Organics

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Sorgon
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Organics

Post by Sorgon »

Just wondering if it would be possible to up the organics on the shard? Maybe adding them to fel drops or something.
Seems that they are just way to rare and hard to obtain. Just my opinion but I wish that maybe have them like ointments and a change to get say 1-5 from Fel mobs just so we have more available on the shard. I would love to see more of us have bio pets to play with :P
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+Colibri
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Re: Organics

Post by +Colibri »

Some info in case you dont know - they spawn on:

1. evil bioengineers (ilshenar)
2. abomination (felucca)
3. genetic failures (felucca)
4. remains of a bio experiment (trammel)

the trammel one is very accessible, it's the newest spawn. there's almost no delay in respawning, but it's a pretty big area. If you pay good money for them you should get some newbies to raid those for an hour or two.
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Sorgon
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Re: Organics

Post by Sorgon »

Nice you are correct in thinking I diddnt know where they all spawned.
Can someone give me some info on the whereabouts of the spawns?
I know the Abomination. But the rest elude me.
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+Zandor
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Re: Organics

Post by +Zandor »

one should just go out and travel to the said areas and just start looking. a game is no fun if you are told where everything is
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Sorgon
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Re: Organics

Post by Sorgon »

Thanks for the help Zan....
I found 3 but looked everywhere for the Bio in Illish.... Still camt find them.....and BTW the respawns are WAY to slow on these in my opinion...If I farmed these which is not how I do things (I dont think it is fair to spawn camp) It would take weeks to collect enough to break a few vials.
The ones in Tramm the respawn is very fast but they need to drop a couple more to make it really with the time there.
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Re: Organics

Post by Devilman »

OK I feel we need to actually shed some light on this subject as their seems to be a lot of people making wild guesses here...


Sad fact is, the current rate at which you can obtain Organic Material is woefully low... lets see. We have a 24hour spawn that drops 2000-2500... a couple of hourly (or so) spawns that drop 150-250.. and slimes in brit that drop a wopping 1 each...

Given that there are at least half a dozen people on the shard (if not more) actively pursing bio-engineering, its extremely difficult to acumulate any numbers of organics that are meaningfull.. It takes 1000 organics per DNA vial and while sampling creatures with stats from half-cap to the full stat-cap for bios, it puts your sucess chance to sample down around 5-10% (Varies depending on Prowess, Evironmental and Mimic). Around 30% of those failures will also result in a broken vial (and as such, 1000 organics lost).

Thats before we get into the "mimic" area of Bio-DNA, where the numbers become really hard... if you want to get a random counter-attack, or a random special attack there is around a 15% chance to get one of either, while getting both a random counter and special has just a 2.25% chance.

But what if we desire a specific Counter or Special? (The list of which you can view here.... http://www.uoex.net/guides/animaltaming/bioengineering).. well you have just a 2.25% chance of sucessfully extracting a vial of Mimic DNA with both.... and just to cap it off, if you were hoping to build a pet with a specific choice of both the counter and the specialmove, we have just a 0.15% chance of ever achieving that.....

So to recap Mimic DNA...
Random Counter or Special = 15%
Desired Counter or Special = 5% counter, 3% Special
Random Counter & Special = 2.25%
Desired Counter & Special = 0.15%

Its pretty clear that with those kind of sucess rates for "Deseriable" Mimic DNA, the current availability for organics is painfully low:( While I apreciate that you cannot compare every shard to another, I would just like to add at this point that I previously played on another shard with bio-engineering which had a rather different droprate for organics...

Gone were the bio-engineers and the abomination, replaced in favour for a system whereby basically every monster had a 15-20% chance to drop 1-3 organics.. This not only helped to boost the availability of organics for DNA vials (allowing a more realistic chance to sample some "deseriable" mimic DNA, as even with the same sucess rates, the increased availability of organic material allowed for more attempts to be made), it also boosted the economy massively.

From the first week it was implimented, until the shard eventually shutdown some 9 months later, Organic Material maintained a steady and constant market value of around 60g each, with many thousand being sold / traded daily, often from younger players, to the older players..


