Destash Raffle

[Geyanna]

OK I am sorry if this was covered up there some where but I try to avoid the disagreements and just scroll right past them... Is there a list some where that say how many of each item is needed to get a half a ticket? I know it does the count down on the side of the screen but a list of say " 34 of a wand of lighting " kinda thing might be intresting to know.


Hope this wasn't covered somewhere eles if it is sorry for double posting just did not wanna read a drama junk.

[denismcgagnon]

Can you PLEASE add a counter for the ammount of tickets you've put in to show that would be an INCREADIBLE help... And I've put tickets in and can't remember how much I,m at that's a feature I'd realy like to see.

[+Veritas]

MARX wrote:I just read the Wiki.
"Drama Llama"
"Drama Queen"
Please tell us how you really feel.
ROFL.
I guess the best defense is a good offense in this case.

When you deal with people who make it an art to argue their way around rules and directions for as long as we have, you will understand. So, really in this case a painstakingly detailed and redundant explanation of rules and cause-effect warnings with some humorous, and light name calling (not specifically directed at any person or persons) to lighten up the warnings is necessary. It is a little depressing that those quotes were what you got out of that post, not the underlying reason for why it was posted the way it was.

MARX wrote:
Speak when spoken to.. Got it

Funny. I don't recall ever seeing that in the codex or wiki. But what was the point of that earlier snark? That out of the entirety of the post you had a beef with <1% of the wording? Okay, noted. You could've messaged us directly if you didn't like the wording. So, really, you just wanted to look cool to your peers. Did it work?

Fiernocht wrote:
+Nyx, shame on you for calling out a Drama llama! its not nice at all to act like that. you could hurt someone's feelings.

While it is always nice to see staff support, even in the form of playful sarcasm, I have to address this statement. Nyx in no way pointed out that anyone participating in this thread is, or ever was a llama of the drama persuasion. She addressed someone's desire to publicly vent their coolness by poking at some choice words rather than address the overall message or underlying need for such a message, while doing so in a "look at me, I am snarking in a publicly oozing-in-coolness way for all to see". In these situations where there is staff and player head-butting, it's best to not get involved. Respectful nod to you, regardless.

Wil Wrote:
C'mon folks, let's all pile on Marx. How dare he chuckle at the irony inherent in someone, anyone, ranting about the -possibility- that others might behave like "drama queens."

He didn't just chuckle, he chuckled on a public thread and snarked with the intent to get some recognition of...whatever. He got it. If people are piling on him, it's not because he was just walking along reading the wiki, minding his own business, and then all of a sudden the admin's black panel-van screeched to a hault and Nyx and Veritas jumped out and beat him unconscious with bats and quickly fled the scene. He was seeking attention, and got it.

The point that seems to have soared above some peoples heads, is that over the course of several years dealing with some of the general public, staff have spent hundreds of hours explaining things. We have explained decisions, rules, actions, mechanics, etc to both players and Colibri. While Nyx and I are admins, we are both middle management. We get it from both sides of the equation. We make a judgement call and not only do we hear it from some of the players, but we have to explain it to Colibri. Checks and balances, you know...that process that ensures there aren't corrupt staff (Or maybe all staff is corrupt, and we just don't know it *pinky finger to the lips*. To be clear, the side of the equation involving Colibri is necessary for a properly functioning staff group. I have no complaints there, and I see it as a necessity. However, while the majority of the communication between players and staff is positive, there are the situations where some players are just out to get some joy from arguing with staff. So, naturally, when problems arise due to variable X on a somewhat frequent basis, actions are taken to reduce the possibility of variable X being an issue in the future. That is why you have seen a shift from "Treat people with respect", to pages and pages of what to do and what not to do, and specific instructions and what to expect from not following those instructions. You will occasionally see some frustration in those instructions in the form of indirectly labeling people who don't follow the rules, or other phrasing that indications frustration. It is because we are shaking our heads in disbelief while we write these out, thinking "I can't believe we have to even say this, but we better anyway..." Seriously, I remember an old argument with a player that was luring mobs onto another player's corpse while they were trying to loot it, and telling them that non-consensual PvP by any means is not allowed on this server. It was obvious that he was doing it, because he took enough steps each movement to keep it aggro-ed on him but not get hit. His argument was that the mob was doing the killing, not him, and that "it doesn't specifically state that I can't lure mobs to players to get them killed. So I shouldn't get banned for this." So...in most cases...when it is a choice between trusting that 100% of the participants are going to employ common sense and a "do unto others" mindset, versus providing a lengthy rules and expectations post that is irritating for everyone to read because it rivals some legal documents, but saves us from having to waste time explaining the technicalities and moralities of what we do and why we do it...guess which one we will pick every time? What's that? You hate it? Guess what, we hate it more. But it has become a necessity.

