When I speak of words like everyone I mean not to use absolutes Amadman. When someone does others who may not agree with this might also read and think they are being accused of being greedy or something else regardless of the actual intent. Also Stanley Cleaner I do not take it personal, I pointed out that I do not fall under a stated set therefore stating things in absolute terms is a bad idea.
As for not having time to mine, again I have time to but do not want to spend all my time doing so or having the time already spent wasted. As for your example that is something for limited use, not a group of things that are required for almost all crafting. Unless you want to buy the resources which you shouldn't need to do and I rarely saw any for sale you do need to do it yourself.
Changes to Mining/Lumberjacking veins
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Kile Morgan
- Elder Scribe
- Posts: 126
- Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:36 pm
Re: Changes to Mining/Lumberjacking veins
On the record, I was merely joking in regards to adding monsters to the mining system. 
Therefore, if you do notice a monster spawn (and you are not using a runic tool) then it will probably be the Cookie Monster, so do not fear.
+Rayne
Therefore, if you do notice a monster spawn (and you are not using a runic tool) then it will probably be the Cookie Monster, so do not fear.
+Rayne
[Administrator of Excelsior]
I'll look to like, if looking liking move:
But no more deep will I endart mine eye
Than your consent to give strength to make it fly.
Re: Changes to Mining/Lumberjacking veins
Haha Rayne, i'd love to see a cookie monster.
Re: Changes to Mining/Lumberjacking veins
Now that brings to mind an opportunity for some interesting changes: a revamped cooking system with elaborate recipes for magical food -- stuff that can raise skills and such for an hour or two at a time. You could even have a cookie monster that drops a runic rolling pin ... :)
Re: Changes to Mining/Lumberjacking veins
Ruewyn wrote:Haha Rayne, i'd love to see a cookie monster.
RAWR! Or would it more appropriately be, OMNOMNOMNOMNOM.
+Rayne
[Administrator of Excelsior]
I'll look to like, if looking liking move:
But no more deep will I endart mine eye
Than your consent to give strength to make it fly.
Re: Changes to Mining/Lumberjacking veins
don't fix what isn't broken. :) but thanks for asking for my opion. i guess that's the difference between a great shard and a dying one.
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Undertaker
- Legendary Scribe
- Posts: 418
- Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 12:02 pm
Re: Changes to Mining/Lumberjacking veins
so basically this poll... hmm... it is late for me, after a 15 hr work day... this poll is ment to change the way the mine/lj drop resources... hmm... an basically all the endless hours the 3 admins took to create the way it is now, someone is upset an wants to take a vote to "forget" how much labor it took making this shard, to change it? and was this poll even validated by colibri? if yes, shouldnt he have posted this poll? one of those "offical" things that admins to make a change like this, that wasnt ment to Be changed, becuz its sweet the way it is?
just correct me if im wrong ;)
p.s. not to mention the fantastic work of labor is still on going ontop of our daily lives...
just correct me if im wrong ;)
p.s. not to mention the fantastic work of labor is still on going ontop of our daily lives...
Re: Changes to Mining/Lumberjacking veins
Hiya UT,
15 hours! Thats good and bad. Money but no time.
Actually this post and poll was started by Colibri. This is his idea that he was planning on implementing.
Also i believe that the mining portion of the script has not been modified here(That is why Colibri believes people can find the mining spots using the original code). So there really would be no lost/wasted time other than the programing time to make the improvements.
I agree that it is 'sweet' the way it is. Maybe just a little to sweet. I think that is the reason that Colibri will have a hard time getting people to accept this.
15 hours! Thats good and bad. Money but no time.
Actually this post and poll was started by Colibri. This is his idea that he was planning on implementing.
Also i believe that the mining portion of the script has not been modified here(That is why Colibri believes people can find the mining spots using the original code). So there really would be no lost/wasted time other than the programing time to make the improvements.
I agree that it is 'sweet' the way it is. Maybe just a little to sweet. I think that is the reason that Colibri will have a hard time getting people to accept this.
Re: Changes to Mining/Lumberjacking veins
[quote="amadman"]I agree that it is 'sweet' the way it is. Maybe just a little to sweet. I think that is the reason that Colibri will have a hard time getting people to accept this.[/quote]
Actually, random ore spots will be a tough sell because there's no problem to solve, and no clear benefit to giving up control over mining. Mining would remain soul-suckingly boring, but you'd have the added annoyance of having to hunt over and over for the particular ore you want. So put "giving up control" in the debit column. What goes in the asset column? That's what confuses the professional miners most, I think.