Many people have said that larger "gold sinks" are needed in the game to help "soak up" some of the acumulated wealth of players, however these can often be counter-productive as they tend to impact the younger players also, making it very difficult for them to "get a foothold" when first starting out... Having the previously described drop-system it allowed for the younger players to be able to collect organics while hunting monsters that didnt require a maxxed cu'sidhe to kill and generate an income from doing so, by selling their collected organics to the older players, helping to move gold around the economy and strengthen the shard.

But please, dont look at this post as a list of "faults" or "complaints" about Excelsior, I like it a lot here and its possibly the finest shard I have played on, I'm trying to put forward a constructive look at the current system and suggest a possible alternative to the current availability of organics, to hopefully benefit both the bio-engineering players out there, and the younger players something they can start to hunt for / trade to get a headstart on the shard and buy their first house etc....
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Re: Organics

Post by Jillmuffit »

I agree with Devilman, today I went on a trip up to the yew crypts thinking i could gather some organics to sell to the veterans on the shard anly to find out that getting the material is far harder then i thought. Any vet that needs the material has to camp out at the spawns making them unavailable pretty much the entire time. I think a system that would allow younger players to help gather the resource for some good gold pay outs from vets would help spread the wealth and the love.. lol :dance
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Re: Organics

Post by Undertaker »

+Colibri wrote:Some info in case you dont know - they spawn on:

4. remains of a bio experiment (trammel)

the trammel one is very accessible, it's the newest spawn. there's almost no delay in respawning, but it's a pretty big area. If you pay good money for them you should get some newbies to raid those for an hour or two.
Sorgon wrote:The ones in Tramm the respawn is very fast but they need to drop a couple more to make it really with the time there.
Good input devilman... too much of one thing that gets flooded, it gets old, befor u know, we all have bio pets, an its old news... someone here had told colibri about the organics market an how it would help balance out the money in it with use of vets an newbs... where both can make money... an that was to add the 4. newbies need money, if they want it, they would work for it, an not go around begging for it... an if its the camping that the vets do, then maybe join em, theres the new rule about letting the next person go, but if your in live at the store, an you leave, what happens to your spot? you loose it to the person behind you, in this case, possibly the same vet farming some of these spawns, one day at a time...

an on a side note, bods give really good organics, i bought a set of organics an it was almost 10k, that person just did a bod... theres other ways to get it then just camping :D
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Re: Organics

Post by Devilman »

Valid points Undertaker, however 1 thing I did miss-out was that on the previous shard I played on (mentioned earlier), it had a similar size playerbase to Excelsior now, and still only 6 or 7 biopets actually existed on the shard... If you take a look at the sucess chances mentioned above for sampling "maxed DNA", those 10000 organics will maybe get you 1 vial of usable DNA.. and thats before you start trying to get a specific Counter / Special combination...

I wouldnt want to see the shard flooded either, but in my previous experience, while there will be a slight "craze" for them at first, if droprates were increased, there is, it has to be said, some "art" to making a biopet really good as a pet, as such some will lose interest when their "below max" pet fails to live up to expectations.... while others will continue to consume large quantities of organics daily in the "quest" to craft the perfect pet :)
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Re: Organics

Post by +Colibri »

Hmm how about organics on Exex? :D 1k to be sold once or twice a day.
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Re: Organics

Post by Devilman »

Well, that could help a little, although I think 1k every 24hours doesnt really help much at all, as at that rate, it's just another abomination, with even less organics and you can already see how "over-farmed" and "in demand" he is. Also it would take (minimum, statistically) 30 days to acumulate enough organics that way to stand a chance of getting Prowess, Environmental and Mental DNA close to the caps ;)


But that wont help new players earn gold, nor help "serious" bio-engineers achieve their goals :( Not to mention that Exex may well not be the best way to sell them if you are still going to continue to have such a limited supply (reason being, the vets with the dozens of million-gold checks will always win on Exex (since they can use it from work etc.. and will get a chance at least once a day to "bid" on it... However if they are being sold ingame, between players, everyone gets a fair chance as even if you have a billion gold, you can miss-out to another player because you couldnt be online (working / sleeping etc..).
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Re: Organics

Post by Llexa »

O....M.....G....

