Rent Seeking Behavior

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Wil
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Re: Rent Seeking Behavior

Post by Wil »

Muolke wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2023 6:12 pm
What fraud? I don't even really Balron farm much at all.
The truth slips out. It's your competitors who farm the Balrons. You don't do it much at all. So if it were to suddenly stop working for them, they'd find it hard to compete. If, for example, the game rules around Balrons were to change...

Rent Seeking Behavior.
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Muolke
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Re: Rent Seeking Behavior

Post by Muolke »

DonQuixote wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2023 6:43 pm
The big thing is until ZeeeQi shared his script for free. Some "People" weren't against the Balron farming. In fact they were happy to make a profit off of it. Now the script is out and the opportunity at money, even just selling the script, is gone.

Thing is it's not really a problem anymore if everyone can do it. It just means more people will have gold to spend. This means those with more money will have to spend more to get what they want in auctions and such. And there will be more gold around.

I honestly could careless about the balron script. As of now there isn't one or two people cornering the market on it. And it's obvious to me that the people with more money on this server don't want anyone else to have as much.

That said there are those out there that do help others. And those people I appreciate.
I don't think i've seen a single person that wasn't against Balron farming before be against it now. Quite the opposite actually.

ZeeeQi released his script after I made mine available for sale. He was upset that I was making gold off of selling a script and since he's on from 2am to about 10-11am east coast time when nobody else is balron farming he decided to release his script to limit how many people would buy mine and because he realized that by him releasing it that it wouldn't really effect him much because there's not a lot of activity when he's doing the Balron farming anyways. Facts matter. Timelines matter. ZeeeQi isn't some generous player that released his script on his own free will. He only did it after certain events happened.
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Muolke
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Re: Rent Seeking Behavior

Post by Muolke »

Wil wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2023 6:47 pm
Muolke wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2023 6:12 pm
What fraud? I don't even really Balron farm much at all.
The truth slips out. It's your competitors who farm the Balrons. You don't do it much at all. So if it were to suddenly stop working for them, they'd find it hard to compete. If, for example, the game rules around Balrons were to change...

Rent Seeking Behavior.
Not at all because Zanzi was #1 on the auction list, Kairoz was #2, and ZeeeQi was #4 on that list...and guess what? We've all had multiple non-compete agreements on auction items and worked together to get the items we wanted. So none of these people ever posed a problem for me at auction...try again...
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Wil
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Re: Rent Seeking Behavior

Post by Wil »

Muolke wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2023 6:56 pm
and guess what? We've all had multiple non-compete agreements on auction items and worked together to get the items we wanted.
Wait. You rigged the auctions too?
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Muolke
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Re: Rent Seeking Behavior

Post by Muolke »

Wil wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2023 7:00 pm
Muolke wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2023 6:56 pm
and guess what? We've all had multiple non-compete agreements on auction items and worked together to get the items we wanted.
Wait. You rigged the auctions too?
Since when is an agreement between 2 players considered "rigging auctions"? You just can't stand the fact that i've been very successful. How much sleep have you lost over the years with all this jealousy? I hope this game wasn't a cause of you going bald...
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Muolke
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Re: Rent Seeking Behavior

Post by Muolke »

Wil wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2023 6:32 pm
Zeratul wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2023 6:09 pm
I’ve been to Seattle. Nice place if you like drug addicts and foggy weather.
You came in the wrong season. It's mild in the summer with long sunny days. Equinox to equinox we get just about the perfect weather to be outdoors. Yields some really neat experiences, like me in shirtsleeve weather atop the snow pack on Mount Ranier:

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You have a mask around neck and you're out in the mountains in the open? You're kidding right?

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Wil
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Re: Rent Seeking Behavior

Post by Wil »

Muolke wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2023 7:08 pm
You have a mask around neck and you're out in the mountains in the open? You're kidding right?
Mid-pandemic (when the picture was taken) the mask went around my neck when I left the house. Pull it up over my mouth and nose when appropriate. Leave it down and out of the way the rest of the time. it was the tie-behind-the-head sort of mask, so more convenient than tying and untying it every time I want to use it.

If I'd had an ear loop mask I expect I'd have kept it in my pocket instead. And raw-rubbed ears. The tie-behind type is much more comfortable.
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Wil
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Re: Rent Seeking Behavior

Post by Wil »

Muolke wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2023 7:06 pm
Since when is an agreement between 2 players considered "rigging auctions"?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bid_rigging

"Bid suppression collusion occurs when some of the conspirators agree not to submit bids to allow another conspirator to win the contract."
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Cezzar
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Re: Rent Seeking Behavior

Post by Cezzar »

Wil wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2023 7:19 pm
Muolke wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2023 7:06 pm
Since when is an agreement between 2 players considered "rigging auctions"?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bid_rigging

"Bid suppression collusion occurs when some of the conspirators agree not to submit bids to allow another conspirator to win the contract."
it's getting weird :)
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Muolke
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Re: Rent Seeking Behavior

Post by Muolke »

Wil wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2023 7:19 pm
Muolke wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2023 7:06 pm
Since when is an agreement between 2 players considered "rigging auctions"?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bid_rigging

"Bid suppression collusion occurs when some of the conspirators agree not to submit bids to allow another conspirator to win the contract."
Do you even know what a procurement auction is? It’s certainly not what we have on UOEX. Is copying and pasting Wikipedia links that you don’t understand the best you can do?
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Wil
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Re: Rent Seeking Behavior

Post by Wil »

Muolke wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2023 7:27 pm
Since when is an agreement between 2 players considered "rigging auctions"?

