Economic Downturn

[Unbeliever]

My views on all the suggestions:

Narrow-mindedness -

I find it a little hard to pick on anyone about the "narrow minded" part. I'm not saying that people don't gravitate towards whatever is popularly believed to be "the best" whether it is or not; they do. I said exactly that in a thread about pets, although there I said that the best pet or combination of pets could change depending on the situation. The thing is that relayers cost A LOT. They're a monumentally expensive investment. The Relayer deed (500ED) and the Weapon Type Change deed (200ED) are mandatory, with optional (but very very useful) +10 Levels to a Weapon deeds (100EDx10), SR5 (50ED), Spell Channeling (100ED), and Luck (100EDx1-4). You're looking at anywhere from 700 - 2250 ED (70 - 225 Euro) for a weapon relayer, or in terms of gold 35 mil to 112,500,000. And that cost would be identical whether you were relayering a Bone Crusher or a Wind's Edge. The only price difference between the two would be in the initial weapon cost, that being roughly 3.5 million gold (anywhere from 9.1 to 3% of the final relayer total cost).

People play around with character templates on other servers because it's free - it costs them nothing to try a tamer/fisherman, an archer/tamer, or a PKing bard except their time invested. It's quite another thing to expect someone to "play around" and "have fun" with an investment of a hundred or more dollars. I don't know enough about all the weapons in the game or the process of leveling yet to know with 100% certainty that Bone Crushers are indeed "the best" (outside of Titan's Hammers) but I know that when I break out my credit card for a purchase like that or spend what is for me 2 - 3+ months of grinding in gold, I will want the best. A 3 - 9% savings on second or third best doesn't appeal to me. And I believe that, in the end, this suggestion of "having fun with it" is something that a lot of players will verbally support but won't have any part of in actuality. How many threads have there been where someone's said "Is endgame really all about leveling/relayering? How boring. There are a thousand things to do in this game! Go out and have fun!". Yet chat remains plauged with the "Ermagerd.. leveling is SO boring." pseudo-complaints of players who will not do anything except whatever is most profitable and there are even more players who do it all day but don't say anything about it. They'll leave the old school dungeon runs and Wind's Edge relayers for someone else, and I have trouble blaming them. When I see someone drop 14 million tokens on one item at an auction, it makes me want to be one of the "haves". I do promise though, here and now, that if I ever get to the point where I have enough free time and character power (and how I long for that day) that I can grind 3+ million gold in an afternoon, I'll start the alternate relayer movement.


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Vendor's site/pricing analysis = +1 I think that's spot-on AND a pristine example of how an imagined solution to a problem can create more problems. Sometimes no matter how long you think something through, you still can't anticipate everything. But taking it slow and cautious never hurts.

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[exex problems = +1 Even as a newb I identified that with some starting capital it would be easy to gamble a bit and manipulate the market on many items. I never did it but I'm sure that it needs to be addressed somehow.

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Freebies = +1 Said as much myself once upon a thread. This is one thing that staff cannot control, it must be player-driven. It has been said several times since I started here and I thought it would be an easy sell but apparently not. Unfortunately I can't think of any way to drive this point home differently or better.

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Entitlement/Resistance = +1 These are self-evident. Read threads on proposed change and believe. These are also purely the domain of the players. Staff can't do anything but hope for a change in general attitudes. The only thing I have to say is that UO players are quick to complain but also quick to adapt and slow to depart. They're generally more yielding, I think, than forum talk would suggest. Also, I've seen most of the other servers out there. Even in the areas that need attention the most, Excelsior is a diamond in the rough. Those other servers, at their best, are just plain rough.