So if you consider that wiki page as staff drama, maybe consider why we need to make such a page. Maybe also consider why you are upset with the use of 'Drama Llama" and "Drama Queen".

+V

[+Nyx]

Can you PLEASE add a counter for the ammount of tickets you've put in to show that would be an INCREADIBLE help... And I've put tickets in and can't remember how much I,m at that's a feature I'd realy like to see.

Essentially, no. There isn't any functionality for that in the system at this time. Eventually I would like to see that added, but we are trying not to add anything new to +C's plate in hopes that the facets' scripting needs will get completed this year. In the mean time, perhaps keep a book in your pack and notate each time you deposit a ticket. Or even a notepad document on your desktop where it's easy to find. I'm sure some of the folks making fancy scripts could write something to scan the journal and output the ticket number to a document. Those are your best options for now


Geyanna - not at this time, no. I believe a couple of your fellow players were keeping a running list but I have not posted the required numbers for each item

[denismcgagnon]

Well thanks for the answer, even if it does not sits entirely well with me, thanks for the event and just so I can fit some more possitive I see a bitther sweet turn in only opening some rooms realy well done and boooo at the same time

[+Nyx]

You will occasionally see some frustration in those instructions in the form of indirectly labeling people who don't follow the rules, or other phrasing that indications frustration. It is because we are shaking our heads in disbelief while we write these out, thinking "I can't believe we have to even say this, but we better anyway..."
...
So...in most cases...when it is a choice between trusting that 100% of the participants are going to employ common sense and a "do unto others" mindset, versus providing a lengthy rules and expectations post that is irritating for everyone to read because it rivals some legal documents, but saves us from having to waste time explaining the technicalities and moralities of what we do and why we do it...guess which one we will pick every time? What's that? You hate it? Guess what, we hate it more. But it has become a necessity.

Absolutely 100% true. I can't even tell you guys how many times V and I have sat here working on an event together and one of us reads the draft of the post/wiki/whatever, and the other comments on how depressing it is that we have to put forth so much effort into writing out every possible cause/effect when it should be a simple "be polite and don't cheat". It's depressing. By and large, staffing this shard is pretty frequently depressing. It does not give one a very positive glimpse into what the world is like.

+V has been on staff here at UOEX for almost exactly 6 years now. I have been on staff for nearly 4. We have both watched other staff come and go, some of their own volition and some outright removed for their conduct. Every single thing we do on the shard/forums/etc is monitored and checked by +C. It's not any more fun for him, but it's necessary and understandable. Just like needing to remark on improper behavior on the wiki/posts about events is necessary and understandable. Yes, I tend to try to word things like that in a more silly/humorous light (hence the 'drama llama'/'drama queen' wording). If I was being mean, I would word it much, much more colorfully (I do have a rather eclectic vocabulary ranging from sailor levels on up to high-brow novelists) and in great detail. Anyway, again - if you're out to find negativity, you will find it. If you approach situations looking for drama or things to get pissed off about - you will find them. The world around you is what YOU make of it, folks. Don't want to end up jailed and/or banned from our events? Don't walk into a situation and start being nasty to us. It's that simple.

[+Nyx]

Well thanks for the answer, even if it does not sits entirely well with me, thanks for the event and just so I can fit some more possitive I see a bitther sweet turn in only opening some rooms realy well done and boooo at the same time

Yeah, it was a bit of a pain to close the rooms off for me as well. Some folks seemed to feel that rotating items would 'help' somehow, so I figured we could give it a shot and see how it goes. I personally don't feel like it's going to change anything - anyone who was willing to go farm ID wands or fire horns in order to stock up for the destash raffle is still going to do so whether they're on the current raffle or not, they'll just be stuck holding onto them until the items go into rotation in a subsequent raffle. But we'll see how it goes, we may or may not continue with the rotating items system in future raffles

[denismcgagnon]

Well it makes for changes for the moment I don't think that most were expecting that change to be done, me the least I was farming only 1 kind of item, so it gives some value to the items in place right now but there will be preparation for the next ones I guess.

