Hey Look a Skinning Knife of Water Elemental Slaying.

[Danilo Thann]

You bet yer butt I kept it. But a lot of People wouldn't even check the stats on a skinning knife if it was loot. This is fine because of the simple logic of: "To each their own," but to get to a good point... and the real reason I posted on this section of the Forums.

Their are many things in UO that have lost their value... and some of them will stay that way, but why should all of them have to?

1)Certain ores/woods/leathers/reagents <---(because you can buy them from a stone using gold, and no longer care about picking them up) .
2) Certain Items ( I.E. Skinning Knife's of Water Elemental Slaying, or the good old ID Wands)
3) Certain Treasure Maps (primarily because the treasure seems under rated)
4) Certain tamable pets (with the addition of Taming BOD's this point takes a hit, but how many tamers are using a pack of wolves to do their hunting these days... Ponders)
5) Certain Skills (Item Identification, Taste Identification, Herding, and Forensic Evaluation to name a few)

The point is this list could go on and on, and for different people it would be different items listed.

My idea, if not demand --- because the Ex shard is the best experience I've ever had online--- is that these misfits should be looked at and revamped, so that their purpose is clearly visible to a newbie.

1a) Should lesser ore's/wood's/leathers be given better value's towards crafting... I say no. By THEMSELVES they are powerful enough as it is.
1b) My ideal solution would be: quest gives requiring certain, Massive amounts of all types of ores, for more shard favorable rewards, and if possible a new system that allows the crafting of items that require two or more materials to make higher quality items. (though items that aren't god like)
1c) What would happen to item enhancement, simply put it would become more controllable in that, Like weapon Leveling, a player would be able to choose, to a lesser degree, the properties being enhanced.
1d) With concerns to reagents: new spells, new potions, new items that require a reagent as one of its ingredients to make... just not a recipe... (Perhaps making a pie that you poured a few greater strength potions into the batter and when eaten gave you plus 10 strength for a longer duration of time)

Now I mentioned 4 other topics, and yes I have more ideas... but I want to give only a small taste and see what Colibri as well as rest of the populous thinks before I bore you with the details in a 5 page review.

So tell me what you think... and feel free to add your own idea's... please add idea's... it will only make Ex Shard that much more fun for everyone.

P.S. Before you cringe Colibri, with concerns to new spells, I was thinking more along the lines of spells that mimicked an older spell in function but had a different variable... For instance Energy Bolt would have a cousin named Frost Bolt, and Magic Arrow might have a friend called Acid Arrow... SO that the new spells would function the same but be based off of a different element type then the orginal and of course have a different look to them... That's my two cents for the day.

[Pocketcow]

I understand what you're trying to say here, but it will never work. First of all, things like reagent stones are there to make life easier. They aren't free and if you feel like camping about ten mage shops for a couple hours, you can get even more regs at a lower price. This feature is simply about convenience.

The problem with your idea(not saying it's bad or anything) is that this is a game and the object of a game is to have fun by being able to do whatever it is that you like, easily and efficiently. That means getting the most powerful gear(or whatever else there is) and using it to do whatever you like doing.

There will always be lesser items and people will always avoid them because of that. You can't ever get rid of that unless you make every item the same, in which case it would be really boring.

Lesser items actually do serve a purpose, if not a very meaningful or long lived one. Lower quality equipment is cheaper because the demand for it is low and also is usually easier to get/make. This allows new players that don't have much gold to buy these sub-par items as they work their way up the food chain.

As far as pets are concerned, they are almost all the same with a few exceptions. Anything you can tame can be bred to be maxed out. You can buy maxed out rabbits in TC for 100k or so. The only animals that are weak, are the ones that take more than one slot because they have the same stat cap as the single slot pets. If anything, the stat ceiling for multi slot animals should just be multiplied by the slots it takes up to make it more even.

I do agree with you that any wood/ore/leather that isn't of the top tier is generally worthless. (exception being BOD's) This is something that actually could be fixed and there was another thread posted detailing ideas of what would make them more attractive.

The treasure map issue basically goes along with what I said about item quality above. It's only trash because you think it's trash compared to what you think you should be using. If you were naked and had no money, I'm sure you'd be using some of the loot that dropped from a lesser treasure map. Now that you have better gear, you don't want the lesser tmap loot and have now graduated to the higher level ones.

As far as skills are concerned, there would need to be scripts or something added to the shard to give them functionality above and beyond their normal use.

Sorry for writing a book, but these are common complaints with this game and they would take a bunch of scripting to fix.

