Variable recall cooldown

Name says it all
User avatar
Wil
Legendary Scribe
Posts: 1227
Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2013 1:19 pm
Location: Seattle, WA, USA
Contact:

Re: Variable recall cooldown

Post by Wil »

Johnny Warren wrote:
Wed Feb 15, 2023 2:19 pm
There seems to be an argument for "Punishing a player because they play the game too much". Constant reminders that they "play for hours farming gold" I understand it is frustrating that I can't play as much as I want, and you all feel the same. But this is not a fair or valid argument. It's a rather stupid one.
Attended script-farming while you do something else in another window is indeed a normal and intended part of the game. But surely there's a farming intensity beyond which you're not playing the game so much as gaming the system?

One candidate solution we haven't discussed: farming ordinary monsters could have a per-account maximum daily drop. After that, monsters killed by that player simply don't drop gold. An hour of farming balrons. Ten hours of manual play. Whatever style you prefer, but there's a cap, and then if you want more gold you have to do something else.
User avatar
Johnny Warren
Legendary Scribe
Posts: 967
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2010 11:40 pm

Re: Variable recall cooldown

Post by Johnny Warren »

Wil wrote:
Wed Feb 15, 2023 2:34 pm

One candidate solution we haven't discussed: farming ordinary monsters could have a per-account maximum daily drop. After that, monsters killed by that player simply don't drop gold. An hour of farming balrons. Ten hours of manual play. Whatever style you prefer, but there's a cap, and then if you want more gold you have to do something else.
Sounds like turning the great game of ultima online into a mobile game... you get 1 hour of good play, then spend 5 bucks to unlock some gem currency to get another good go at it... :lool:

To continue my argument from before. There is absolutely nothing stopping anyone from doing what balron farmers do. Nothing at all. So stop whining, and start farming.
Last edited by Johnny Warren on Wed Feb 15, 2023 2:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
JOHNNY WARREN!
Image
ZeeeQi
Adept Scribe
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2021 2:35 am

Re: Variable recall cooldown

Post by ZeeeQi »

Johnny Warren wrote:
Wed Feb 15, 2023 2:19 pm
MarkM wrote:
Wed Feb 15, 2023 4:22 am
Pretty sure with ZeeeQi's script release to public, Balron's are not always being farmed! **In Response To Earlier Post** ((2AM CST and still here farming 4AM nobody else has come)) - ZeeeQi's the only one I see during this time Balron farming the last two days so he's still making good gold even after releasing the script. It effected those when he's not farming basically so he's still making good income for several hours. My view on this is.. IT IS WHAT IT IS.. You change anything people gonna complain.. YOU don't change anything people gonna complain! You cannot make everyone happy it's just the way of life. I rather be doing something else right now but i'm doing a public service by taking nearly half of ZeeeQi's income currently :nod: . :lookingout: I think +C should be working on other things than Variable cooldowns because no matter what gets done people will find a way around it regardless. :woot: BTW! I've noticed while I had a shift change in RL and when I can be on, that from 10PM CST-6AM or later AFK checks do not exist at all (3 Weeks of farming personally during these hours non stop with 0 AFK checks).. Is this why Parox and others farm during this time :?: Maybe a NEW GM that can be on during these hours would be a good thing perhaps? We are more worried about when most people can be on than when barely anyone is on.. Which is when some of the top tier players are hard at work making that gold with no other contenders without anyone else realizing. :nod: ** BTW +C your random Green HUGE blood elemental AFK check (9PM CST time) two days before auction asking what color am I was good! First time i've seen something other than what day is it.**
Couple of points: 1) You whining about timezones is really low, as someone who has to manipulate RL work etc to attend any auction due to thhem being timed best of US/EU players makes me mad. :verymad: Take the good with the bad. If I get a few hours of fewer players competitng for a spawn, that's excellent, but it doesn't make up for the fast the other 90% of the time I am shafted.

2) Naming and, attempting to shame, especially by making an inference some players are choosing the time they do activities to avoid scrutiny, is exceptionally low form. Scummy even. We have some unwritten forum etiquette here, notice nobody else is naming players. This kind of highlights the point to your post, that you are here to "take down" certain players, not add constructively to the argument.

Back to some general comments on this thread.

There seems to be an argument for "Punishing a player because they play the game too much". Constant reminders that they "play for hours farming gold" I understand it is frustrating that I can't play as much as I want, and you all feel the same. But this is not a fair or valid argument. It's a rather stupid one.

