Organics!

[Calan Caitin]

The idea of the organics being found in the newb dungeon was to provide young players a way to earn some gold by selling the organics to the bio-engineering vets. Unfortunately for all, some of the players were as Llexa discribed... impatient. By all means, take advantage of the gold offered from the ones that can afford it and are willing to pay that much, but don't shoot yourself in the foot by expecting it from everyone. The bios are meant to be the ultimate custom pet. It's suppose to be difficult to make them. There shouldn't be a flood of easy organics for everyone to farm, but I think the options available to the vets should be spread out more evenly. The genetic failures work well and the bio engineers I think do also. Why not make the the abomination spawn 3-4 times a day and split the organics by the amount of spawns per day? Doc Apoc is a fun spawn, but its much like Lord Oaks... You have to be the lucky lottery winner to find it active. Spawn timer is what? 5 days? I don't know if it's a guaranteed source of organics or not since I've only seen it twice since I've played here. Maybe he could spawn more often and again, offer a lower amount of organics as a result?

[Glyph]

Llexa, my views on this subject are hard to classify as "black and white" as I can see some logic in both the way things are done now, as well as, room for an improved system. But, here is why I came to my conclusions and optional scenarios:

Yes, technically, anyone can use organics. Anyone. But, have you ever gone DNA hunting with little to no luck gear (and by little I mean less than EX dollar enhanced luck). Electra has posted some pretty definitve numbers that show the horrid success/failure rates involved, not to mention the sheer costs involved. Now, again, if players still want to pursue creating their own BIOs before they have enhanced luck, more power to them. That is their right, and I have no problem with that either. But, if a new player is keeping their own organics that they farm from the giant rats in the newbie area, combined with the amount of failures they WILL incur, where will they get the gold to supplement their supply of quickly dwindling organics since they are keeping the ones they harvest? I mean, to say that all should have access to any given resource is a completely fair assessment, but in reality, what can a newbie do with the organics other than sell them or horde them for months until they get all of the other gear needed to make DNA hunting viable.

As far as the system being designed to give new players a source of quick income, hey, I am all for that. Nothing sucks worse than getting started on a new shard and all the good gear (and even some average gear) is too pricey. Mis-management of starting funds is common as players on custom shards don't know what is good versus over rated. I oft times see cries in WC from new players that can't afford some of the things we, as vets, take for granted because of our deep pockets. It is extremely easy for a new player to "bite off more than they can chew". The first thing most players want to do on a new custom server is explore to see what is changed. Many of our areas will smack them around and they can wipe out a lot of newbie gold quickly in insurance costs. (note: thank god we have so many nice players to help out when newbs get in over their heads!)

But, why not just make the giant rats drop 100-200 gold or so or what ever? If the system was designed to provide them instant gold, why not just give them gold instead and take out the other issues that revolve around the organics. (and the original pricing on said organics was much lower than current market values which leads me to believe that in the past, newbies didn't actually make that much gold from selling organics, so even if it is a gold source now, it wasn't in the past until greed took over).

All I am saying is that the current system allows for more problems than the off setting positives. We could swap the organics out with skill balls that could then be sold to vets. Lord knows I would pay for a few specific skill balls! Or stat balls since the 1 stat every 15 minutes makes my teeth grind. There, they still make gold, interact with the community through commerce and vets don't have to exploit new players or create alts in order to get their "precious" organics.

[Electra]

Wow this subject got alot of attention:) I really started this post not to take away from the new players getting organics but to suggest there be some hard places veterans could go to get bulk organics from doing a really hard challenge. I really dont mind how hard or expensive they are cuz i have alot of time and tons of gold. I just hate being taken advantage of and having to beg players that have no clue what I have to go through to get 50000 organics! I am interrupted every 10 min with a new player offering to sell 39 organics, 22 organics, 200 organics etc and gets tedious. I dont mind filling an occasional BOD set but with 120 tame and all the animal locations marked from doing this process 100s of times its just boring work...

