Pets armor rating? How do you know?

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Decidion
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Pets armor rating? How do you know?

Post by Decidion »

I understand there is a way to know a pets AR if you bred it (or so I have been told), but if you bought it, how do you know or how can you see what the AR is? How do you know if it lost AR from a death? And how much AR can your pet have?

Most perplexing of all, if your pet has 75% physical resist, what exactly does AR do for your pet? (do players have an AR as well?)

Sorry for all the questions, but I'm at that stage where the answers I get in chat only raise more questions than they answer :)

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Kaervas
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Re: Pets armor rating? How do you know?

Post by Kaervas »

Decidion wrote:I understand there is a way to know a pets AR if you bred it (or so I have been told),
When you assign ability points you can see the pets armor rating, if the pet is high enough to have armor assigned to it, which is definitely possible at level 30. I'm not sure of the minimum level you can assign armor but it should be 29 or around that. The Pet Leveling page on the wiki doesn't state it, but since damage unlocks at 19, and stats unlock at 39, armor unlocking at 29 is logical since it is directly between the two in the ability points gump.
Decidion wrote:but if you bought it, how do you know or how can you see what the AR is?
Since it doesn't show on the shrunken pet's tooltip, you cannot find out unless you do one of three things:
  • If the pet has ability points, open the menu and you can see how much out of 70 AR it possess when you try to assign more ability points.
  • Attempt to add armor to the pet using an ointment mixed with a green thorn (+1 AR) - if you can't, then it's at 70 AR.
  • Ask a staffer.
Decidion wrote:How do you know if it lost AR from a death?
I'm pretty sure that they don't lose AR from deaths. At least, I've not needed to fix mine on pets that have suffered the 5% stat loss (and it also happened to be a pet which had spare ability points, so I could actually see that it was still at 70 armor via the AP gump).
Decidion wrote:And how much AR can your pet have?
70 max on a bred pet. AR cannot be increased above this value with ointments. Certain generation 1 pets (aka fresh tames) can possess more than 70 armor but this is lowered to the 70 cap when the pet is bred.
Armor also resets with each breed to the default value (or 70 if the default value for the pet is higher). For example, a hell hound starts with 30 armor. If you train it up, max its armor out to 70, and then breed it, the baby will once again have 30 armor, effectively wasting 40 of the parents AP that did not carry over to the baby.
Decidion wrote:Most perplexing of all, if your pet has 75% physical resist, what exactly does AR do for your pet? (do players have an AR as well?)
I'm told that it reduces damage from physical attacks even further, and does stack with physical resist. I need some solid confirmation on this myself (preferably straight from the code, parsing damage in game is terrible since the combat log is primitive as hell and the floating combat text is equally primitive).
Players *only* used to have AR, but with the advent of Age of Shadows, AR was converted to physical resistance for players (at the same time the 4 other elemental resists were added). You can still see some remnants of the old system here like in the rewards gump - the old "+2 AR cloak/robe" which now grants 3% physical resist.
Decidion
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Re: Pets armor rating? How do you know?

Post by Decidion »

Thanks for all the great info. Since none of my current pets have any ability points available, I'll just have to try and add some AR ointments to them to see. I think it would be a great boon if there was a way to change a shrunken pet's tooltip to show AR.

I used to play UO years ago, when AR was the only thing you had to be concerned with, so the resists were all new to me, and this caused a lot of questions, but thanks for answering them.
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Tael
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Re: Pets armor rating? How do you know?

Post by Tael »

Kaervas wrote:I'm told that [AR] reduces damage from physical attacks even further, and does stack with physical resist. I need some solid confirmation on this myself (preferably straight from the code [...])
I'd like verification as well. I'm sceptical based on AR being part of an obsolete system. I can see how it survived as an entry in the data structure while being replaced in function by the new resist system. It really doesn't make sense that it would still work.

I wouldn't mind seeing the code myself, though. I'm an old C hacker, so I think I'd have no problem reading it (isn't it C# or something?). Is there any way I can get a copy of the code as it's implemented on Excelsior?
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Harabakc
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Re: Pets armor rating? How do you know?