I'd also like to know how mining can be considered "a little too sweet" when there's such a high demand for iron ingots. Fact is, most people would rather play than mine -- and yes, that distinction exists in the minds of most people, including me, who mines all the time. Why is this? Because mining is boring. Adding annoyances like random ore won't help.
Of the ideas mentioned in this thread, I'm interested in seeing value added to more of the different ore colors. Special craftables using electrum, blaze, etc. Now that would make mining more fun, because there would finally be demand for ingots other than plat and iron.
Actually, random ore spots will be a tough sell because there's no problem to solve, and no clear benefit to giving up control over mining. Mining would remain soul-suckingly boring, but you'd have the added annoyance of having to hunt over and over for the particular ore you want. So put "giving up control" in the debit column. What goes in the asset column? That's what confuses the professional miners most, I think.
I'd also like to know how mining can be considered "a little too sweet" when there's such a high demand for iron ingots. Fact is, most people would rather play than mine -- and yes, that distinction exists in the minds of most people, including me, who mines all the time. Why is this? Because mining is boring. Adding annoyances like random ore won't help.
Of the ideas mentioned in this thread, I'm interested in seeing value added to more of the different ore colors. Special craftables using electrum, blaze, etc. Now that would make mining more fun, because there would finally be demand for ingots other than plat and iron.
Re: Changes to Mining/Lumberjacking veins
"..and no clear benefit to giving up control over mining."
Control over mining. Interesting choice of words but it works :). But how are things going to go as the shard grows and more and more people get control over mining?
With the proposed changes you would still be able to get that control. However... it would require effort to maintain that control. This way you do not have an ever growing number of people who have never ending control over mining. (asset?)
'.. when there's such a high demand for iron ingots.'
The proposed changes could very well increase the supply of iron ingots since people would be getting them while plotting new mining locations. (asset?)
'Fact is, most people would rather play than mine -- and yes, that distinction exists in the minds of most people, including me, who mines all the time. '
The fact is that mining is playing the game. And the proposed changes would give that part of the game more substance. By making it like real life where veins run out and by utilizing the other wise unused forensics skill (asset?)
'Adding annoyances like random ore won't help.'
The proposed changes are not exactly random ore. They are veins that have 500 of the specific ore in them. That specific 500 ore has to be mined out before the vein changes. So a platinum spot has to have 500 platinum ore pulled out before it changes. The iron ore you get while mining for the 500 platinum does not count towards this total. So this mining spot could be around for some time if it is not well known. Or at least provide someone with a good amount of platinum before it is gone.
So people will still be able to mine known spots for platinum(or electrum spots with a garg pickaxe or prospector tool). But those spots will have a limited supply and will have to be replaced at some point. A professional miner would have to manage this to keep their operation running smoothly.
'I'm interested in seeing value added to more of the different ore colors. Special craftables using electrum, blaze, etc.'
This also could be considered an asset to the proposed changes because it would make it possible to allow this.
Control over mining. Interesting choice of words but it works :). But how are things going to go as the shard grows and more and more people get control over mining?
With the proposed changes you would still be able to get that control. However... it would require effort to maintain that control. This way you do not have an ever growing number of people who have never ending control over mining. (asset?)
'.. when there's such a high demand for iron ingots.'
The proposed changes could very well increase the supply of iron ingots since people would be getting them while plotting new mining locations. (asset?)
'Fact is, most people would rather play than mine -- and yes, that distinction exists in the minds of most people, including me, who mines all the time. '
The fact is that mining is playing the game. And the proposed changes would give that part of the game more substance. By making it like real life where veins run out and by utilizing the other wise unused forensics skill (asset?)
'Adding annoyances like random ore won't help.'
The proposed changes are not exactly random ore. They are veins that have 500 of the specific ore in them. That specific 500 ore has to be mined out before the vein changes. So a platinum spot has to have 500 platinum ore pulled out before it changes. The iron ore you get while mining for the 500 platinum does not count towards this total. So this mining spot could be around for some time if it is not well known. Or at least provide someone with a good amount of platinum before it is gone.
So people will still be able to mine known spots for platinum(or electrum spots with a garg pickaxe or prospector tool). But those spots will have a limited supply and will have to be replaced at some point. A professional miner would have to manage this to keep their operation running smoothly.
'I'm interested in seeing value added to more of the different ore colors. Special craftables using electrum, blaze, etc.'
This also could be considered an asset to the proposed changes because it would make it possible to allow this.
