Fair Trade's Sunday Giveaways

[lilbear68]

no names were mentioned and im curious about what your referring to as dis honest? the truth is the truth no matter how uncomfortable Itmay make some feel. if feeling are hurt then my suggestion would be to 'grow some skin'

[+Nyx]

no names were mentioned and im curious about what your referring to as dis honest? the truth is the truth no matter how uncomfortable Itmay make some feel. if feeling are hurt then my suggestion would be to 'grow some skin'

I did not say dishonest, I said that you were being rude and then trying to hide behind "but I'm just telling the truth".It is not acceptable. Your attitude is inappropriate, particularly:

stepping on the toes of greedy ppl that want to wring every last gold piece out of an item. IMHO their arguments are specious and if they are unhappy with your impact on their sales then maybe they should try another field to attempt to enrich themselves and at some other groups expense.

This was rude. And aggressive. It doesn't matter if you didn't "name any names". You took what was a polite, constructive thread in which various people of various mindsets were expressing their differing opinions in a respectful manner and you essentially made a mud-slinging post that was disrespectful to the players posting before you.

Further, whether people are greedy or not is your opinion. It is not necessarily a fact.

Now, you can continue to post nastily and end up in jail, or you can take a step back and realize that you were being impolite and that in the future you can avoid that particular issue by simply expressing your differing opinion in a polite way. Like every other person in this thread managed to do.

[lilbear68]

well my mistake I thought that within certain guidelines we are allowed to express our opinions and im fairly certain I did not step out of the rules of the codex. my opinion is unchanged and so far im allowed to express it. either that or state where I am outside the codex

[+Nyx]

well my mistake I thought that within certain guidelines we are allowed to express our opinions and im fairly certain I did not step out of the rules of the codex. my opinion is unchanged and so far im allowed to express it. either that or state where I am outside the codex

Well, good thing for all of us it is not your job to interpret the codex. It is mine. This would fall under 6c. No drama.

You may express your opinion - as I stated - so long as you do so politely and with respect for others. Which you did not do in this instance, but will hopefully do so in the future.

[lilbear68]

after having just read 6 c my interpretation of drama must be a bit off. but I am now coming to understand, not agree mind you, but I do have a clearer vision of this forum

[+Nyx]

And now that -that- nonsense is over with, back to the actual topic.

As much as it may look like I'm trying to argue with you all I want you to know it's the contrary I'm taking what you all say very seriously. Just so you know many of you posting here have been players I've respected since I first started and have in one way or another inspired me through your posts and dedication to this shard so thank you for that. I am tending to agree with the large items although I still hold that it is so rare that I don't think its that big of a problem I am going to go a few weeks without them and throw one in maybe monthly. I think +Nix and some of you others are putting forth great ideas for alternatives to just giving away and if you join us one night which I invite you all to you will see it is more then just give and go people stick around meet the older players ask questions and get very good advice. I receive PMs all the time through the week not asking for more free stuff but rather asking if I have something on my vendor or can point them to a vendor who has what they need. As for taking away from business of others... I don't mean to sound rude please don't take anything I say that way I know we all have the same intentions at heart but we find a lot of this from our vendors profits and we tell the new players to shop with our vendors if we were not turning the profit then we would not be able to do this on a weekly basis the truth is we tailored our shop towards newer players needs from the beginning and we chose to promote through a giveaway system supported by our vendors. Have I gone overboard with some of my gifts... Absolutely and I'm going to calm down with that as mentioned above but the shard isn't losing money from donations because the gifts weren't free they were paid for by players who have earned it. +Nix I want you to know I do keep very meticulous notes on who attends each week and who gets a grand prize and I can honestly tell you two people have received more than one and no one has attended more than 4 events. We are on the honor system and you can feel the people that attend are truly brand new for the most part. I am planning some trips just like you all suggested and I always welcome the ideas from people like you. It's one of the reasons I'm still here. I was assisted when I started and was given suits of armor and crafting items until I got on my feet but what kept me around is the bond I shared with the older players that helped me. That is the point and that is why I will continue to do these weekly because there is a small window when young players need this help and I want them to know that there is somewhere they can get help and one on one advice that is there every week. I hope you haven't taken anything I've said as rude and I will always listen to advice from anyone offering I just ask that you all read what I am saying as well and try to see my side and if you have time PM me and join me tomorrow I will be happy to show you the benefit. It's really fun. Thanks everyone for your input.

