Healing + Dex Discussion

[Gwendolyn]

I vote to keep it as is. I have 120healing and 207 Dex so I put a bandage on every 1 second. I can tell you that it is still very easy to die out there like that. Like when you are fighting more than one monster. Okay, you won't die in easy dungeons, but in a mage quest dungeon death is just a few wrong moves away.

Even if i use Angelic Form, I still need a .4 second pause in order for razor to macro it properly. Maybe that is something I'm doing wrong in setting the macro, but I can't get a 0 sec pause to work.

zero second pause = dont put a pause there


derp

<3

alternatively, thats a latency problem.

i can make a macro that says

[bandself

and just hit play w/ loop and it runs fine

[Adrias]

Just as a reference:
150 base dex can be brought up to 190+ dex just by using angel form + bless.
25 additional dex is really easy to get.

125 base dex can be brought up to around 160-165 dex by the same method.
50-55 dex is still decently easy to get.

+8 dex from weapon
+24 from jewelry (32 if using necklace. can be 4 points higher with ring/brace giving 10).
+8 dex from dread pirate hat / hunter's headdress
+10 from batwings
+5 from Tactical Arms of Excellence
+8 dex from puglist gloves
+15 from jackal's collar
+78 with using just pretty normal gear
+86 if using a necklace
+90 if using +10dex jewels

Of course if you are trying to accomplish 215 dex without any buffs it is much more difficult You can reach 215 dex without any buffs with or without raising your dex cap or relayed items. You are likely gimping yourself though .

To switch notes I still do not see what the big deal is. So what you can stand there and not die with something hitting you, you can pretty much already do that with druid trees. It is much less of an issue to me then people (myself included) who can use 5 imps and kill bosses in a minute when it takes someone trying to melee it half an hour. Heck it is even easier to just use 5 mules to kill something quickly.

Personally I have pretty much stopped using pets unless I know a fight is going to take forever without them (peerless bosses for example) because it is so boring for me to sit there and constantly cast Tactus Vitalis on them (nevermind the really bad AI) but at the same time I have not tried to max out my dex at the sake of gimping my other stats and I do not seem to die all that often (although I am playing as an archer so that helps ).

[TheWatcher]

Ok a few more of my opinions

If everything becomes considerably easy to do here for the vets/relayering players, then I think we are in danger of losing some players due to a lack of challenges.

I do agree to a degree. I will however lose interest alot faster with "all kill" than i do with meleeing.

Veritas' Basic premis for this isn't systematic(its Overpowered, etc), it is his personal opinion on what is and is not fun.

Gwenno (do you mind if i call you that?) Is right. Being 'close' to godlike, and I think close is the most appropriate word as I said I do die quite often, still has challenges and is fun. As stated by people before, using pets makes your more Godlike in my opinion. Will nerfing dex healing promote more guild hunts? or just encorage people to still solo just using pets. If the idea is to promote guild hunts remove pets from the game. Have some old school cross healing to stay alive, 1 dexer to healing mages etc...

and on one relayer for an item with let's say more than +10 dex bonus, if that relayer has been made in the last few months.

Not one of my relayers has more than +10 dex as they are all weapons where the max dex I can put on em is 8. So does that mean i will not get anything back if these changes occur?

Fact also is that having fun is the main purpose of this game

I agree totally, but as i stated it is more fun for me to melee than it is with pets. As it is i only have to bring them out for maybe 1% of my hunting. If that number where to increase to say 25% I might play and hunt less that i usually would.

To switch notes I still do not see what the big deal is. So what you can stand there and not die with something hitting you, you can pretty much already do that with druid trees.

Amen. While thinking about this last night this stuck me. Adding on to Pennys points about how to become godlike... Spend 200 eds get a druid spell book. Get your HP over 200 odd (with doom atries, headband of power and headbank of power, jewelery and some GOC gear pretty easy to do) cast enchanted grove and bam... Godlike. Will druid trees be nerfed too?

More 2c worth

[anarchy]

i die a lot at umbris camp (which is always empty when i go), and in that area you need insta heal/spell casting heal. what i do believe needs to be changed is the normal mage spell greater heal. when i first started here that's all the spell i used to heal myself due to bandies being so slow, and then i learned of touch of life, which not only healed faster (by far); it also seemed to heal more. i feel badly for the newer players who start here now, because of that disability to use bandies AND greater heal/touch of life. also, ressing with bandies should be faster (by far), because it allows newer player hunting parties to resurrect their party mates without fizzling on the resurrect spell. have you ever tried to melee a crystal giant? not an easy thing with insta heal (they do 150+ damage sometimes), a toxic elemental in proxy (200+ damage sometimes), or try to melee an ice wyrm (still haven't figured out how to do that one ).

also, it balance out between the warrior castes and the pet tamer. the warrior relies on his ability to heal himself, while the pet tamer relies on healing his loyal pets. if you take away the warrior's ability to heal (fast and a lot) you'll take away the fun of being a warrior.