Re: Changes to Mining/Lumberjacking veins
I know this isn't a popular opinion, but I personally prefer the idea of completely random spawns at all times. Once a node is drained, it respawns as something else.
Most older players will not like this idea because they spent a lot of time on runebooks marking each rune. However, as a new player to a shard, it is very difficult to break into gathering when you have people recalling around the world picking up all the good stuff and leaving the lesser nodes for the players with no idea.
If you make spawns completely random, it will encourage strip mining and will allow people to just plant in one area and work it instead of recalling around the world hitting a couple spots here and there.
It would also most likely increase the difficulty of completing BOD's since you couldn't focus on specific ores.
Basically, for someone who likes mining and doesn't have the competitive edge of being a veteran, these changes would be awesome. As a veteran with a lot of time spent marking ores, it wouldn't be so cool.
As a side note, I also think the tiling should be changed to 1 by 1. Just makes it easier to work on one mine, and allows smaller mines to support more players. The respawn on this shard is pretty good already, but this would be neat too and the only advantage would be to people that enjoy mining and just like to do it for fun.
Most older players will not like this idea because they spent a lot of time on runebooks marking each rune. However, as a new player to a shard, it is very difficult to break into gathering when you have people recalling around the world picking up all the good stuff and leaving the lesser nodes for the players with no idea.
If you make spawns completely random, it will encourage strip mining and will allow people to just plant in one area and work it instead of recalling around the world hitting a couple spots here and there.
It would also most likely increase the difficulty of completing BOD's since you couldn't focus on specific ores.
Basically, for someone who likes mining and doesn't have the competitive edge of being a veteran, these changes would be awesome. As a veteran with a lot of time spent marking ores, it wouldn't be so cool.
As a side note, I also think the tiling should be changed to 1 by 1. Just makes it easier to work on one mine, and allows smaller mines to support more players. The respawn on this shard is pretty good already, but this would be neat too and the only advantage would be to people that enjoy mining and just like to do it for fun.
Re: Changes to Mining/Lumberjacking veins
I think Pocketcow's opinion is similar to when poor people want wealth "redistributed". Looks awesome from their side, but what about the ones who have worked hard?
As you might guess, I too worked hard on runebooks. I did this when I wasn't even close to being a vet (so being a vet has hardly anything to do with the subject), copying books from the rune library and scouting for plat spots.
As you might guess, I too worked hard on runebooks. I did this when I wasn't even close to being a vet (so being a vet has hardly anything to do with the subject), copying books from the rune library and scouting for plat spots.
Re: Changes to Mining/Lumberjacking veins
Even though I like the proposed changes I can not agree with Pocketcow on the idea of complete random ore. I believe that ploting and mining known spots is a legitimate form of mining and don't see a reason to eliminate that type of mining.
But I dont think the proposed changes will eliminate any type of mining. People will still be able to strip mine and spot mine.
The changes could help level the playing field for the new player however. As the vets would have to keep up with their mining locations or be over taken by the more ambitious new comer.
As for rune books... Its not as bad as some seem to think though they would become more time sensitive. A person could add spots as they find them and pull out runes when they find they are empty. No doubt though that public rune libraries would take a devastating hit. Someone may still be able to pull one off but it would take alot more work and be pretty counter productive as more people going would make the spots empty faster. A private library for a guild or mining company however could still be extremely beneficial.
But I dont think the proposed changes will eliminate any type of mining. People will still be able to strip mine and spot mine.
The changes could help level the playing field for the new player however. As the vets would have to keep up with their mining locations or be over taken by the more ambitious new comer.
As for rune books... Its not as bad as some seem to think though they would become more time sensitive. A person could add spots as they find them and pull out runes when they find they are empty. No doubt though that public rune libraries would take a devastating hit. Someone may still be able to pull one off but it would take alot more work and be pretty counter productive as more people going would make the spots empty faster. A private library for a guild or mining company however could still be extremely beneficial.
Re: Changes to Mining/Lumberjacking veins
Quotes are broken again, but this is mostly addressed to pocketcow.
If you're mining "the good stuff," how new a player are you? If you're really a newbie, the hottest ingot commodity by far is iron, and random ore won't affect the high frequency of iron. If you're really a newbie, you'll gain skill in mining by digging color ore of adequate difficulty, but with random ore the gain spots you find will change. So random ore wouldn't be any better for newbies. If you have 120 mining, you can spend a few days marking some ore spots, and then you'll be as well off as anyone else. I never imagined this was such a burden that it would call for a far-reaching change over the entire resource system. (Amadman, take note of this as well.)
