Excelsior Council

[Devlin]

I cannot say that I was around when the Council existed, nor have I been able to find anyone that was either. Thus being, I can't say I have much knowledge as to what the responsibilities and tasks of the Council were, save what the Codex entails. The fact that it doesn't exist to this day implies that it became unnecessary, a burden, or both and was done away with.
Now, I think I can speak for some of the veterans when I say, we've run out of things to do. Personally, I can only play this game a few weeks at a time now, before I get bored and move onto something else (then the cycle repeats itself and I'm back here ). While there is a lot of content, there isn't much to do once you've farmed GoC's for a bit, leveled weps, gotten some relayers, etc. Crafting is a viable option (personally I'd rather shoot myself in the foot) but even then, the benefit isn't that great.
Taking into consideration the work that is already done by the staff to maintain the server, players' needs and their own lives, I don't want to ask them for any new/upgraded content (though I have some awesome ideas on revamped things... but I digress). Instead, I'd like to consider reenacting the Council, or something similar, to give veterans another aspect to the game.
So, after all that, I ask two things: 1. Was anyone around during the time of the Council? What were its priorities? 2. What do people think some of the responsibilities of the Council could be? For example, I was thinking something along the lines of establishing market guidelines for pricing.
Discuss.

[Adrias]

For example, I was thinking something along the lines of establishing market guidelines for pricing.

no.

although it might help you know that titan's hammers go for 200+ eds

[BlaZe]

I wasn't around since its inception, but I do remember seeing three or four people with the "Member of the Excelsior Council" tag under their name. I'm pretty sure it eventually turned into an elitist group - not the fault of any one person in particular - which is why staff put an end to it. Which was probably a good thing.. because in hindsight they had a few 'bad apples'. Something tells me that these couple people were making (or would make) suggestions not for the betterment of the shard as a whole, but for the benefit of the clique.


As for this:

For example, I was thinking something along the lines of establishing market guidelines for pricing.

no.

although it might help you know that titan's hammers go for 200+ eds

I know this is a family shard, but the forums is no place for childish remarks and one-liners without any real thoughtful input - sorry, it had to be said.


I don't agree with the concept of any group that feels they should tell others what to buy or sell things for (even if it is averaged). If one was around here a year ago they'd know EDs were usually sold for no more than 40k. A year before that they were 20-25k, in fact - an older player told me that there was a point where it was cheaper to buy the 50ED Bless Deed than it was to get the 1mil one. Titan's Hammers usually didn't go for more than a couple million until people started overbidding each other for it. If anyone remembers ABD and his obsession for Jackal's Collars, they'd also remember that he was paying 2.5-3m for one. This made everyone and their mother who started playing at the time think "OMG I'm gonna be a bazillionaire if I farm enough of those!"

The point is that prices are always going to fluctuate depending on the number of people out to get those items, the number of people harvesting them, the number of bug fixes made, the number of 'nerfs', the number of blah blah blah blah. How much is that Jackal's Collar worth now? How much would it be worth if the Dex + Healing fix were to go through?

The best way to determine [current] prices on things is (and will probably always be) the dreaded Global Chat price check, unfortunately.

[Adrias]

I know this is a family shard, but the forums is no place for childish remarks and one-liners without any real thoughtful input - sorry, it had to be said.

no was my opinion, some other "veteran" brought this up a few days ago about price fixing and I said more there. It is a stupid idea and doesn't deserve much thought or a response so none was given. Anyone that knows anything about how prices work knows it will not work.

telling him 200+ eds is the price for a Titan's hammer was helpful so he can might actually be able to acquire one but I doubt anyone really sells them seeing as they spawn once a month (if kept to osi standards). Also this really does not fall in line with the amount people farming for it lowers the price since there is already a scarce supply with no way to increase it.

[Undertaker]

Blaze said it well, *thumbs up* ... When i started EDs were 10k... Organics were like 2-3 gp's... Ointments were 500-1k... Titans hammer ran just like any other doom arty, 100-200k depending on the item... Sheesh, even then, 200k for a titans, you would be LUCKY if someone was interested...

As for the Council, Blaze is also right, they put an end to it really fast it seemed like, but it was more so based on helping the staff make decisions from the player's aspect, sorta like being a Staffer without any powers... But my memory could be wrong, because it did Not last that long for me to remember, nor care about it...

Devlin you do make a point... If you started at my time (like the prices i remember shown above). It would be cool to see a Vet of that age still around... At this point, ive done it all, about the crafting, i agree with you on that, i too would shoot myself in the foot lmao...