I'm not one of the folks who is of the mindset that a weekly giveaway hurts the shard economy in any particular way. Giving too much away, all the time, by an entire guild/ton of people - sure. Heck, I don't like the newbie donation bins. I think -those- hurt the shard economy in a more noticeable way than a few giveaways a month. Having prices on vendors deliberately way too high or way too low, by a large portion of the shard, that would hurt the economy over time too. But the giveaways you're doing, not really no. Not in my opinion anyway. Sure, they're items that players might have bought from a vendor but as was pointed out - someone paid for that item in some way at some point, and the impact on the actual economy is very minimal. My main concern was as I mentioned before - that players frequently get bored and quit when they've not had to work very much for what they have in the game. It gets boring very quickly, and it doesn't exactly breed the kind of fun-loving player we would like to see, a lot of the time those players then become entitled brats - you'd think they were trust-fund paris hilton types.

But what I wanted to mention this time around was that I appreciate that you're taking everyone's input with aplomb and in good faith, and also to applaud that you've already been keeping notes on attendance and whatnot. I am someone who firmly believes in documentation! I also think that the spirit of what you guys are doing is absolutely 100% fantastic. It says a lot about the kind of community that most of us who play & work here are trying to build and maintain. I think it's a rare thing in an online community and the fact that UOEX has it, with only a few snotheaded griefers, is what makes it a special place to play.

[Yoda]

I think +N and I are on a particularly similar wavelength on this topic completely.

I don't generally participate in a huge way in the player economy other than buying the odd little object for my collections

I have been here a while and I have done my share of giving stuff away at various points within my guild, mostly in the early days, I have seen the downside of it and thats what I was trying to articulate. Its the spoiled attitude that develops and the quick burnout. My longest running members are the ones that became self sufficient and (not to paraphrase game of thrones) "Payed The Iron Price" for things.

You guys have the best of intentions and I wish you well. It was more of a "be aware of the darkside" kind of perspective, never said stop.

[Johnny Blade]

I enjoy articulated argument when people can stay civil and listen to others and counter with respect. I am a little discouraged that such a fire storm began because of me and I apologize for that. I just want to reiterate my intention for this post was to bring to light something that I found to incredible and noteworthy. I really just wanted people who may not have been aware of it to know of yet another shining example of community that continues to fascinate me. It is hard enough to see generosity in real life when you are face to face with a person let a lone to see it time and again in a computer game. I wanted to commend everyone including the staff, even when you disagree with me and veterans who have nothing to do with this event but I know that they created the foundation that dictated long before I came along that this is the type of shard we all want and that is how it will stay.

I don't want the intentions of all that are involved in this on a weekly basis to be overshadowed by animosity. I believe the value in this far exceeds the effects the actual items being donated and given away may have. So I will take responsibility for the big rewards being too much and possibly encouraging a negative outcome. Even though I believe I have the right to buy an ED room level item and leave it on the street in front of Brit Bank if I so choose but that's not the point and I see the concerns. I will make sure we stick to the theme of survival and start up assistance for the most part and maybe throw a big prize in every few weeks to fulfill my selfish need to see that joy that comes with a new player receiving that caliber of gift. I'm sorry if you still think that's not enough and please feel free to PM me in game, civilly, to discuss further. But do me a favor, if you want to continue arguing about this please at least attend and see the atmosphere of the event because I don't believe it is fair to argue against something that you have not experienced. Get back to having fun playing this game we all love with all the friends that come along with it!

[fixxer1963]

I have a suggestion for the big items you want to give away. Make them deco items. That way, the player has something to look at every time they look around their house. It won't affect their gameplay, but it will still be something they probably can't afford on their own.

[+Nyx]

I enjoy articulated argument when people can stay civil and listen to others and counter with respect. I am a little discouraged that such a fire storm began because of me and I apologize for that.