I have made 12 bios for myself and many more for my friends and guild mates...so again im not complaining I just want a source i can get organics so I can experiment a little by trying to get "super dna" from some ultra hard mobs that normally i cant take a chance on because the dna might take me 100 vials to sample 1 time! (100 vials=100,000k of organics! just for 1 sample or 10 million gold!) Also, say I did get the sample of mimic dna off a hard mob, there is no guarantee that you get a special attack or a counter skill because it is determined randomly! (now repeat this process til u get it)

Each time I make a bio I learn new information about skills, attacks and best dna combos, but the system is set up for me to be chicken and play it safe by getting lame dna I know I can get...Id love to get enough bulk organics to go to the next level and get some really cool mimic dna and have a chance at getting specials!

FYI i have 4000 luck now which costs 120 million dollars and I fail 90% of the time on hard mob dna collection, so im not sure how hard this was intended to be(or how an average player could ever be successful at dna collection with no luck)but its crazy hard:) All that I know for sure is that its an expensive hobby!

Ok back to begging for some new places to collect organics:)

Make a really hard spawn that drops organics with at least a daily random timer (none of this 5 day wait stuff)
Make a hard monster like Paroxsymus or the Ice wyrm drop organics
Add organics to the Tokuno champ spawns, this would give us a reason to do them
Make a quest that drops organics - use rat quest template and replace the rats with the Dark Fathers (Fun!)
Make organics on an island you have to take a boat to get to it
Put small amounts of organics on monsters in the lost lands
Make a hard bod that is a sure thing for dropping organics

Ok I think that clears up my original request:)

[Tael]

Make a really hard spawn that drops organics with at least a daily random timer (none of this 5 day wait stuff)
Make a hard monster like Paroxsymus or the Ice wyrm drop organics
Add organics to the Tokuno champ spawns, this would give us a reason to do them
Make a quest that drops organics - use rat quest template and replace the rats with the Dark Fathers (Fun!)
Make organics on an island you have to take a boat to get to it
Put small amounts of organics on monsters in the lost lands
Make a hard bod that is a sure thing for dropping organics

It seems to me that the current problem was created by forcing a bottle-neck to control the supply of organics. Changing this system to establish a different bottle-neck is likely to merely create new and different problems as people try to find a way around the limitation. That's why I think the best idea is to not bottle-neck the supply of organics, but diffuse it...

Just give every mob a 20% chance to drop 1-5 organics. This favors the newbies, who tend to hunt larger quantities of easier mobs (ie, at Despise I and II or in the woods---or for that matter, in the Newbie Dungeon). I've seen this work on other shards, but don't expect prices for organics to drop too much. 80-120 each is what I've seen before, and the economy here is richer than most I've experienced. After all, bios are the ultimate luxury item and intended to act as a gold sink.

[Glyph]

It seems to me that the current problem was created by forcing a bottle-neck to control the supply of organics. Changing this system to establish a different bottle-neck is likely to merely create new and different problems as people try to find a way around the limitation. That's why I think the best idea is to not bottle-neck the supply of organics, but diffuse it...

Just give every mob a 20% chance to drop 1-5 organics. This favors the newbies, who tend to hunt larger quantities of easier mobs (ie, at Despise I and II or in the woods---or for that matter, in the Newbie Dungeon). I've seen this work on other shards, but don't expect prices for organics to drop too much. 80-120 each is what I've seen before, and the economy here is richer than most I've experienced. After all, bios are the ultimate luxury item and intended to act as a gold sink.

I like this idea! Well, as long as we can get the [claim command to auto loot the organics (not sure if they do now or not as I don't actively hunt for them).

Excellent solution!

[Undertaker]

ok tael... my post was intended to Stop the newbie organics all together, an replace it with something useful such as some skill elixers, etc (assuming you read my post) ... but all these other suggestions to put em on mobs else where, like making the lost lands a more useful place to hunt an not just an empty land... i wouldnt go with so much on putting them on champs, in my opnion id perfer to leave them as they are, an on a side comment on that, i wish they could fix the blood clan champ...

but moving on, why are newbies so darn demanding on overly high priced organic (just one each)... money is a greedy thing, i would know ... i used to average my bank balance from 70+ million gold... but after giving it away, im no more richer then anyone here, i betcha these newbs making bank from their masters are more then likely richer then me...