Post by Harabakc »

I don't use it on any of my pets, and it is my opinion that it has a very minimal impact if any. If it effects anything, it's only going to be special attacks.

Yes Runuo is coded in C#.
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Melkor
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Re: Pets armor rating? How do you know?

Post by Melkor »

I am wondering, do we know for sure if the AR rating on Pets has any effect? Some vet players say yes, some say no. I'm in the process of ointing my pets and really don't want to waste 70x5 oints for nothing. I'm kind of thinking it does not have an effect just becasue it's an "old" rating not in use anymore for players. But I would love to know for sure.

Thanks

Melkor
NewPlayer241
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Re: Pets armor rating? How do you know?

Post by NewPlayer241 »

On the subject of armor rating I am 99% sure it isn't used in any of the current combat equations.

For those curious armor pieces still do have AR on them that can seen using the skill arms lore, plate armor has a much higher AR value then leather armor. I have done a bit of experimenting and full plate with all 70 resists doesn't seem to provide anymore protection then full leather with all 70 resists.
Rune
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Re: Pets armor rating? How do you know?

Post by Rune »

hmm im kinda in two minds about this
im not sure it actuly works but pet ar should sorta work like our old ar but maybe it works like our defense chance

either way it would be good to get confirmed :)
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Melkor
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Re: Pets armor rating? How do you know?

Post by Melkor »

+Colibri, do you know the answer to this and would be willing to share it please?
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BlaZe
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Re: Pets armor rating? How do you know?

Post by BlaZe »

Ripped from BaseWeapon.cs, this is on RunUO 2.0 so it may be slightly different for us.

Code: Select all

int virtualArmor = defender.VirtualArmor + defender.VirtualArmorMod;

if ( virtualArmor > 0 )
{
	double scalar;

	if ( chance < 0.14 )
		scalar = 0.07;
	else if ( chance < 0.28 )
		scalar = 0.14;
	else if ( chance < 0.43 )
		scalar = 0.15;
	else if ( chance < 0.65 )
		scalar = 0.22;
	else
		scalar = 0.35;

	int from = (int)(virtualArmor * scalar) / 2;
	int to = (int)(virtualArmor * scalar);

	damage -= Utility.Random( from, (to - from) + 1 );
}
return damage;
The 'chance' variable comes in a few lines up where it figures what part of the body the damage will be directed at (for determining which piece of armor should lose durability, which doesn't matter in this case) and 'virtualArmor' is the pet's Armor Rating. Glancing at this, I'd say Armor Rating makes a pretty notable difference against non-magic attacks.
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Melkor
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Re: Pets armor rating? How do you know?

Post by Melkor »

I'm going for it, I'll let you know if I notice a difference.
KnitePrince
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Re: Pets armor rating? How do you know?

Post by KnitePrince »

i have taken a mule with 0 AR and killed balrons with it, then used a 70 AR mule.. although unscientific, there was a noticeable difference in how much I had to heal the two. I saw this debate in another thread some time ago so ran that test.. as i said, unscientific.. but enough to convince me AR does something.
The difference was however, not great enough to concern me even a little, however, if the mobs you are fighting are much harder than balrons, having the AR maxed may be of greater value.
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Devlin
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Re: Pets armor rating? How do you know?

Post by Devlin »

bump. I'm updating the wiki and kinda curious about this. I'm under the impression that 70 AR adds 10% damage reduction from phys damage only. It may have been Blaze that told me this, but I can't remember.

Train of thought based off a TS convo... Full 70 resists on a player represents 70% dmg reduction to that elemtent. Pets have a max of 75 for resists, leaving them taking 25% dmg. First off, does that 10% damage reduction from 70 AR apply before or after? So they take 15% damage (10% off the top), or they take 22.5% damage (10% of 25%.)