Do you even know what a procurement auction is? It’s certainly not what we have on UOEX. Is copying and pasting Wikipedia links that you don’t understand the best you can do?
Don't like that one? Have another:

https://mikebrandlyauctioneer.wordpress ... n-auction/
Typically, bidders collude by agreeing with each other to not bid against each other, allowing prices to decrease accordingly. [...] Auctioneers confronted with even strong evidence of collusion are often times pressed to do anything about it. If two bidders actually say, aloud, “Let’s not bid against each other, and later we’ll divvy up the profits …” then an auctioneer may be able to bar those two bidders from participating in the auction, and take other action against them. However, it is rarely so blatant, or easy to prove.
Still unhappy? Try this one:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/collusive_bidding
Under Section 1 of the Sherman Antitrust Act, collusive bidding is per se illegal.
Or this one:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/15/1
Every contract, combination in the form of trust or otherwise, or conspiracy, in restraint of trade or commerce among the several States, or with foreign nations, is declared to be illegal. Every person who shall make any contract or engage in any combination or conspiracy hereby declared to be illegal shall be deemed guilty of a felony
You may be a felon, son.
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Re: Rent Seeking Behavior

Post by Alibaster »

This is getting silly. I think I'll go do some Balron farming. :lool:
Alibaster in game!!
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Re: Rent Seeking Behavior

Post by Geriatric »

it gets fun when it gets silly.
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Turnabout
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Re: Rent Seeking Behavior

Post by Turnabout »

Muolke wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2023 6:56 pm
Wil wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2023 6:47 pm
Muolke wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2023 6:12 pm
What fraud? I don't even really Balron farm much at all.
The truth slips out. It's your competitors who farm the Balrons. You don't do it much at all. So if it were to suddenly stop working for them, they'd find it hard to compete. If, for example, the game rules around Balrons were to change...

Rent Seeking Behavior.
Not at all because Zanzi was #1 on the auction list, Kairoz was #2, and ZeeeQi was #4 on that list...and guess what? We've all had multiple non-compete agreements on auction items and worked together to get the items we wanted. So none of these people ever posed a problem for me at auction...try again...
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Johnny Warren
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Re: Rent Seeking Behavior

Post by Johnny Warren »

Muolke wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2023 6:54 pm

Facts matter. Timelines matter. ZeeeQi isn't some generous player

NB: I have paraphrased, and taken some of the above quote out of context, read the full post above to get the context, but the insinuation is the same.


Just a reminder, I have been to 2 WAG (ZeeeQi is guildmaster of WAG) 4x Harrower runs, actually the last was a 5x run. That costs 20mil + a pop of personal wealth sacrifice to run... ZeeeQi is exceptionally generous, competitive, yes, but generous also. Ask any new player that has needed help or gear. ZeeeQi does a lot of altruistic stuff (it's actually how we became friends on here) for no other reason than to try and share the fun. He has a play style that I find fairly dull for the most part, but he has never been greedy. Never been mean. Never been selfish.

Facts matter. Fact: ZeeeQi has used over 40m of personal wealth to put on harrower events for all to participate in, even giving away his stat scrolls to players who only got poor ones. If he was greedy and selfish wouldn't he have kept that valuable 40m for himself? Timelines matter. Timeline: The first WAG 4x harrower event was done way before this Rent Seeking Behaviour and mud slinging at his character for somehow grinding the game too hard, demonstrating he hasn't hosted these events to redeem a character flaw, but because he is actually generous and enjoys the fun of when the shard gets together.

As to the constant chatter about my hypocrisy. What Muolke says is partially true. I have long been one of the most vehement protestors about the use of AFK farming, particularly balrons. I am still sternly against AFK farming, thus my contributions to these recent threads have always been "more sophisticated and frequent AFK checks, with double checking only minutes apart". If someone is willing to sit and watch a screen for 8 hours a day play the game for them, then kudos, I know I can't, but it's within the rules. If someone is willing to run a script, unattended, with a scripted response to the meagre AFK checks we get, then they need to be punished, as per the rules. I changed my stance and decided to become a defender of what ZeeeQi (and now many others) do, recall farming, when the personal attacks on ZeeeQi began. That's when the switch for me was complete. I did not switch for "convenience or perrsonal benefit" as Muolke suggested, I switched when unfair attacks on a good guy started. I met ZeeeQi first in game trying to compete on balrons with my lame script. Chatting and getting to know him I realised his motives for playing and his genuine generosity and interest in keeping this place a healthy, cheat-free community. I even sent you a PM early in the piece before this forum explosion, Muolke, stating that you had ZeeeQi's motives all wrong, you might recall. Many may not know this but, ZeeeQi and I (mainly him) have actually provided the evidence to get numerous multi-accounters banned. Check the corpse in TC with my "defender of the economy" shirt (I actually have multiple of these). This is not easy to do and involves <redacted information here, not giving away the methods we use to uncover the cheats, but it is time consuming and sophisticated, +c won't act unless it is concrete>. Really, you should all be thanking ZeeeQi (and me, I am the "Protector of the Economy" after all) for ensuring our economy is not completely overrun by dual-boxing-AFK-bots, instead of attacking him. So, that's why I switched sides in this farming debate drastically, when personal attacks on one of the most generous and demonstrably fair players started. I am still, and always will be, 100% against AFK farming and anything that breaks the rules.

#FreeTheHues

Edit: Neatened some typos and added the mandatory hashtag.
JOHNNY WARREN!
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