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GoC quest -

If it's a problem that absolutely must be resolved for the good of the server, then that's what it is. I'd just like to point out that not all players have an equal amount of free time to spend on Excelsior, and being too limiting on time constraints would exclude some people outright. If this is implemented, please try to find a reasonable decay/timeout that gives anyone who at least makes a real effort a shot at pulling it off. (btw along this line, thanks for the extended length of holiday events )

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Doom -

I believe that with most people doing whatever is most profitable, most monster spawns in most parts of the world are not being bothered with at all. Those few that players do consider bothering with are usually heavily contested. That's not always a good thing, as half the arguments I've had here since I started were with players who felt they owned a spawn and refused to take turns. The very first time I went to one of the Doom gauntlets, the sign said it was avilable but there were, in fact, two people running around who didn't offer to take turns. I didn't know the rules at the time and I stood there waiting for them as they took run after run. It wasn't until I read the sign and asked them why they weren't taking turns that they quit it. I took three or four runs but after getting blanked on artifacts and nothing at all from the Dark Father, I left. Haven't been back as the encounter left a bad taste in my mouth and I haven't been looking forward to repeating it, though I've added more luck gear and was hoping to try again soon. I'd think that one gauntlet would HAVE to end up causing more crowding and therefore, inevitably, more friction between players, especially as the server population seems to be on the rise lately. About the small group mentality, I don't have a GM's view of things but I wouldn't have guessed that would be a real problem, as in 1) I'd have thought it was something players were at liberty to do if they chose and 2) as long as turn-taking is actually occurring, whether you'd have to wait for a small or large group would be irrelevant.

[Rocafort]

GoC Quest Prices have fallen due to players being able to go to one area and literally save up the next year worth of items in a few hrs.

Fix for that would be to make all the quest items decay after 7 days (minus the completion gems of course). So you are going to actually do the quest when you are doing the quest and not just turning in the pieces u got a year ago to get more GoC to sell.

Artifacts from Doom Gauntlet is a problem imho because there are 2 gauntlets. Remove one and the arti drop rate is decreased already enough for less items out there.

I actually 100% agree with both of these. I have long pushed for the GoC items to have a decay rate, but the gem itself to be permanent. I am also in favor of making GoC gear (after using the gem) account bind on equip. The gauntlet, I would also agree that the 2nd one isn't necessary nowadays, particularly since we finally seem to have squashed that mentality of players keeping to a small group like it was 2 years ago.

This thread has a huge bias into veteran players point of view. For new players (which also compose a considerable amount of the shard population) some of the measures you are proposing, are unfair. Why should I be forced to collect GoC items in less than 7 days when you were able to collect them at your own pace and progress on the game at your will? Now I will be forced to speed up my game schedule just because some people is stockpiling items? That is unfair and wouldnt be a good solution for all.
In general, my impression after a few weeks of playing is that the shard is quite biased towards veteran players. As a new player you are forced, to a narrow minded path of progression (pets [mules->nobles->imps]->220dex->goc->relayers). Obviously this static progression path influences how economy performs. This not only includes gear, also pet system, which has been already discussed in other thread.

The game is full of content, but most of it does not reward in terms of progression in the standard path mentioned. This is a shame because all this content is probably ignored or bypassed.

• I totally agree that crafting should be overhauled and given the deserved credit
• The same goes for gathering, resources are incredibly cheap...in 10 minutes killing mobs I can get the gold needed to purchase ingots that would take hours to collect. Why to be a miner? Doing alternative things in the shard is severely punished.
• Vendor site killing the economy? hello? capitalism? free competence? demand and supply? anyone?
• It is clear that value of some items devaluates when mostly everyone has one (crossing of demand and supply). Make them unrepairable or introduce new a better items to keep up interest and higher demand(prices)
• Maybe an alternative way to encourage people to visit forgotten content would be to increase the weapon lvl experience you can obtain

I am aware that as a new player, I might be missing something, but I have been playing mmorpgs for 15 years and the economy problems mostly always happen. I think that Excelsior has a nice way to burn excesive cash and control inflation, but I dont understand why "low prices" are a concern...that is normal in a free competence capitalism economy, supply and demand. Lower demand, higher supply, lower price.