*sigh of annoyance*

Bio pets are not meant to be made in masses.. they are meant for a few people who work very hard to make them.. it can be done but it takes work and time, plain as that. I feel like screaming right now, but it wont help.

Some.... things... are NOT... meant... to be COMMON... OR EASY.... period. No if's and's and but's about it. PERIOD. End of story. No more... that's it... the ship has sailed... done... finished... Kaput!

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Re: Organics

Post by Devilman »

I agree some things are not meant to be easy... but then I hardly call 0.15% easy... or 1 Vial of DNA (maxxed) from 10000 Organics easy. Were not talking about "lets make everyone have biopets".. infact chances are, the ointment fix will do more to create a sudden "surge" of biopets on the shard, as people realise they can sucessfull sample lower DNA at a much greater sucess chance (using less organics) and then slowly "max out" the pet overtime with ointments...(the lower the stats, the easier chance to suceed)

What we are talking about is giving the players that are "serious" about making such a pet, the means to craft a truely great pet, while being able to afford to spend the time (and extra organics) to try and sample that "desired" Mimic DNA with the combination of Special-Move and Counter-Move on it (which as previously mentioned, has just a 0.15% chance to happen, statistically).


We came here looking to put forward a valid, well laid out arguement for the increase in droprate, not to scream and rant for no good reason... Why would you not want to see more young players able to farm a resource that they can sell to older players to earn gold, while at the same time, allowing for a more realistic chance of construction of a bio-engineered pet... It seems rather odd to me that you would want to have such a great scrip / addon installed and yet have hardly anyone able to actually enjoy it..

Perhaps with the planned ointment fix, an increase in Organic Material may not be needed, but instead a "re-work" of the mimic section of the Sampling code, so that its not such an impossible chance to get a counter / special combo you might desire...
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Re: Organics

Post by Llexa »

allowing for a more realistic chance of construction of a bio-engineered pet
Uhmm, lol ... aka, wanting it to be easier. It doesn't matter how you word it, this is what it says. They are realistic, but they are not common or easy. It's a process that can take months, which is how it should be. Like a hobby. Not instant, not simpler, none of that. The system works, I have made a bio pet. And if the system works, then it doesn't need to be altered. Now if no player could have ever made a bio pet, then obviously the system would be broke. But it's not the case. It's just far from instantaneous glory. It's a long process, and only for those willing to put in all the work. And new player could sell organics if they wanted to. But you cannot tell me that putting more organics out will keep you or anyone else from camping them. You (as a collective) have to work for some things you want. You have to experience trial and error.

Btw, one thing you can do along the way is when you get dna you dont want, then you can sell it. I bought some at an auction once.
well laid out arguement for the increase in drop rate, not to scream and rant for no good reason
I am quite tired of listening to people say "this needs to be changed" b/c they just don't want to accept that it takes alot of work and perseverance. If you have high expectations for your bio pet plans, then it's going to take some time and patience. If you wanted to make a care bear bio, you would already have one. But you want extreme, so welcome to 'extreme work', lol.


(edited for less of a punch to the gut :wink: )
Last edited by Llexa on Sun Dec 07, 2008 7:55 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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+Colibri
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Re: Organics

Post by +Colibri »

Well, another thread with lots of text... at first i was considering a change but then i thought:
1. So many people have already found a way to make a nice strong biopet
2. There are currently approximately 42 bio creatures in existance
3. I've put in an extra organics spawn, use it.

The more uber monster you want to create, the more you will fail. Try something medium for starters. It's a risk:reward... the more effort you put in, the better stats you can have on your bio. If you fail all the time, that means you should consider if you want to blow 50 vials on one monster where you have 2% chance of getting it... or should you rather pick another monster.

The game is about trying to achieve something. You set your own difficulty level, and try to achieve it. It's about finding a way to your goal, not trying to get your goal to be easier.


Has anyone tried my recent idea with the slimes in britain swamps - trying to get newbies to gather the organics for you and buying them from the newbies? Also there's a quest in the newbie dungeon that gives organics... why not hire a few newbies (under 21 days account age) and get them to do that quest over and over. Then buy them at a nice price and you'll all be happy.
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