri. If it needs to go to him, it will get to him.Belken wrote:All I'm asking is if a issue has been posted, can there be some kind of message sent to let the sender know that it is being looked into. It could be 10 minutes, it could be an hour later, it could come as a PM. Something instead nothing.
Re: Getting Old
I left a message at 130am central standard time and was in game till 4 this morning....
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JollyTamer
- Apprentice Scribe
- Posts: 17
- Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2011 1:24 pm
Re: Getting Old
I think bottom line is, its a free to play shard. The staff spends time online because they want to! Only payment being from donations (if any im not sure who gets paid and who doesnt lol) be patient with your paging status and maybe try asking specifics about your issue here? i have never in over 2 years gone without an issue being at least answered... just have patience my friend.