Imprisoned. always thought they were a little too powerful. fix: take away the instinct bonus, and allow hps only loss upon death (i wanted to say allow str loss upon death, but i fear people would be terrible upset about that).


But... it's Colibri's and the staff's shard so gotta go with what they plan, and thanks for letting me play here.
much lub!

[+Veritas]

"So he's basically telling his player base what we should think is fun and that isn't very fair."

*Slowly moves hand across his screen, using the force*

You WIll think what I think is right, and agree with me 100% of the time...

<3

+V

[Gwendolyn]

"So he's basically telling his player base what we should think is fun and that isn't very fair."

*Slowly moves hand across his screen, using the force*

You WIll think what I think is right, and agree with me 100% of the time...

<3

+V

I just Lol'd so hard

<3

[krystol]

-> 'nuff said

[Nelapsi]

"So he's basically telling his player base what we should think is fun and that isn't very fair."

*Slowly moves hand across his screen, using the force*

You WIll think what I think is right, and agree with me 100% of the time...

<3

+V

If you had the ed investment directly related to this discussion, it wouldn't be a joking matter.

[+Veritas]

"If you had the ed investment directly related to this discussion, it wouldn't be a joking matter."

Look...I deeply apologize for adding a mixture of humor to try and lighten up the feeling here, while at the same time pointing out the ridiculousness of the pointed out statement. I once again state, I completely understand what it takes to invest in a goal on this shard...especially one like obtaining a high stat.

Also...I, again, stress...this is in the Discussion phase.

Just curious...does anyone think there should be a cap on healing at all? We have a cap for swing speed increase and defense chance increase.

+V

[Ruewyn]

haha Vertitas. very funny.

I think the issue with healing is a problem because of macro's from the add-on programs. Razor..easyuo... If we had to manually press a hotkey to [bandself every .3 seconds, like the original game design intended. You DESERVE to be healed that often.
Personally I don't use macro's like this when fighting. I could, many do. I don't consider it cheating to use macro's, but at the point you stop playing the game and it starts to play itself, it isn't fun anymore. But that is up to each person to decide what is fun for them, Without breaking the rules of the server.

Staff, I'd love to see new content, especially the new warriors dungeon that has been talked about. Perhaps monsters can be worked in some places to make 'insta' healing useless without a group to help. (ie insta death). But even if you create a new near invincible boss, someone will find a way (after much dieing) to kill it solo, and then it will be camped forever after. It is the way of the gamer.

[Nelapsi]

"If you had the ed investment directly related to this discussion, it wouldn't be a joking matter."

Look...I deeply apologize for adding a mixture of humor to try and lighten up the feeling here, while at the same time pointing out the ridiculousness of the pointed out statement. I once again state, I completely understand what it takes to invest in a goal on this shard...especially one like obtaining a high stat.

Also...I, again, stress...this is in the Discussion phase.

Just curious...does anyone think there should be a cap on healing at all? We have a cap for swing speed increase and defense chance increase.

+V

I heard you when you first said this was a discussion and that ended when +C said this was a bug. I'm a software developer by profession, I know what happens to bugs. I personally am not saying that healing shouldn't be capped and on a normal shard with normal things, it would be very powerful (even too powerful) but on this shard it is merely an equalizer. Instant heal is the only way people can play here without having to rely on pets and even then, cannot do everything without pets. I can only speak for myself but since you have chosen to aim directly at a select few (The number of instant heal players cannot be that high) it does seem like we are targeted considering the overpowering aspects of the shard that effect even greater numbers (This isn't the first time said either in case no one is reading all the posts). As I already posted, your stat cap is missing and is what has healing and everything based on stats producing results that are rather excessive, another example is SSI on other shards is important but here with 220 dex is rather useless.

BUT... read this.. BUT

To fix/resolve/change this issue here and not balance out pets as well is insane because instant heal isn't the whole problem.