So yeah.
-this is a very old bump
-Is it 10% phys dmg reduction?
-If so, is it 10% off the top, or 10% off the remainder (pet has 60 fire resist, open to 40% damage then. It gets an extra 4% so 64 fire resist?)
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Wil
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Re: Pets armor rating? How do you know?

Post by Wil »

Kaervas wrote:When you assign ability points you can see the pets armor rating, if the pet is high enough to have armor assigned to it, which is definitely possible at level 30. I'm not sure of the minimum level you can assign armor but it should be 29 or around that. The Pet Leveling page on the wiki doesn't state it, but since damage unlocks at 19, and stats unlock at 39, armor unlocking at 29 is logical since it is directly between the two in the ability points gump.
Hello,

The level unlocks are:

2 (first time you have any ability points): hp/stam/mana (up to 1000/500/1000)
10: resists (up to 75 each)
20: min/max damage (up to 17/25)
30: armor (AR) (up to 70)
40: str/dex/int (up to 1000/250/750 or 250/125/175 depending on pack instinct)

They do not unlock on the 9's. A level 29 pet will show the min/max damage buttons but not the armor button.

Kaervas wrote:
Decidion wrote:Most perplexing of all, if your pet has 75% physical resist, what exactly does AR do for your pet? (do players have an AR as well?)
I'm told that it reduces damage from physical attacks even further, and does stack with physical resist. I need some solid confirmation on this myself (preferably straight from the code, parsing damage in game is terrible since the combat log is primitive as hell and the floating combat text is equally primitive).
I couldn't tell you the formula but my pets with 70 AR tend to take less damage than my pets with 0 AR.


As others have mentioned:

The easiest way to know is to leave 1 ability point on the pet so you can always call up the gump and see.

Failing that, you can confirm whether AR is under 70 by applying the appropriate ointment. If the ointment fails to apply, AR is at least 70.

When breeding pets, don't apply points to AR on intermediate breeds. AR does not carry over to the children, so points applied there are lost for breeding purposes.

Every other stat you can apply points to carries over to the children. Also, once hp/stam/mana are maxed on both parents, there's a chance of randomly gaining points over the max on the children, so these are good stats to max early in the breeding line.

Regards,
Wil
Dementika
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Re: Pets armor rating? How do you know?

Post by Dementika »

i don't know where you guy's got the idea that armor rating was damage reduction, i guess it's from players that played pre-aos. Armor rating is still a live formula that is used as part of the hit chance / evade formula. That formula is hardcoded, aka you can't mess with it unless you're a scripting guru, as it's not in the base scripts, you'd have to modify the core of UO.

Think of armor rating as the ''defend chance inc'' of all mobiles. The hit formula from my experience (don't take this as the EXACT formula as i don't have access to it like everyone else, i just played with AR a ton on other servers i scripted on) is something like :


(attacker weapon skill + 20) * (100% + hit chance)
divided by
(defender weapon skill + 20) * ( 100% + Armor rating / 2 (0 AR being 100%, 90 AR being 145% ) * 100


You'll always have a 2% chance to hit minimum as an attacker, and to my knowledge there's no maximum AR as a creature, compared to defend rating which is capped for players.

So AR becomes quite important on pet's, even more if their wrestling is only at 100 and you are fighting things with more than 100 wrestling (as you can see above, if the monster attacking would have a higher odd of hitting if its only weapon skill + 20 VS weaponskill + 20 * 100, AR will give you a higher chance that your pet will be missed. The maximum AR 70 on excel system would mean 35% bonus on the formula.

Of course, if you haven't read carefully, it doesnt mean its 35% less likely to be hit from 0 to 70 AR, since its a % formula divided by attacker/defender. Given equal skill formula top/bottom you have 50% chance to hit, so again, given equal skill if you add 70 AR, you'll have around 40-41% chance to hit, more or less (don't quote me on the exact number, just giving an estimate)

For the unbelievers, this is quite easy to test with your own server, or friendly GM/dev on here, ask them to give themselves, or a monster 10,000 AR, and attempt to hit it. You'll have alot of fun swinging on air 98% of the time.
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