Vendor Update 2018

[+Requiem]

The purpose of a vendor, is to sell an item or items for you, while you are afk/away doing other things. The purpose isn't to negotiate the price. It's to sell stuff, hopefully at the price set by the seller. If you want to negotiate prices, you can make a shop where there are tables, and either talk with other players in game, or make a forum post to discuss it.

Hi +R,

What is the need to dictate the purpose of a vendor from on high? In the TC-style vendors you have a game mechanic which, voting with their feet, the players seem to like. Why not let the players decide what the purpose of that game mechanic is and how best to put it to use?

Regards,
Wil

Because in my eyes, it's a broken mechanic. My idea failed, and people are using it in unintended ways. So, we can try to fix it, or it can go back to the way it was. I'd still prefer to see high end items on vendors, so going back to the old way wouldn't solve that issue. It would also likely cause more issues, since now that we've given you something nice, it wouldn't be great to take it away, just because it didn't work perfectly.

A lot of players have also expressed concerns/complaints about the system. This is our attempt at addressing those complaints.

Also, I'd like to point out - I'm not necessarily against people negotiating prices (even though I don't see that as a function of a vendor). I am against people avoiding the tax/fees, based on my definition of a vendor. This solution still allows that (without avoiding fees) which was one of my main concerns.

Which I think the new proposal's solve. So, for instance:

If you put item X on your vendor for 1 million gold:

You get charged 50,000 (listing fee) if you remove it yourself. You get charged 100,000 (listing fee + sales fee) gold if it sells.
The percentages won't necessarily be 5% each, this is just an example. I don't think it needs to be any more complicated than that.

@Muokle Yes, that makes much more sense

[Honus]

I am not keen on being charged to remove an item. That's because I often remove something that does not sell to replace it with another item that may be in season ( like holiday Deco) or to just keep my vendor stock fresh so players return.

I might be open to having any item not being able to be traded for a week once removed from the vendor. That could solve the issue with getting around the vendor fees. When someone wants something they want it now...they usually don't want to wait. They go and find another.

[+Requiem]

I am not keen on being charged to remove an item. That's because I often remove something that does not sell to replace it with another item that may be in season ( like holiday Deco) or to just keep my vendor stock fresh so players return.

I might be open to having any item not being able to be traded for a week once removed from the vendor. That could solve the issue with getting around the vendor fees. When someone wants something they want it now...they usually don't want to wait. They go and find another.

I would rather go back to a straight daily fee in this case.

[Wil]

Because in my eyes, it's a broken mechanic. My idea failed, and people are using it in unintended ways.

Hi +R,

I respectfully disagree. The finest art to improving things is realizing when to stop. You got the vendor mechanics at TC basically right, as exhibited by their exceptional popularity. Quit while you're ahead.

I don't have a TC vendor myself and I'm a little envious of the folks who figured it out before I realized I wanted one. Nevertheless, I'm not in to schadenfreude and don't want to see it nerfed. If you touch it, please touch it in the smallest of ways. Like limiting it to one per player if you don't already.

I don't think that TC should be drastically changed, or moved. I think it's important to have a central hub/vendor area, and it makes sense to keep it as Town Centre. However, I would suggest changing the starting location for new players to Ex Halls.

That idea is growing on me. I think you're right. That's a better plan than relocating the TC vendors. Move the TC new player resources and starting location to Ex Halls instead. It's just the sort of revamp Ex Halls could use.

Regards,
Wil

[Animol]

Move the TC new player resources and starting location to Ex Halls instead.

I don't think this is a good idea.

1. Ex Halls is a ghost town. Not an ideal place to make a good first impression.
2. Majority of players nowadays are people who had already played UO at some point. Let them see something familiar when they start their adventure here (like for example Brit), no need to slap them in the face with a custom location God knows where right off the bat. I remember logging in for the first time and not knowing where the hell I am. Ex Halls would be even more confusing.

[Yoda]

yeah just backscroll and impliment what MattWaldram said in its entirety without modifications and you will have a good time, really after reading that ... nailed it 100% nothing to debate.

[Charon]

Move the TC new player resources and starting location to Ex Halls instead.

I don't think this is a good idea.

1. Ex Halls is a ghost town. Not an ideal place to make a good first impression.
2. Majority of players nowadays are people who had already played UO at some point. Let them see something familiar when they start their adventure here (like for example Brit), no need to slap them in the face with a custom location God knows where right off the bat. I remember logging in for the first time and not knowing where the hell I am. Ex Halls would be even more confusing.

To your points
1. Explain why Ex Halls isn't a good place and TC is? The reason why it is a Ghost town...is well, I don't know, maybe because there is nothing in it.

2. Neither TC nor EX Halls exist on an OSI shard so why would EX Halls be more confusing than TC?
OSI shards had Haven for a time which Vets couldn't visit. Noobs even ones that played the original series didn't
seem to have any issues being in a Town that was completely new to them, at least none that I knew.
These old players even liked to see a new town to the land many knew so well.

