PSA: Vendors with non-default prices are illegal to use.

[themadxcow]

FYI. Found that out the hard way apparently. Didn't even think it was not intentional. Oh well.

[themadxcow]

Also, I guess this is goodbye too. Take care all.
--George

[Melkor]

What do you mean by vendors with non-default prices?

[Dramoor]

16.7. 10:12 +Nyx: He found a vendor that was buying wax for 410gp per instead of the proper 292gp per price.
16.7. 10:12 Montolio: ah
16.7. 10:12 +Nyx: he used it but did not report it to the staff.


Probably was fit into this category.

How can you know if you're exploiting? Here are some of the signs:
- If something is bringing a very above average gain.
- If it's considered that it should be kept away from staff's knowledge.
- If something requres a very specific set of actions you need to take, in order to perform something that you normally couldn't.
- If you are able to perform an action that seems illogical or against the written rules (for example, being able to enter the newbie dungeon after you have already reached the maximum account age).

[Cygnus]

FYI. Found that out the hard way apparently. Didn't even think it was not intentional. Oh well.

Also, I guess this is goodbye too. Take care all.--George

You are quitting because you were found out to be exploiting something, intentionally or not? Pretty thin skin it appears to me, unless I am misreading something here. It is almost like "If I can't cheat and get away with it, I don't want to play."

If you just made a mistake, suck it up and get on with it. This shard has too much to offer to throw it all away for a little infraction.

[Notthemadxcow]

The problem that I had was that there are several vendors around that sell at different prices, are commonly used by many players, and have been around for as long as I have been here. Since the vendor is in a public, conspicuous, and highly trafficked location I assumes that this was a benefit of shopping around for the best prices, not an exploit. If this was not an intentional, I would have understood and stopped using said vendors.
The issue was not the infraction, but the less than pofessional way in which it was handled. I was accused of attempting to withhold information from the staff, even though I immediately presented a list of other vendors with alternate prices, which added to the punishment. I am leaving the shard simply because I do not play in a server where staff members are constantly impolite to their players.

Anyhow, its done and over with. UO:EX is a great shard and I enjoyed my time here. It is a free shard and the staff is free to do as they wish, but the constant negativity has surpassed the fun of the game (for me).

Edit: Yes, I know its a stupid thing to quit over. Originally i was asked to do 500 tasks (which is 41 hours of walking back and forth), but it seems to be accompanied by a ban for an unknown amount of time. I would need to start over on a new account to stay, which isn't allowed anyhow. Starting from scratch due to a mistake makes it even more difficult to 'suck it up', given that it was a first offense. Sorry all.
Best wishes.

[Melkor]

I have to agree with Cygnus on this one.

And themadxcow, it's not uncommon to be a little miffed about being sent to jail. Some people go bananas on the forums about it which is not good, but your post was pretty tame in my opinion. I'd suggest, take some time to cool off and decide what you want to do about the game another day. Personally, I'd love to see you stick around.

Peace out, and say hi to the Jail Guards for me *wink*

Edit: you got a reply in just before me, but I'll leave my message anyways.

[+Nyx]

- You were informed by the person you were speaking to that if the staff found out it would be 'nerfed' again. You then replied that this was why you kept it a secret, because this vendor you knew of was likely the only one that still bought wax this way. That person also told you that the price you were able to sell for was nearly double what the staff made it the last time they changed bees. That is a "very above average gain" as mentioned in the codex guidelines for exploiting.
- You did not "provide a list" of vendors that buy things for different prices. You said that they exist. Your punishment was not changed in any way by this statement or anything you have said or done since then.
- You were given the option of a reduced sentence if you would tell the staff who informed you of this exploit, you chose not to, so your tasks are the same as they were the moment you were brought to jail.
- You were given jail tasks. Your account was not banned, so you would need to finish the tasks in order to continue playing. That you state you'd have to make a new account in order to play just shows that you're attempting to make this whole scenario into more than it is.

And for the record, in that same conversation with a fellow player, you agreed to log onto someone else's account to take care of their bees while they were on vacation, which is a bannable offense for both accounts. Your respect for our rules is obviously nil.

I understand that being caught in something like this must be embarrassing and stressful, but taking it public or arguing until you're blue in the face isn't going to change that you did something inappropriate and are being held accountable for it. If it makes you feel any better, I don't just go willy nilly with these kinds of punishments, I discuss them with at least one of the admins beforehand. It would be great for me if there were more staff, and therefore it wasn't almost always me handling rule violations and punishments; I sure as heck don't enjoy doing it but that's the way it is for now. It isn't any fun being the lightning rod simply by virtue of being the only staffer usually here monitoring the shard, but I enjoy everything else about staffing enough to tolerate it until it improves. That means listening to 5 bazillion excuses and rationalizations every time somebody's caught doing something naughty and having to respond to posts like this instead of work on Elysium.

I hope that you decide to complete your tasks and remain with Excelsior, and I also hope that it gives you a new respect for our rules. It would make me quite happy to see you stay, and never have to be involved with a punishment with you again. If every single player on this shard obeyed the rules as well as most of our veterans do, I would be blissfully happy lol.

[Notthemadxcow]

The conversation about the bees being nerfed only indicated that the price would be reduced soon, not that it was somehow illegal. It was a very common vendor with no indication that it was not intended to be sold to. I am sorry, but 48 hours of click rocks while not afk is outrageous, especially since there was clearly no intent, nor prior incidence, of cheating or abuse. The total lifetime value received was 90k, which I did not even keep.

I simply would like to play the game conventionally without having to worry about whether or not something that is commonly done in game was intentional or not. I would have completely understood after receiving a warning and a sentence based on the uoex penalty chart for first offense minor exploits (max 100 tasks). And when I was blocked after fully cooperating and even informing the staff of other such vendors, where am I to turn to? In the end, it is a free shard, and I don't know many moderatly new players that would stick around and do meaningless tasks, by hand and not afk, for 48 in game hours.

That is just what I was left with after our very short conversation. I needed to voice my opinion in some format, and this was my only option. I do respect your decision and authority, and I hope you will respect and understand mine. I wish things could have turned out differently, but it was it is. I do hold it against anyone, and I hope you and the shard continue to do well.

Edit: my attempts to login have had mixed results all morning, with errors I that led me to believe it was banned. Either way, 48 hours in jail is one thing, but asking someone to perform degrading tasks and be logged in for that entire time is simply not realistic.

[+Nyx]

Type E: Exploiting

Exploiting is immediatelly treated as a heavy violation. All in-game entities such as pets and items that were used for the exploit, or that were the result of the exploit, may (will probably) be permanently impounded. Your account or any accounts related to this may be temporarily or permanently banned.

You accepted the rules of this shard when you joined. Exploiting gold gain is never considered a minor exploit.

[+Veritas]

+Veritas_7-16_01.41.png (32.64 KiB) Viewed 3542 times

locked.

+V