So to all good day and try to enjoy the stuff coming. I simply can't wait for the new lands to be out tho for various reasons now.

[+Nyx]

I simply can't wait for the new lands to be out tho for various reasons now.

me either! >.<

[Gaara]

I simply can't wait for the new lands to be out tho for various reasons now.

me either! >.<

Neither, me neither.

(don't mind me, i'm just being silly and off topic )

[+Nyx]

that's what I get for only proof-reading the long posts lol

[Fiernocht]

Fiernocht wrote:
+Nyx, shame on you for calling out a Drama llama! its not nice at all to act like that. you could hurt someone's feelings.

While it is always nice to see staff support, even in the form of playful sarcasm, I have to address this statement. Nyx in no way pointed out that anyone participating in this thread is, or ever was a llama of the drama persuasion. She addressed someone's desire to publicly vent their coolness by poking at some choice words rather than address the overall message or underlying need for such a message, while doing so in a "look at me, I am snarking in a publicly oozing-in-coolness way for all to see". In these situations where there is staff and player head-butting, it's best to not get involved. Respectful nod to you, regardless.
+V

Oh I know she didnt point out anything of that nature, I'm the one who did so based on his comment. I do adore +Nyx and would never mean to "get involved" between her and someone else, as you said it was just playful sarcasm and I honestly hope +Nyx got at least a half smile out of it. I do try to keep my jesting at a minimum though when it comes to anything GM/admin Related, except when I see a chance to rag you when you arent "busy" smiting others. also thank you for the respect. I mean no dissent or disrespect to any of the staff. love you guys, even if we dont always see eye to eye. Also, if my jesting did bring up feelings of annoyance instead of what they were meant for, I am sorry.

[Wil]

That is why you have seen a shift from "Treat people with respect", to pages and pages of what to do and what not to do, and specific instructions and what to expect from not following those instructions. You will occasionally see some frustration in those instructions in the form of indirectly labeling people who don't follow the rules, or other phrasing that indications frustration.

Howdy,

You may not believe it but I've been there more than once and know exactly where you're coming from. Plus, even Admins have the right to get cranky now and then. Nevertheless, the "shift" is maladaptive. When the rules need a lot of explaining, you've selected bad rules. You (and I and the other players here) would be better off if you identified and either revised or eliminated the rules that tend to need so much explaining and instigate so much grief.

Seriously, I remember an old argument with a player that was luring mobs onto another player's corpse while they were trying to loot it, and telling them that non-consensual PvP by any means is not allowed on this server.

Heh. That's a good one. So hold a trial. Let the "jury" decide whether that broke the rules. Bonus points for any witness who can stay in character. You could even have trophies for the jurors: "I judged [name] guilty, 2/11/2015." Why be annoyed by something when you can find the humor in the situation and use it as an excuse to hold an ad-hoc event?

So if you consider that wiki page as staff drama, maybe consider why we need to make such a page. Maybe also consider why you are upset with the use of 'Drama Llama" and "Drama Queen".

I always do consider. If I tried to hold you guys to account for hypocrisy, I'd have to hold myself to the same standard. I don't think that would be entirely wise, do you?

Seriously though, the forums are here for -participation-. When a player gets dumped on for for finding humor in a situation, that's not OK. Even when the subtext of the joke offers a mild reproof for an admin's particular quirks.

He didn't just chuckle, he chuckled on a public thread and snarked with the intent to get some recognition of...whatever.

Sorry, the intent of what? Are you a telepath now, reaching through the intertubes and straight in to Marx's brain to divine a foul intent behind his snarky post? Dude made a funny. Try laughing.

If you are a telepath, stay out of my brain. There's some scary stuff in there. Scar you for life.

Regards,
Wil

[Fiernocht]

All joking aside, WIl I dont think your comments are very constructive. I mean if you dont like the way the rules are presented, Dont play here. its not your place to decide. I am also of the opining that all rules should be explained thoroughly as to leave No points of confusion about them.

[fixxer1963]

OK I am sorry if this was covered up there some where but I try to avoid the disagreements and just scroll right past them... Is there a list some where that say how many of each item is needed to get a half a ticket? I know it does the count down on the side of the screen but a list of say " 34 of a wand of lighting " kinda thing might be intresting to know.


Hope this wasn't covered somewhere eles if it is sorry for double posting just did not wanna read a drama junk.

Would it be permissible to start a thread where people could post how many of each item it takes to get a ticket? Or would that defeat some purpose?