[Undertaker]

not bad on the ideas, i do have a comment on the spells tho, have you ever seen a shard with additional spell cousins? i never have... prolly cuz of the pain of scripting, an not only that, scripting doesnt mean "making something, an its good" theres alot of bugs to be worked out, as staff have mentioned befor, whenever something new comes out, its not flawless, it takes alot of work

as far as the regs, yes 5k for each reg is expensive, but like Pocketcow mentioned, if you camp out all the reg shops for afew hours. you can gain alot of regs for a cheaper rate... but most people have 100% LRC like i do, an the reg stone is very convenient for me to buy to make more kegs for my bees, i dont have time to spend hours raiding all the mage shops, now if they all had a stock of 999 already, that would be nice, but inaccorance of the script, that cannot be done...

and Colibri had done the 2 biggest implements on the shard, now he has like what, a few hundred little ones to work on?

[Danilo Thann]

I disagree with You Pocketcow 1000%. A game is not about getting the best gear, or skills, or tame able pets easily. It is about having fun, and possibly for you that means easy mode. I know I'm right about this, with concerns to UOEX shard, because all the monsters in the game aren't as easy as a mongbat to kill. Furthermore, when you logged into the game the first time all your skills weren't 120 and maxed. Everything you could possibly obtain wasn't in your bank box waiting for you either.
But then there is a line that is close to being crossed concerning easy mode, in my opinion, and that's the Tamer as it stands right now. I shouldn't be forced to make a tamer and I should still be able to kill all the wonderful monsters said tamers can crush as a non-tamer, using other skills. Which is what I'm trying to get rolling here, lets stack another couple classes, so to speak. Okay...

If +Colibri can change the way mining nodes and woodcutter nodes work... then im sure he can change the hue on a fire ball so i looks like an ice ball. I'm sure he can make said Skinning Knife of Elemental Slaying more valuable to an NPC vendor, more gold for it if you sell it to a certain NPC... like a Mage. These examples are examples... I am already wealthy in the game, I'm just sick of seeing the same low end stuff in locked chests, and on monsters kills... all I ever seem to get is womens armors or undergarments... *frowns* I want my adventuring to be fun, and not find myself bickering about the same loot thats dropped for the last week.

[Pocketcow]

Danilo, you are saying you disagree with me 1000%???? That doesn't make any sense. I'm not arguing a point of view. I'm telling you why things are the way they are.

There has to be low end items and there has to be high end items.(or everything would be the same) You will always perceive items that are less than what you are using to be weak and you will always perceive items that are better than what you're using to be strong. Weak items are going to be cheaper and more common as people throw them away or give them away. Strong items will be more rare because players will hoard them and sell them at a higher price. The fact that the drop rate of strong items is low also makes this more pronounced.

This is why I stated that if you were butt naked and opened a chest with plain old armor in it with no magical bonuses, you would put it on. If you already had nice armor like you do now,(I'm guessing) you come to the forums and make a post like this telling everyone that the "easy mode" treasure maps have garbage loot.

I also have no clue where you came from with the comment about easy mode and whatnot. Did you even read my post? The point of a game is to have fun, which I stated in my post. You disagree with this? I mentioned that getting better gear would mean that you would be able to obtain the best items easier and more efficiently. This doesn't mean the game is easy mode or that you ever need to get those items. It means that you will have an easier time getting those items if you wanted too compared to someone without the highest gear and skills.(therefore creating a market for high end gear/pets/power scrolls)

Also, I don't remember saying anything about requiring taming to do anything either. It makes things a lot easier, but there are tons of ways to kill stuff in this game and taming isn't the only way. I only stated that pets were basically all the same. You either have maxed out single slot pets, or you have maxed out single slot pack animals. They are mostly similar(some differences) To be honest, I hate the fact that I need to be a tamer to kill the strongest stuff in the game safely and I wish the combat skills and armor made warriors as strong. I definitely agree with you on this point, but I never really argued against it in the post I made before.

Aside from the above, I was simply explaining to you why things are the way they are in games.(not just this one) As far as scripting is concerned, this game is basically clay to be molded into whatever the shard owners want to spend time doing. They can change anything they want. It's just a matter of how much time it would take compared to the value of the change.

[Danilo Thann]

First of all, things like reagent stones are there to make life easier. They aren't free and if you feel like camping about ten mage shops for a couple hours, you can get even more regs at a lower price. This feature is simply about convenience.

The problem with your idea(not saying it's bad or anything) is that this is a game and the object of a game is to have fun by being able to do whatever it is that you like, easily and efficiently.

Nope u said nothing about easy mode...

I'm telling you why things are the way they are.

No your all knowing.. and still wonder why I came across as I did... forgive me for having a few flaws... one of them is people who think they know the ONLY answer... I'm sure yer right up there with any one who told columbus the world was flat and he was a fool... look how that turned out.

The point of this post isnt for people to tell me no it cant be done at all. But rather something like what you said in yer second post:

There has to be low end items and there has to be high end items.(or everything would be the same) You will always perceive items that are less than what you are using to be weak and you will always perceive items that are better than what you're using to be strong. Weak items are going to be cheaper and more common as people throw them away or give them away. Strong items will be more rare because players will hoard them and sell them at a higher price. The fact that the drop rate of strong items is low also makes this more pronounced.