The other big thing that is i believe being overlooked, now that ZeeeQi has been named, is the discrepency in the perceived wealth gain vs the actual reality. We all have the auction data. ZeeeQi, paroxysmus and others you have mentioned ARE NOT SPENDING THE MOST GOLD AT THESE AUCTIONS. So, if their methods are annoying you, then you must be really mad at the few top dogs who spend significantly more, right? No, you're not annoyed at them. Because you've bought into the faux rage that a few players continue to stir around the "issue" of ballys. If you read the auction data you should be laying serious questions on how thhe real big spenders get their gold, we should be nerfing that, right? If this is actually about the good of the economy then there is an obvious problem, bigger than balrons, damaging it. Balrons is a distraction so the rich get richer and young players like ZeeeQi and Paroxysmus are struggling to catch up.

Last point, with ZeeeQi releasing the script for free (not charging 10s of millions for it like the other thread) and offering to help set it up, 100% of players now have access to this same wealth source. So, the problem is literally solved and +C can get back to much more important things, like FREEING THHE HUES! You cannot logically deny this statement is correct. If you do, you are really making a statement like "tell them to stop playing the game better than me". You wouldn't tell Daigo to stop using a shoriuken in Street fighter, because you couldn't beat him, right? If we take this balron problem and apply the ad infinitum argument to it, we will in a few months be saying, nerf X... a few months later, nerf Y, etc, ad infinitum. At some point we must all acknowledge there will always be more and less efficient ways to obtain gold in this game. Some of the posts have made it clear this is not actually about balrons being a problem, but that some of us, through lifestyle choices, can play the game for more hours than others and some players are annoyed at that.

EDIT: I Just noticed the auction data and actual wealth has been posted in the other thread on this topic. Logic dictates the discussion will turn at this point, right? Since we can now see the balrons are not the main problem, something else is... if this argument is actually about economy and not about keeping younger players poorer than the older ones...
You could have said it louder, but no clearer.

And about Nik's (AKA MarkM) post, i won't say anything as it's pretty self explanatory the hate on me
Zanzi
Elder Scribe
Posts: 139
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2021 12:20 am

Re: Variable recall cooldown

Post by Zanzi »

Zee I dont see this as being about you. I agreed with you 100% being in any time zones have their fair shares of ups/downs. In the North American time zone, many events are cater to that time zone and of course many are on at that time.

But if we look at script value. I have heard someone said you wanted to sell yours for 600m. If that is the case and you were serious, I don't think you should call attention to anyone wanting to sell scripts.

The fact that we got this much attention on this topic (more than any other topics I have seen to date), at least should tell that it warrant consideration with some sort of modification.
arni
Expert Scribe
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2023 2:38 pm

Re: Variable recall cooldown

Post by arni »

ButteryBiscuits wrote:
Wed Feb 15, 2023 1:08 pm
Seems like there is actually a lot of agreement on a few points.... correct me if I am wrong on this:

2. Both shard-wide recall delays and mana drain options will disproportionately hurt young, early level and mid level players. Young and early-level can't even do ballys. Mid-level may have a couple relayers and or pets and a decent weapon... but it takes quite a while to kill things (comparatively). Any gold they get out of ballys takes a long time (comparatively) and is well earned.
if it takes time to kill them exactly how would a recall delay hurt them????????????/
by the time they have killed it the delay has already cleared
ZeeeQi
Adept Scribe
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2021 2:35 am

Re: Variable recall cooldown

Post by ZeeeQi »

Zanzi wrote:
Wed Feb 15, 2023 3:18 pm
Zee I dont see this as being about you. I agreed with you 100% being in any time zones have their fair shares of ups/downs. In the North American time zone, many events are cater to that time zone and of course many are on at that time.

But if we look at script value. I have heard someone said you wanted to sell yours for 600m. If that is the case and you were serious, I don't think you should call attention to anyone wanting to sell scripts.

The fact that we got this much attention on this topic (more than any other topics I have seen to date), at least should tell that it warrant consideration with some sort of modification.
I was referring to Nik's comment about me: "I rather be doing something else right now but i'm doing a public service by taking nearly half of ZeeeQi's income currently :nod: ."