But there are only a few of us left. At this point really, the only reason why im here, is:

1: I created a home here
2: I donated X amount (enough to keep me here)

So by that said, I agree with you, Vets DO need more activity here... But at the rate of progress is, itll be awhile before the staff get to upgrades, etc... Colibri and his team have alot on their plate, and I understand... Becuz in the end, I aint goin anywhere

If i may make an opnion about the "Pricing Market"... Look at it like the Stock Market, it gets crazy, after awhile, it calms down, and people look for the next hot (needed) item... But i think its safe to say that the ONLY thing wont go up, is ED's, i think everyone got in agreement that 50k is fair...

[TheWatcher]

I mentioned this once before, thought it might be an idea.... but i do think im pretty awesome.....

The clients chat tab(between journal and help tabs) sits unused and would require no work what so ever to set up as a "market".

I know it is just as easy to type in global but it might clear up global chat for normaal everyday chat and move some of the PC to a different area. I think exex has been good for knowing the prices of things that are actually on the list, but for some other things Im still in the dark....

Anyhoo,

On to topic. I wasnt around when the Council were around as im still a newb, but I do agree sometimes i get a little bored and go away for a day or two.... (oh no wait... I get called into work) I do however findnew ways to amuse myself.... what i can/can't melee, bio engineering, pet breeding, crafting, Welcoming new players, organising hide and seek, running a guild, plat ele hunting..... dying at umbris, the new dungeon, redoing my house, I might even start plant growing too..... The way i see it, the staff have their hands full fixing some existing problems as it is, so I will entertaain myself until staff can finsih their already heavy workload and add some new stuff. The fact there has been numerous events and 3-4 new areas since i started, is good enough for me

My 2c

[anarchy]

Anyone that knows anything about how prices work knows it will not work.

yes it did work. eds were selling at 100k ea before Colibri started to stock the exex with eds @ 50k creating a ceiling price. even in the today's market there is such a thing as a "ceiling price" and a "floor price" so mom and pops stores don't go out of business, and can compete in the everyday market. Populations has an incredible effect on the market look at India for example (2.8 billion). when your population grows so does the money flooded into the economy system. It's just natural. I agree with Devlin that maybe a council would be good. finding out prices (realistic not money grubbing), and suggesting to staff that the exex needs to be stocked with x items at x price, or staff putting in vendors with said items (excluding the crazy rares: titan hammers and stuff like that or including- their choice) with x item at x price. have it so you can only buy 1 x item. thus like i said creating a more stable economy system. for example, if organics started to go as high as 500 (which it is now on exex); then the staff stocks the exex with organics at 200, but if the staff notices that the bio's price hasn't dropped they start stocking a vendor with bio's at 6 mil ea. both effects would be a gold sink and create a ceiling price. (i for one if i noticed a staff vendor for 6 mil would drop my price to contend with said prices).

imo

[Nelapsi]

I think it would be scary if some people were on a Council, probably the same issues that caused it to be shut down originally (Before anyone thinks I am talking about you, know I am talking about myself.). As far as trying to control the market pricing, I see nothing wrong with how things are going. I think the current Titan Hammer fixation is a perfect example, more people want one then people willing to sell, so the price raises as buyers try to get the attention of potential sellers. Just like you are free to offer whatever price you desire for an item, sellers are free to state the price they desire as well.

There is a better solution to this rather then trying to force any kind of pricing structure, have a player run auction system. Players are free to put items up for auction at any time. Just like exex handled smoothing out the sale and purchasing of many stackables, this would do the same for those rarer items. I go to real life auctions to buy rare books, could add some interesting fun to the shard as well perhaps.

[Devlin]

Well the market idea was just that.. an idea. Not saying that things MUST be sold at what is dictated, just a general guideline of what items have/are selling at.
And as for the power-grabs or anything in the Council, multiple members/a voting system balance that out.

[Adrias]

Anyone that knows anything about how prices work knows it will not work.

yes it did work. eds were selling at 100k ea before Colibri started to stock the exex with eds @ 50k creating a ceiling price. even in the today's market there is such a thing as a "ceiling price" and a "floor price" so mom and pops stores don't go out of business, and can compete in the everyday market. Populations has an incredible effect on the market look at India for example (2.8 billion). when your population grows so does the money flooded into the economy system. It's just natural. I agree with Devlin that maybe a council would be good. finding out prices (realistic not money grubbing), and suggesting to staff that the exex needs to be stocked with x items at x price, or staff putting in vendors with said items (excluding the crazy rares: titan hammers and stuff like that or including- their choice) with x item at x price. have it so you can only buy 1 x item. thus like i said creating a more stable economy system. for example, if organics started to go as high as 500 (which it is now on exex); then the staff stocks the exex with organics at 200, but if the staff notices that the bio's price hasn't dropped they start stocking a vendor with bio's at 6 mil ea. both effects would be a gold sink and create a ceiling price. (i for one if i noticed a staff vendor for 6 mil would drop my price to contend with said prices).

imo

iirc colibri said he stocked exex with eds at 70k.