Amusingly, I've contemplated making a mining rail for iron only, since I do waste a lot of time digging up color ore that no one wants to buy -- in fact I make my shovels out of color ingots -- but I can still say that I have no selfish reasons for resisting the idea of random ore. I'll still produce lots of ingots because all it takes is time, and I find mining in the background relaxing. If the ore changes under my shovel, I won't likely even notice; it's all a game of percentages one way or another. My reasons for wanting to preserve the current tradition of mining are mostly aesthetic, but I've already remarked on that. And I'm pretty sure that I'm more realistically concerned for the newbie than those crying for a "level playing field," since I'm trying to defend the experience of mining as a whole.
So I'm keeping up this discussion not out of personal, vested interest, but because I think that some good reasons should underlie a big change like this one. And I'm not hearing any.
@amadman: I would certainly not waste my time marking an ore spot that would change. That's not even close to the smart thing to do with random ore. So you are wrong when you say that random ore wouldn't eliminate any type of mining. It would eliminate traditional mining. It would be as much fun as hunting a balron and then oops, it just became an imp. Or why not just strike people dead randomly at the bank?
I think you've not considered what removing control from an activity, rendering it unrealistic and arbitrary, might also remove from the satisfaction of doing it.
If you're mining "the good stuff," how new a player are you? If you're really a newbie, the hottest ingot commodity by far is iron, and random ore won't affect the high frequency of iron. If you're really a newbie, you'll gain skill in mining by digging color ore of adequate difficulty, but with random ore the gain spots you find will change. So random ore wouldn't be any better for newbies. If you have 120 mining, you can spend a few days marking some ore spots, and then you'll be as well off as anyone else. I never imagined this was such a burden that it would call for a far-reaching change over the entire resource system. (Amadman, take note of this as well.)
Amusingly, I've contemplated making a mining rail for iron only, since I do waste a lot of time digging up color ore that no one wants to buy -- in fact I make my shovels out of color ingots -- but I can still say that I have no selfish reasons for resisting the idea of random ore. I'll still produce lots of ingots because all it takes is time, and I find mining in the background relaxing. If the ore changes under my shovel, I won't likely even notice; it's all a game of percentages one way or another. My reasons for wanting to preserve the current tradition of mining are mostly aesthetic, but I've already remarked on that. And I'm pretty sure that I'm more realistically concerned for the newbie than those crying for a "level playing field," since I'm trying to defend the experience of mining as a whole.
So I'm keeping up this discussion not out of personal, vested interest, but because I think that some good reasons should underlie a big change like this one. And I'm not hearing any.
@amadman: I would certainly not waste my time marking an ore spot that would change. That's not even close to the smart thing to do with random ore. So you are wrong when you say that random ore wouldn't eliminate any type of mining. It would eliminate traditional mining. It would be as much fun as hunting a balron and then oops, it just became an imp. Or why not just strike people dead randomly at the bank?
I think you've not considered what removing control from an activity, rendering it unrealistic and arbitrary, might also remove from the satisfaction of doing it.
Re: Changes to Mining/Lumberjacking veins
Tael - I believe we are both passionate about the mining experience but we are just see this at different angles.
If you see my early posts in this thread I apposed these changes as well. The vote i made is even against these changes.
But after reading colibri's later post and thinking about it for awhile it actually started sounding good.
You say you have not seen any reason to change.
Well I see incorporating the forensics skill as being a strong reason to make the change. I envision finding a platinum spot while strip mining in a far away mine. Checking the scene i learn that there is an abundance of ore in this vein that has never been mined. Yes... I mark this spot in a rune book because i can expect some platinum to be here for some time. I continue strip mining or I can make a run through my current mining locations to get specific ore.
Nothing is lost other than permanent mining locations. And the mining experience is enriched with the addition of a new skill.
If you see my early posts in this thread I apposed these changes as well. The vote i made is even against these changes.
But after reading colibri's later post and thinking about it for awhile it actually started sounding good.
You say you have not seen any reason to change.
Well I see incorporating the forensics skill as being a strong reason to make the change. I envision finding a platinum spot while strip mining in a far away mine. Checking the scene i learn that there is an abundance of ore in this vein that has never been mined. Yes... I mark this spot in a rune book because i can expect some platinum to be here for some time. I continue strip mining or I can make a run through my current mining locations to get specific ore.
Nothing is lost other than permanent mining locations. And the mining experience is enriched with the addition of a new skill.