Peace

[Xavian]

Narrow-mindedness -

.... The Relayer deed (500ED) and the Weapon Type Change deed (200ED) are mandatory, with optional (but very very useful) +10 Levels to a Weapon deeds (100EDx10), SR5 (50ED), Spell Channeling (100ED), and Luck (100EDx1-4). You're looking at anywhere from 700 - 2250 ED (70 - 225 Euro) for a weapon relayer, or in terms of gold 35 mil to 112,500,000. And that cost would be identical whether you were relayering a Bone Crusher or a Wind's Edge. The only price difference between the two would be in the initial weapon cost, that being roughly 3.5 million gold (anywhere from 9.1 to 3% of the final relayer total cost)...

Weapon Type Change deed is only needed if the weapon has an artifact tag. There are TONS that don't, so it isn't really mandatory. The only two can thin of that I see commonly used that do have a tag are Bone Crushers and Titan's Hammers. As you said +10s are optional. I would never use them, the extra points are not worth it. SR5 is also not needed because relayers don't take damage. Spell Channeling is no needed, it's optional if you recall level and don't want to change your spell. And luck has been discussed to death as not much use. I too have not used luck deeds. So.. A relayer costs 500EDs plus the weapon. Anything else is a choice you make which increases the cost.

As for my relayers, I have a combination of "lesser" items.. Spirit of Totems, Swords of Prosperities, Butchers Resolve, Darkened Sky, Looted weapons and a couple of Bone Cruscher relayers I got a screaming deal on.

[Asmodean]

This thread has a huge bias into veteran players point of view. For new players (which also compose a considerable amount of the shard population) some of the measures you are proposing, are unfair. Why should I be forced to collect GoC items in less than 7 days when you were able to collect them at your own pace and progress on the game at your will? Now I will be forced to speed up my game schedule just because some people is stockpiling items? That is unfair and wouldnt be a good solution for all.
In general, my impression after a few weeks of playing is that the shard is quite biased towards veteran players. As a new player you are forced, to a narrow minded path of progression (pets [mules->nobles->imps]->220dex->goc->relayers). Obviously this static progression path influences how economy performs. This not only includes gear, also pet system, which has been already discussed in other thread.

No one is 'forced' to progress into anything they don't want to do. If you want to play with pets, go for it. If you want to get 1 relayer and no more, then do that. You don't have to get 12+, you don't need GoC, and you don't need to even fight if you don't want to. Thats the beauty of this game. You can make money doing other things that you do enjoy. With the changes coming, theres going to be even more opportunities opened up.

Also, you should be forced to collect GoC in 7 days because the system needs an update, and you are not entitled to anything the vets may or may not have had in the past.

Stockpiling of GoC items, keeps GoC more readily available for sale, which keeps the price down. For something that supposedly takes 21 days (hard coded) to complete, 2 to 3 mil is really, ridiculously cheap. You can do bees for 3 weeks, and walk away with near that much gold with much less effort and work. If people once again had to actually work for GoC the price would go back up (in theory), and maybe even become worth doing (to sell) once again.

The game is full of content, but most of it does not reward in terms of progression in the standard path mentioned. This is a shame because all this content is probably ignored or bypassed.

This is by choice, not by mandate.

I totally agree that crafting should be overhauled and given the deserved credit
The same goes for gathering, resources are incredibly cheap...in 10 minutes killing mobs I can get the gold needed to purchase ingots that would take hours to collect. Why to be a miner? Doing alternative things in the shard is severely punished.
Vendor site killing the economy? hello? capitalism? free competence? demand and supply? anyone?
It is clear that value of some items devaluates when mostly everyone has one (crossing of demand and supply). Make them unrepairable or introduce new a better items to keep up interest and higher demand(prices)
Maybe an alternative way to encourage people to visit forgotten content would be to increase the weapon lvl experience you can obtain

I think crafting definitely needs some love.

The awesome part about ultima online is if you don't want to be a miner, don't be a miner. How are you being punished exactly? You can make decent enough money (over time as opposed to instant gratification from looting some gold from a monster), and thats the difference.

Some things are more profitable than others. They always will be, because there will always be some advantage (perceived or real) from doing X vs doing Y.