Honestly, the second I suspect the staff of setting the prices at unreasonable levels (if colibri set eds at say 20k instead of over the typical market value) I am off this server. There is no reason to it, players should regulate the economy themselves. Organics for 500gp each? no one is forcing you to buy them, wait until they are back down to 200-250. Having the staff stock exex with organics at 200gp only benefits you and the few other people who sell bios.

[TheWatcher]

Organics for 500gp each? no one is forcing you to buy them, wait until they are back down to 200-250. Having the staff stock exex with organics at 200gp only benefits you and the few other people who sell bios.

http://www.uoex.net/forum/viewtopic.php ... 23&start=0

I think this says it all... How expensive it is already to amke bios. At the price of 500gp per.... there is no proifit in making bios at 7200 luck. Everyone who makes bios is not at that mark as far as I know which means it is even less profitable.

It will effect the whole shard by either increase the cost of bios to 15 mil, or make them unsellable killing them for the shard all together.

I think this comment was made with the ignorance of someone who has never made bios before and doesnt realise the pain involved in the process.

Im not sure staff should dictate prices. I think it is the job of players to do so. The players have to make a stand and say, we are not paying 500gp per. Eventually the price will go back down.

[Adrias]

Organics for 500gp each? no one is forcing you to buy them, wait until they are back down to 200-250. Having the staff stock exex with organics at 200gp only benefits you and the few other people who sell bios.

I think this comment was made with the ignorance of someone who has never made bios before and doesnt realise the pain involved in the process.

Im not sure staff should dictate prices. I think it is the job of players to do so. The players have to make a stand and say, we are not paying 500gp per. Eventually the price will go back down.

bolded parts match.

also what I said was not ignorance but common sense, the reason to buy organics is to make bios. if the staff artificially makes organics cheaper cheaper, than the people selling bios make out with more money.

[TheWatcher]

[quote=" Having the staff stock exex with organics at 200gp only benefits you and the few other people who sell bios.

bolded parts did match, I was more talking about this statement. Keeping prices at 200gp benifits the whole shard.... not just the person making bios. As was said in the other thread there is very little profit in making bios at 200gp. Im not saying i agree with staff keeping prices at 200gp, but i think people who are selling them as younguns should undertsand that increasing prices of organics will make bios near unbuyable (is that a word? )

Ignorance about how long/hard it is to make bios, for the little amount of profit from it. anyhooo.....

[Adrias]

No, I am aware of how bad it is. losing 1mil+ gold just for that 1/10 chance of not making the vial set is pretty bad.
I think a better solution would just to be increase the amount of organics from say the blood clan champ (or make abominations spawn more often, slight increase in newbie quest organic reward, etc..), make him drop like 10k organics or something so veterans would actually do it.

I was thinking about doing what you said with the 5 alts on the newbie quest when I first started, but man that is just soul crushingly boring lol. Was hard enough to do on one character

[anarchy]

1+ mil. can you be more precise? more like 4+ mill loss.

so far this week.
28k organics--no counter healing/ good special. (non acid rain most monsters are immune or heals themselves)
5k organics- successful empty vial set.
1k organics- successful mental.
1k organics- successful environmental.
5k organics- 1 successful prowess 4 fails (at 7200 luck).
1k organic- successful bio deed.

still no counter heal/ good special.
total price so far of bio.
8.2 mil + whenever i get a good mimic @ 200 ea. organic. could you imagine what it would be like for 350 ea?
you see why bio's go for 8-10 mil depending on mimic? ( at 7200 luck i have the same chances of getting the specials as everyone else)

Having the staff stock exex with organics at 200gp only benefits you and the few other people who sell bios.

see above overhead cost.

no Colibri won't stock the exex because (i think) it will hurt the new players trying to make it on this shard.
how to fix this? give us a recycle option so we can at least get 25% back...i'd be super happy with just that. (kind of pathetic over 250 organics, but 4 chops makes 1 vial anyone wanna buy 80 something worthless dna for only 200k ea.? anyone please i'll sell them to you. )

have a player run auction system. Players are free to put items up for auction at any time. Just like exex handled smoothing out the sale and purchasing of many stackables, this would do the same for those rarer items. I go to real life auctions to buy rare books, could add some interesting fun to the shard as well perhaps..

love that idea!! i go to auctions too... for antiques a lot of fun but sometimes i blow too much money on stupid things. lol

The players have to make a stand and say, we are not paying 500gp per. Eventually the price will go back down.

kind of like a trust/council huh? that's what i'm talking about, but i can not control another player's way of spending his money.

I was thinking about doing what you said with the 5 alts on the newbie quest when I first started, but man that is just soul crushingly boring lol. Was hard enough to do on one character

lol never did it when i was a young player.