my bottom line point is: taking out the organics from the n00b dungeon isnt a "bottleneck" (whatever you called it), these vets need to go, erm, by need, i mean want to harvest them in a fun hard fashion way, such as the previous posts stated... making gold aint that hard, n00b!3s dont need to be milking the system, for lack of a better word (exploiting)... spreading the organics throughout the lands (fel, tram, ish, lost lands, malas), or having some drop off the ice wyrm, etc, spawns like that is not a bad idea...

and the communication, an social stuff will still be there, infact i myself would actully take some role in that, but as of now i refuse to take part in any communication/socialism with the n00b!3s that are taking advantage of the organic system and selling them at a price that is ... retarded? (can i use that word?).. and spending a week in the sewers killing rats to get 1 whole vial is just .... not right... the system we got now is forcing the prices to go up, the main source is the n00b!3 dungeon, and abomination (which is ... never up... and not to blame anyone on that)...

so speaking outloud- if this were to all take place, organics thru'out the lands of uo, no more organics in newb dungeon (unless its balanced and not making 12k orgs a day from a single player, then im ok with that) the prices of organics will drop drastically, and i will begin selling my stash at a nice lowered price, maybe keeping it at 20 per, i wouldnt mind 10 per... but i hope you all get my point...

and any new player that is not apart of this scam, hey lemme know what i can do to help your stay at excelsior



haha, didnt mean to bold half my post

[Rune]

hmm i have to agree with mr UT ..the prices on organics is ugly no matter how you twist and turn it
sure some will say (like poster above) it sucks to be new and cant afford good armor..HELLO its called being NEW aka YOU just started
from my experience (my own and seeing others) ppl that are handfed while young in any game leave fast because they get bored or angry when they find out they dont get everything on a silver plate

FREAKING WAKE UP..being young means you have to struggle a bit for that shiny armor you saw for sale
and yes its possible to get your mini goals done without taking advantage of older players with organics pricing

myself..hm i think i spend like 20 mins in noob dungeon then decided to go about gaining skills and gold like on osi

[Raven197]

How about something as simple as making organics something as simple as a rare drop while gathering resources, the frequency of which is slightly affected by item I'd. Maybe make it so that the rare drops from resources that give organics only happens in fellucca. Or better yet, in the lost lands.Make a deed that is purchasable with tokens/gold/we that adds a property to a resource tool that allows for a certain amount of harvests or something. Then ppl who are willing to dedicate the time and the money for the deed can squire the reource, then u just have to tinker with drop rate to maintain balance.

I do agree they need to be taken out of new player spawn though. And I am still a new player LOL

[E'Walker]

I know jack about bio creatures and even less about the bigger mobs, but something I did learn as a noob (first shard) is if you get a group of people and take something big out it seems more rewarding then going solo. Maybe bio's are so expensive because they are to be that rare just like items in the game. So if you think the price of organics is to high then try grouping your clan and going tou to kill something. If it takes a bio then take a friend or two to help out. I'm just saying there seems to be a lot of "soloing" and not enough groups. I try to holler on chat each time so others can enjoy the rewards as well. With all that said I cant see ANYTHING costing so much gear or bio alike. I think if your going to dorp the price on things make it gobal. Heck way not that way everyone can have the best of the best and there will be no different from each other but the color of our armor and weapons. Any way have fun group a friend and enjoy the game it is just a game after all. Happy hunting.

[Electra]

LOL I have the largest most organized group of players on the shard (EE Guild) I plan daily hunts as a group and show each player how to defeat champs and peerless bosses as a group and then solo:) Bio pets have nothing to do with not working with a group?? I have 20 invites a day to go hunting from players begging me to help them with my bio (My favorite questions is please, please, please can I borrow your bio!) Anyway gathering organics, sampling dna and working on bio pets for my guildmates brings us together as a group. It is rewarding to take down a boss as a group, but you should see what it feels like to actually solo a tough creature all by yourself! Its pretty exciting!