Its a very good critical point of view... though it has still missed the mark and i feel that is my fault, because i penned my post at a later hour. I wans't trying to make an Skinning Knife of Elemental Slaying more powerful... or more valuable ( though i strongly believe a magical version of any weapon or armor should have a better going rate then a normal one, because it make it a little more worth while) I was just trying to get some items usefulness to a better standard.

I also want to apologize for some of my rant in the last post... I was a little angry, and for no good reason Pocketcow... Just please stop telling me how it is and instead give me your creative opinions on why is is or isn't good. I don't have a problem hear yes or no, but want more feedback. Any one can say yes or no, but I'll take people more seriously if they have a reason why. PM me if u want to know why I mentioned Tamers... this is already a book... sighs.

[Pocketcow]

I'm not trying to tell you "how things are" because I'm all knowing. I am trying to explain to you that this is how things are because of game design. It doesn't matter what game you are playing, they all have items that suck and items that don't. YOU CANNOT AVOID this no matter what unless everything is exactly the same, which is incredibly boring.

Do you understand what I am trying to say yet? This is exactly why I mentioned this isn't my opinion and that it is simple fact. Look at real life. What kind of car do you drive? Is it the best car? Or is it something you settled on because you felt that more money would be better spent elsewhere? If someone came along and offered to give you a $200 car that needed oil every 20 miles would you get rid of your current car and drive it? No, you would not because what you currently have is better than that. You would call that car junk and move along. That's exactly why the gear is the way it is now.

I also still do not understand your idea of "easy mode." The vending stone is there for CONVENIENCE. IT COSTS MORE THAN BUYING THEM FROM VENDORS. Now explain to me why that is easy mode? You can make a runebook full of mage shops in about ten minutes and spend 5 minutes every half hour to buy them out. In 3 hours time(about 15-20 minutes of actual in game work) you could have each vendor selling 999 of each reg per half hour at a lower cost than what the vendor stone charges.

Is this also easy mode?

I am not attacking you or your ideas. I am just trying to understand what you want to happen here. A lot of the stuff in your post could be fixed with scripting if the admins wanted to do that. The rest that I talked about in this post aren't things that can ever be fixed for the reasons I mentioned above.

[Danilo Thann]

I realize that their has to be low end stuff... PLEASE NOTE THIS IN YER NEXT POST!

I'm not angry, I just want you to understand me. With concerns to the skinning knife, my idea was to make it more valuable in an economical way. Like for instance I found or made a plain skinning knife and sold it for 12gp... why is a magical one worth only 12gp as well... even if the sale to an NPC vendor was only 20gp it would be better and make more sense. Because that's in accord with yer statement about lesser versus better... the lesser here is the normal skinning knife.

And my second idea, though probably not expressed correctly the first time, would be high end bods that required magical items to fill them. thus a magical skinning knife has a purpose... which was the whole idea of the post in the first place. Making everything that is in the game have a worth while purpose.

Not everything can be fixed, granted. But that thought won't stop me from trying.

As far as easy mode well that's a whole Nother situation... and it really had nothing to do with the reagent stone, the stone was just an example... which seems to be the problem on the forums. Everyone thinks only one thing, their first impression, and instead of getting clarification before posting, they assume and thus post making a bleep of you and a bleep of me as the saying goes...

This thread has made me not want to care any more about improving the Ex shard. But that's just my first impression, maybe I'll check my facts first... *sighs* To much hassle it seems to express one's self to a so called Family Shard.

[Pocketcow]

*sighs* To much hassle it seems to express one's self to a so called Family Shard.

No, this is called constructive criticism. You posted some raw ideas and someone(me) made posts about what they thought could be done in their own opinion. Being a family shard doesn't mean people are just going to agree with everything you say. The fact that I don't think I completely understood where you were going with this idea should tell you that maybe you weren't clear enough with your ideas in the first post.

Now that I see that you wanted items to be valuable to NPC vendors instead of players, I think I see what you're saying a little better now. Maybe others that are reading this thread will have benefited from this and might have their own information to add.

Again, I am all for making this place better. Trust me, I do treasure hunting and I feed tons of stuff to the token bag.

[Danilo Thann]

I'm glad we have risen above miscommunication...

And I'm sure it's just me; but I have a feeling 'People' (myself included) will respond better to what you have to say (constructive criticism), if your first sentence doesn't start something like:

I understand what you're trying to say here, but it will never work.

I might even Read past the first paragraph next time before hitting the reply to post button... I on the other hand will spend time critisizing my own idea a little better before regurgitating them on the general public. Ha ha ha yes I said it, and grammatically correct (hopes).

Later Cow...