If you want to know my read on this, it is simple and it starts with the Umbris camp. You easily found a way to negate the usage of pets, they were being slaughtered by the droves that first day. The problem was those people with instant heal started to figure out how to take things on and eventually could do so single handedly. This negated your desire for people to work together in groups and as a team. So instant heal suddenly became an even bigger problem. That is my take on this entire situation.

Personally, I can solve this problem in many ways and never recode the healing equation. You want a quick fast solution, cap out how much stat bonus you can get from spells. Say if a spell is cast and it raises your stat above greater then 199, it stop at 199. Your instant heal probably will get a lot smaller a lot faster. The next solve your stat cap problem with items, takes a little coding yes but as I stated in a previous post there is a fair way to do it with respect to all sides of the problem. I think that is what is missing with your (read staff, not just +V) solution is because it shows very little respect towards the player base that has worked very hard at doing something that +C (Maybe +V and/or +C) allowed because you did every relayer. No player can do this or sneak behind your back.

Edited: I think 1 or 2 other staff can now do relayers, so changed part of a statement to reflect that.

[Penny]

Just curious...does anyone think there should be a cap on healing at all? We have a cap for swing speed increase and defense chance increase.

Atm, ny cap is about 0.5 seconds, due to the lag between me and the server (which varies) and i have to cast spells too (consecrate weapon, divine fury, mirror image). And 1.0 sec heals won't change the results that much. Monsters hit far less
than once a second. 90% of the times when I'm dead with 1.0 sec heals, I'd be dead with 0.5 sec heals.

Does anyone from staff think that pet users are more powerful than soloers? I feel like I'm ignored when I try say that we (soloers) aren't the only ones with the god-like ability to do things.. And we are just trying to enjoy the chance to fight
as big'n'bad monsters as possible and take the hits ourselves, instead of whipping out the pets and pressing "play" on heal-loop macro.

For me fast healing provides another viable way to hunt besides pets, even though sometimes I still need to use pets
(I did solo parox once, but for the sake of public I turned my death announce off after a couple minutes..).

(and I have developed a very big distaste to using them, the mindless buggers lol.)

[+Veritas]

@Penny

I agree with you on the pets thing. Sorry if you feel like you were being ignored, or anyone else who brought this up. Having the capability to use 10 nobles/dogs or 3 biopets does put up an impressive front. I do not believe it is unrelated to the discussion of "what is too powerful." However, I will say that pets are only as effective as their controllers. Depending on the fighting situation, if the controller dies and takes long to come back and give new commands and heal them, it can end bad. This is true with just about all pets, with maybe the exception of biohumans who can self-heal.

Very good point. Keep the discussion rolling...and don't take it personal. Because it's not.

+V

[Nelapsi]

However, I will say that pets are only as effective as their controllers.
+V

Almost every aspect of this game suffers or is effected by this phrase, not just pets and pet owners. I think it was this thread that someone stated how a druid with trees was immortal yet I cannot tell you the number of "druids" I have seen die with trees up. Instant Heal is the same way, think you are immortal? It is only so good because there are quite a few creatures that do over 400 hps damage in a single hit. You can have 300 dex and nothing will help you overcome it. Ask Kronus...

I am willing to bet that even if you change the healing equation, you won't change how I fight or even who I fight because of two reasons, How I have things setup and since I have never healed 192 in a second I obviously don't rely on that. I think is what baffles me about this entire discussion actually, rewriting the healing equation won't solve the problem. What it will do is increase the value of the "Breath of the Dead", it has 100% Life Leech and let me tell you it rocks.

This is why I stress solving the problem not slapping some solution without thought as the poll suggestions (Not saying no one is thinking but the poll options do not deal with a solution in my opinion). If you still allow 220 dex and easily amped up swing speed then you will find yourself right back to this discussion except the next one will be how do you nurf that weapon without pissing off half the shard because they have one now. If you think this won't happen, look at how many people want the Titan Hammer artifact. This is because stats are uncapped and it is one of the best str bonus items once relayered.

[Penny]

I know that with insta-healing it's hard to make challenges, makes the line between nearly dead and dead very short.
Makes it kinda black and white.

But on the other hand, if healing is limited too much, it'll leave a lot of the things beyond reach. Which is no fun.

Maybe it's possible to limit healing, but make more monsters accessible? Something new for the warriors, giving
the chance to fight the hardest bosses and win ( a few deaths can be within a margin of error). I know someone might
say "Whoa dude, you're way too OP" but it'll still be forever faster and easier with imp pets.

Any ideas on what could be added for the warrior?

C'mon, let's put Player back to PvM!