[Undertaker]

If it takes a bio then take a friend or two to help out. I'm just saying there seems to be a lot of "soloing" and not enough groups.

lol, my friend... your seem unsure about what your saying... u ever solo some of the hardest things in this game? such as ice wrym, paroxymus? etc. ice wyrm alone does roughly 2700 atleast with its ice breath PER HIT... im not gonna tell you what the other spawns do, and theres not a group of ppl i dont know of that actully go Alone to solo these beasts... a bio is the one keeping everyone alive (most of the time anyways)... and not all the time its successful against these beasts, me an my friends die many times in the past, but with experience, not so much death has occured

[E'Walker]

Will like I said at the first of my post I DONT KNOW JACK about that stuff. Last night a friend invinted me in the party to go and kill the ice wyrm. (I got a spike=)). I'm glad you guys are talking about this. I have a nother point to make. Maybe it cost so much to make a bio beacuse you can get so much with a bio. Lets do a little pesdo math. Say it cost you 15 mil to make a bio. With this bio you are able to complete the quest for the lvl 70 artifacts. You sell said artifact for hmm 12 mill. You complete the quest again and sell it again 12 mil. You complete the quest and sell the said artifact again. You see what I"m saying. The bio is like any other pet. I was not making jack till I got my nobles and now I avg 3-5 mil on my days off when I can play. The bigger the pet the bigger the profit. The have to regulate the gold some how. So I'm sorry I'm not seeing a problem here. You say it takes a long time to make one that to could be a way of regulating the production of the pets. I'm just saying sorry I dont see a problem am I missing something ?? Any way happy hunting and have fun it is just a game you know.

[Undertaker]

i caught the first post about you not knowing JACK ABOUT ANYTHING ... so therefor, doesnt it work something like "if you dont know anything about it, why try to fix it?" all your doin in a way is stirring the pot, an that isnt really necessary E'Walker.. an for anyone else that doesnt see a prob with this... as most of these people that post DO see a prob... and by getting a 70 arty an selling it for 12 mil, you deserve that 12 mil if Only you knew what it took to obtain organics, and the TIME it takes to obtain a lvl 70 arty... now if theres someone out there that can do this quest in a week, you have too much uo time on your hands lol... cuz this is an average 3-4 weeks for me to get one, an half way thru i always get busy with work or somethin, an end up not finishing the quest... so really, i think your missing the "effort" thats put in to obtain one of these artys...

and this topic isnt about making 12 million gold per piece, its about taking the organics OUT of the newbie dungeon due to vets (or non vets, anyone over 21 days) of taking or "contracting" newbs to farm organics, if you knew how many organics come out of that dungeon everyday... coming from a vet like myself, and the very few places organics spawn, an how little they drop... its sad, an sick...

and unless i missed the point of this whole topic, were simply asking to stop the organics from newb dungeon, an placing the orgs on something that we the ppl over 21 days can go out and hunt, or quest, or some kind of "hard" place that takes effort to get them... nothing compared to the newbie dungeon... thats where im getting at, an hopefully the wonderful/busy admins can think of a good way to balance this problem out...

p.s. newbies arent entitled to making millions by standing in a spot claiming ([claimall) all days end, they need to work up skills, etc, an start out like the rest of us. like we did, Befor all this was put in... thats what i believe ... it builds character, friendlyness, especially when one needs help... but if newbs are millionaires, an already own a bio in under 21 days(which btw is already happening)... thats not friendly, i see something else...


btw, we all understand it is just a game, but when theres an imbalance in something, its not that fun to enjoy a game, and im not sure if i can speak for anyone else, but at the end of a long day, an u get on uo, it takes that long day an throws it out the window, an u have a good time with your friends, guild hunts, etc...

[Tribecca]

The smart newbies save the organics for themselves.

[Kaervas]

The smart newbies save the organics for themselves.

While this only applies if you intend to get a bio pet quickly, it is so true, and I wish I had done this.
I sold/traded most of my organics, and only kept around 20k for myself. This was not enough to get a perfectly statted pet (after failing 13 times on obtaining a specific mimic DNA - none of these were broken vials, they all lacked the counter I wanted, let alone the correct special attack too). It wasn't me doing the crafting either, but two far more experienced (and geared) bio-engineers than I.
Not to mention one of the aforementioned bio-engineers is currently indisposed with a significant portion of my completed DNA vials, so I'll live without a bio for a while longer

If I had kept every single organic with the intent on using them to get DNA, I should have been able to obtain the DNA for a perfect bio pet for sure, and have a decent chunk of other DNA that I didn't need (correct counter/different special) and could sell or save for a second bio somewhere down the line.