I think that until a lurker got huffy with everyone, this thread was going marvelously. You have nothing to apologize for. You started a thread and opened a dialogue. Don't let the troll win, and certainly don't feel bad because one lurked into your thread. They tend to do that.

Definitely do not be discouraged in your efforts, this clearly gives you game-happiness, which is what we're all here to achieve. Speaking for myself, my input was meant entirely as that - input. I know coming from someone with a + in front of their name, sometimes folks take what we say as laying down the law but that's just not the case most of the time. We are here to be advisers as much as enforcers (if not more..it'd be nice, anyway ). Having seen this sorta thing happen and how it can go badly - and then turn the great player who was hosting them sour or jaded - I simply wanted to mention my thoughts so that you had the information available to you. I find it difficult to not help folks when I think I might be able to prevent anything "bad" from happening, and I'd hate to see you get burned by this later on when I could've given you a heads-up. If you opt to completely ignore it, that's totally fine and totally your choice. I will harbor no feelings on the matter, either way. I staff here because I want players like you to be happy here and have a great time.

I'm not usually super available on Sundays but since your original post I have planned to try and attend one of your events simply for the enjoyment. I don't need to see what it's all about, that implies you may be doing something wrong and obviously you aren't.

[Johnny Blade]

I appreciate that more than you know and only a fool doesn't listen to advice that comes from experience and is offered for nothing more but to help keep others well-informed. Goes right into my 5x3" "Field Notes" notebook because we can always improve and that's exactly what I intend to do.

[Fiernocht]

johnny I just wanna say Kudos to you for taking all of this in stride, keep on keepin on.

[Wil]

Howdy,

When I was a young player, I lost my llama. Some kind soul left a powered-up replacement in the donations bin. That llama, "Killer," made the game for me. I could explore early game dungeons I previously didn't dare. I could even participate in champ fights without having my rump handed to me. It was a total blast. I don't remember who gave away that Llama, but he's the reason still I play here more than a year later.

I maintain that tradition and I always find it a bit gratifying when I see young players wandering about with pets I've donated in turn. You've seen them: the green and pink ones.


Johnny, Culichi & co. are doing it right. I want to take this opportunity to say: thank you for your kindness. Your spirit of generosity exhibits the very best of Excelsior. Don't ever let anybody tell you different.

Regards,
Wil

[Karianne]

Here here, I agree with Wil and Fiernocht. keep on keepin on...=).

[moonsongtx]

I have to respectfully disagree with what most of the comments here say. I am a newer player that attended the giveaway last week, and I loved my package. There was one ED item in the bag, which I've put in my bank to possibly use one day... along with a model ship that I've proudly displayed in my home, a check for 5k, and a power scroll, that I can't use as I already had a higher one. Yes, many may say this is too much. But what this showed me is more of what has made this server one of the best ones I've seen (and I've played a few and even was staff on one). People here help each other. I've seen numerous times where someone has died in a dungeon, asked for someone to help, and received it in minutes. I have seen people help each other monetarily as well. Heck, I was given over 500k within the first few days of joining the server, and I've passed along a lot, by dropping 5k checks in the young donation room chests. Having gold doesn't make me want to play less. Having gold makes me want to rebuild my house. *LOL*

For those griping that no one buys your stuff because of the give-away... um I think the blame may be more on inability to find what they are looking for/not knowing what they are looking for. I "window shop" sometimes and impulse buy when I do. But when I'm set out for finding something, I go to the vendor search page. If it's not there, I give up on it unless I find it by accident. But as for what was in my bag... I never would have gone out looking for a ship model, the power scroll, or even the ED item (+25 to weight in my backpack I think). Most new people to the server would not really know what they are looking for either. But let's say that when i saw that ship model, I wanted a second one so that decorations would be mirrored on either side of a room, for instance... in a case like that, getting that ship model would make me actively search for a second one.

Please continue the Fair Trade Giveaways. I didn't go today, because I was given so much last week I wanted someone else to get a chance. But I think it is a wonderful thing you are doing for the new people to the server. And if it is turning anyone away, that is their problem, not yours. Kudos and many thanks.