EX halls needs some TLC, moving TC vendors or Tokuno vendors would be a good place to start, or move New players features there.

Just my opinion.

[Animol]

1. Explain why Ex Halls isn't a good place and TC is? The reason why it is a Ghost town...is well, I don't know, maybe because there is nothing in it.

Where did I say TC is a good starting point? Just because it's better doesn't mean it's particularly good. At least there are people in TC so yeah, there's that - even if you feel completely lost there's someone to show you around. Also, I'm not insisting on changing the starting location, TC is not too terrible (because it's populated). My point is if there's ever a vote I'll vote against Ex Halls because such change wouldn't make any sense.

2. Neither TC nor EX Halls exist on an OSI shard so why would EX Halls be more confusing than TC?

Because TC is tiny, everything is in one place and you actually see people after you log in. Ex Halls has almost zero value for new players. Sure, you might go there at one point to train necro or ninjitsu and mark a rune in front of the Mistvale entrance, but that's it. Like you said, "there's nothing in it", so a freshly baked noob would end up wandering all alone around this big shiny custom place with weird NPCs only to realize it's a pointless excursion and it's time to go someplace where you can actually do something meaningful and find other people.

EX halls needs some TLC, moving TC vendors or Tokuno vendors would be a good place to start

And then what? If you start moving important/useful features then players will move with them and you'll end up replacing one ghost town with another. There's simply not enough people here to significantly populate multiple areas. Maybe it wasn't an issue a few years ago with 300+ online but it sure is now.

or move New players features there.

What new players features are there to move? Portal to the donation room? Besides, noobs don't need their separate special place just to log in for the first time. Haven you mentioned is a completely different story because it's a whole island designed with noobs in mind - all NPCs you need, easy mobs in the area, accelerated gains and so on.

[Charon]

Ugh....

Animol

Personally Ex halls is far nicer than TC and Tok.
If you moved TC or Tok Vendors to the vendor area in Ex halls (which is smaller than TC btw) and take the new player donation room etc to unused areas in EX halls as well you create a reason for Vets and new players to be there.

TOK has zero reason to have the vendors mall.
Making Tok a "ghost town" in favor of using Ex halls seems like a no brainer.
Nicer looking, the current vendor area in EX Halls is big enough to hold almost all the vendors from TC.
Western side outdoor area you could place all the Tok vendors.

Chess board area could be the Donation room, Guild Registry building could be the new "Training room".
Population is an on n off issue right now agreed.
We could put the 2 big vendor areas in one place and all new player content all in one spot.

My point on Haven was to discount your argument about players starting in some custom area and it being confusing.
That's been going on on OSI for what... 15 yrs? Again how is EX halls different than TC for being confusing?
Bear in mind are talking about putting vendors and thus Vets there too.


P.S. I like it the way it is, if we are talking changes to vendors why not make wholesale changes?
I would think the above could work nicely.

[Animol]

So we went from changing how vendors work to fixing a "noobs are starting next to overpriced TC vendors" situation to the complete revamp of Ex Halls. Sure, that could work. Let me know in a couple of years when that's done

Anyway, I'm gonna stop right there and wait for +'s input. Brainstorming is cool and all but if what you suggest is not an option then there's no point in drifting away from the main topic.

[Yoda]

yeah because being a condescending idea anti air gun is accomplishing SOOO much good call waiting for +

[Animol]

yeah because being a condescending idea anti air gun is accomplishing SOOO much

Let's call it a healthy skepticism. I've seen ill-considered ideas being rushed to production and backfiring too many times on various shards. UOEx's backlog is apparently long enough, no need to add more stuff that may end up being a waste of time and resources. You know - measure thrice, check twice and cut once.

[Charon]

So we went from changing how vendors work to fixing a "noobs are starting next to overpriced TC vendors" situation to the complete revamp of Ex Halls. Sure, that could work. Let me know in a couple of years when that's done

Anyway, I'm gonna stop right there and wait for +'s input. Brainstorming is cool and all but if what you suggest is not an option then there's no point in drifting away from the main topic.

Or...
Instead of brainstorming we can just sit back and bash everyone's comments without submitting a counter proposal or adding anything but criticism to the conversation.
YA, let's do that instead!

[Charon]

What about a tiered taxed system.
Item X sells for 1-50k tax is Y %
Items sells for 51k to 100k tax is Z%
n so forth.

That could solve a lot of problems with costs related to selling mid level priced items and would allow players to more lower end items on their vendor (which are more valuable and affordable to new players) without the seller incurring a high tax to sell it.
The high end items say over a million would have either a slightly lower tax rate than now or the same.
Cost of doing business so to speak.

I await the rebuttal on how this is impractical, would take too long to implement, or just plain ole doesn't make any sense.

[Animol]

Or...
Instead of brainstorming we can just sit back and bash everyone's comments without submitting a counter proposal or adding anything but criticism to the conversation.
YA, let's do that instead!

Yes, let's just pat ourselves on the back and never question anything because someone's feeling might get hurt. Have fun coming up with the best ideas ever. I'm out