As for the script price, i have never wanted to sell it, i asked for 600M as a crazy price to keep him away.
Zanzi
Elder Scribe
Posts: 139
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2021 12:20 am

Re: Variable recall cooldown

Post by Zanzi »

Sadly, I would have consider buying it at one point (for a lot less of course) if balrons were left as it was a few months ago.
User avatar
Wil
Legendary Scribe
Posts: 1227
Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2013 1:19 pm
Location: Seattle, WA, USA
Contact:

Re: Variable recall cooldown

Post by Wil »

arni wrote:
Wed Feb 15, 2023 3:42 pm
if it takes time to kill them exactly how would a recall delay hurt them?
Think about other situations in which you might want to recall around quickly. Have you ever participated in an IDOC event?

Tweaking fast travel doesn't just affect kill farming, it affects every other use of fast travel too.
arni
Expert Scribe
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2023 2:38 pm

Re: Variable recall cooldown

Post by arni »

Wil wrote:
Wed Feb 15, 2023 4:26 pm
arni wrote:
Wed Feb 15, 2023 3:42 pm
if it takes time to kill them exactly how would a recall delay hurt them?
Think about other situations in which you might want to recall around quickly. Have you ever participated in an IDOC event?

Tweaking fast travel doesn't just affect kill farming, it affects every other use of fast travel too.
with out relayers or high end gear how are they travelling with limited mana/mana regen fast cast and fast cast recovery

and idoc normally uses mules so again takes time to load up mules
so again the delay wouldn't really effect that to much

recall lumber again takes time to chop
recall mining again takes time to mine
shops just as easy to use shop tele porters that have vendors and max them no delay on that.

someone killing a balron in two hits in maxed out gear takes far less time then any of that

But with the way we have it, it's possible to recall every 2 seconds, basically monitoring and farming about 20 spots, and you do the full list in 60 seconds. Sometimes there's a monster at the location, so make that about 90 seconds to do the full circle. And although that is fun to do, it's just too powerful. With most spawn being timed at 5-10 minutes, one can farm the best 20 spots on the shard, as long as they're not in Felucca/Ilshenar or other recall-disabled zone.

you cant mine lumberjack or do vendors in that time certainly not at 20 spots
User avatar
Muolke
Legendary Scribe
Posts: 796
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2015 6:30 pm

Re: Variable recall cooldown

Post by Muolke »

zeeeqi wrote:
Wed Feb 15, 2023 3:44 pm
Zanzi wrote:
Wed Feb 15, 2023 3:18 pm
Zee I dont see this as being about you. I agreed with you 100% being in any time zones have their fair shares of ups/downs. In the North American time zone, many events are cater to that time zone and of course many are on at that time.

But if we look at script value. I have heard someone said you wanted to sell yours for 600m. If that is the case and you were serious, I don't think you should call attention to anyone wanting to sell scripts.

The fact that we got this much attention on this topic (more than any other topics I have seen to date), at least should tell that it warrant consideration with some sort of modification.
I was referring to Nik's comment about me: "I rather be doing something else right now but i'm doing a public service by taking nearly half of ZeeeQi's income currently :nod: ."

As for the script price, i have never wanted to sell it, i asked for 600M as a crazy price to keep him away.
It’s interesting how some of the posters in this very thread are telling people I scammed them by charging 30-40mil for the script and when you asked 600mil (20 times as much) then that’s and it was just to keep someone away.

Either way, I’ve now had 2 people tell me that a certain someone (John Warren) is telling people I somehow scammed players by selling them a script. Not sure how it’s scamming them when I give a product for X amount of gold and that person agrees but…I guess since he’s your dear friend he’s just taking your side and being protective of you. Kind of slimy if you ask me…
ZeeeQi
Adept Scribe
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2021 2:35 am

Re: Variable recall cooldown

Post by ZeeeQi »

:D
Muolke wrote:
Wed Feb 15, 2023 5:32 pm
zeeeqi wrote:
Wed Feb 15, 2023 3:44 pm
Zanzi wrote:
Wed Feb 15, 2023 3:18 pm
Zee I dont see this as being about you. I agreed with you 100% being in any time zones have their fair shares of ups/downs. In the North American time zone, many events are cater to that time zone and of course many are on at that time.

But if we look at script value. I have heard someone said you wanted to sell yours for 600m. If that is the case and you were serious, I don't think you should call attention to anyone wanting to sell scripts.

The fact that we got this much attention on this topic (more than any other topics I have seen to date), at least should tell that it warrant consideration with some sort of modification.
I was referring to Nik's comment about me: "I rather be doing something else right now but i'm doing a public service by taking nearly half of ZeeeQi's income currently :nod: ."

As for the script price, i have never wanted to sell it, i asked for 600M as a crazy price to keep him away.
It’s interesting how some of the posters in this very thread are telling people I scammed them by charging 30-40mil for the script and when you asked 600mil (20 times as much) then that’s and it was just to keep someone away.

Either way, I’ve now had 2 people tell me that a certain someone (John Warren) is telling people I somehow scammed players by selling them a script. Not sure how it’s scamming them when I give a product for X amount of gold and that person agrees but…I guess since he’s your dear friend he’s just taking your side and being protective of you. Kind of slimy if you ask me…
You are the master of missdirection and only talking about what benefits you, i am not going to play that game.

Yes, i have said you selling it was a scam, not for selling it but for selling it when your intention have always been to attract attention to ballys so they get nerf. Also calling that you would be rich earning 500k/Hour when that's simply a lie, it's hard to do when you are alone with pretty high end gear, imagine a low-mid tier geared player competing with other 2 or 3 more for them...

As i said, my intention never was selling my script, that's why i asked that much gold for it, if i wanted to sell it i would have posted it long ago.

Screenshot_2023-02-15-23-52-19-61_40deb401b9ffe8e1df2f1cc5ba480b12.jpg
Screenshot_2023-02-15-23-52-19-61_40deb401b9ffe8e1df2f1cc5ba480b12.jpg (82.82 KiB) Viewed 5606 times
Screenshot_2023-02-15-23-53-07-93_40deb401b9ffe8e1df2f1cc5ba480b12.jpg
Screenshot_2023-02-15-23-53-07-93_40deb401b9ffe8e1df2f1cc5ba480b12.jpg (98.84 KiB) Viewed 5606 times
User avatar
Wil
Legendary Scribe
Posts: 1227
Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2013 1:19 pm
Location: Seattle, WA, USA
Contact:

Re: Variable recall cooldown

Post by Wil »

Muolke wrote:
Wed Feb 15, 2023 5:32 pm
Either way, I’ve now had 2 people tell me that a certain someone (John Warren) is telling people I somehow scammed players by selling them a script. Not sure how it’s scamming them when I give a product for X amount of gold and that person agrees but…I guess since he’s your dear friend he’s just taking your side and being protective of you. Kind of slimy if you ask me…
I wouldn't say you scammed anyone Muolke. Rather it's a question of class. Considering that we're all playing with software, data files and art that were, shall we say, appropriated from their owners, charging big bucks for our own software additions is rather tasteless.
ZeeeQi
Adept Scribe
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2021 2:35 am

Re: Variable recall cooldown

Post by ZeeeQi »

+Colibri wrote:
Tue Feb 07, 2023 6:51 pm
My guess here is that Muolke might be bringing more attention to the issue of balron farming, in a kind of controversial way that would get the conversation going. Maybe..?
Muolke wrote:
Tue Feb 07, 2023 7:56 pm
Haha! You’re on to me Colibri…

As you may have suggested, the point isn’t to make a ton of gold by selling this script. If that were the case I would be selling it for much more. The point is to level the playing field in a way. Yes it can certainly be shared among other players but again…my motive isn’t to get rich from this script.
This conversation might clarify Muolke's intention from the beggining, if that's not a scam, i dont know what is.

All he wanted was to bring attention (very successfully by the way) and at the same time get some extra money in his pockets
MarkM
Expert Scribe
Posts: 34
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2017 2:20 pm

Re: Variable recall cooldown

Post by MarkM »

Indeed Muolke the same guy PM me attacking me telling me I should be going after you and Zanzi.. I re read what I put earlier today and I do not see that as an attack rather me being funny ((Guess im not funny)). When I posted taking half of Zee's money I figured he'd get a laugh on that end! But no he feels attacked and John Warren came to protect him being a stellar friend of his. That being said, Zeee it was truly meant to be funny sorry you took it the way you did my apologies.
ZeeeQi
Adept Scribe
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2021 2:35 am

Re: Variable recall cooldown

Post by ZeeeQi »

MarkM wrote:
Wed Feb 15, 2023 6:16 pm
Indeed Muolke the same guy PM me attacking me telling me I should be going after you and Zanzi.. I re read what I put earlier today and I do not see that as an attack rather me being funny ((Guess im not funny)). When I posted taking half of Zee's money I figured he'd get a laugh on that end! But no he feels attacked and John Warren came to protect him being a stellar friend of his. That being said, Zeee it was truly meant to be funny sorry you took it the way you did my apologies.
It's all OK on my side, apologies accepted.
Post Reply