I am aware that as a new player, I might be missing something, but I have been playing mmorpgs for 15 years and the economy problems mostly always happen. I think that Excelsior has a nice way to burn excesive cash and control inflation, but I dont understand why "low prices" are a concern...that is normal in a free competence capitalism economy, supply and demand. Lower demand, higher supply, lower price.

Low prices are a concern because new players need to do MORE work to get the SAME results as a vet. I'm going to use an almost static powerscroll as an example, but it could be any item any player could get. Lets take a 120 mining scroll for example. The standard price is about a million gold. Has been for 3 years or so with minimal variation. So, if any new player goes to a MoA champ, and gets one of these, awesome! They made some cash. If the price suddenly dropped to 100k gold, that same new player, would have to do 10x the work of the player that sold theirs for 1 mil for the same result: 1 million gold in their bank.

So, as prices drop, the gap between vets and newer (and mid level) players widens, and makes it harder to achieve vet status, which just degenerates into frustration and a sense of helplessness. People see how difficult it is to get anywhere, and instead of sticking it out, and working towards it, they move on to other shards to achieve the vet status they want more quickly. It doesn't even matter if it takes them longer on the other shard, its how its perceived.

So a healthy economy is essential on any shard, especially one that wants to keep players, and grow.

[Asmodean]

The thing is that relayers cost A LOT. They're a monumentally expensive investment. The Relayer deed (500ED) and the Weapon Type Change deed (200ED) are mandatory, with optional (but very very useful) +10 Levels to a Weapon deeds (100EDx10), SR5 (50ED), Spell Channeling (100ED), and Luck (100EDx1-4). You're looking at anywhere from 700 - 2250 ED (70 - 225 Euro) for a weapon relayer, or in terms of gold 35 mil to 112,500,000. And that cost would be identical whether you were relayering a Bone Crusher or a Wind's Edge. The only price difference between the two would be in the initial weapon cost, that being roughly 3.5 million gold (anywhere from 9.1 to 3% of the final relayer total cost).

Relayers are definitely an investment, in time or money, or both.

As Xavian said, not all weapons need a weapon change type deed. Only if it has an artifact tag, or you REALLY don't want to level that dagger you got. the +10 levels to a weapon deed, i would only use on my end game weapon, because you have enough points to max everything else out in a full relayer suit. so not really needed.

SR5 is awesome, but again not needed if you apply repair deeds while leveling up your weapon.
Spell Channeling... only my weapon has it, not needed on relayers.
Luck is also purely optional. It helps with some things, but unless you plan on being a bio engineer, you don't need 7200.
Maybe 1600-2000 for the average player.

You're also not considering gold as a viable option, only donation. Remember, you can purchase ED with gold at approximately 50k per ED. If you level your own weapon, by the time you take it from 1-100, you will have at least half that just from claiming the corpses as you kill them. More if you loot anything first, or sell the tokens you also earned. So basically, a relayer is free, if you take the time and do it yourself, which is the point of the people telling you to experiment.

The reason bone crushers are considered 'the best' next to a titans hammer, is because of the 10 strength. On a relayer, its only possible to add 8 strength. So, with bone crushers, you get an extra 3 hit points, and maybe a point of base damage. This is why they are considered 'premium'.

[Melkor]

One of the most interesting things I've noticed over the years is that back when I was in my first year. The best players had maybe 3-4 relayers at most. People used Titan's Hammers as weapons (and they cost about 10 mil). That was a Vet. Now there are a ton of people with 10+ relayers, so the concept of a Vet has changed very much since I started. For a new player, the "old vet" was more easily attainable, where as now the bar is much much higher and therefore a much longer journey. Of course no one is forcing players to strive for that, but as has already been discussed, people tend to want to be in the top category.

I think the real problem with the with the economy started when we tanked from 300+ players online down to 100. Glad to see it's climbing again.

The part of the economy I know most is the PS market, which sucks bad and has for a long time. I don't see the new rules as being a positive change, it seems everyone at the champ always get a PS, there are just too many PSs being given out. PS bag drops from a Necro champ I'm not a fan of either. I'd say phase the PS bag out altogether. Don't issue out anymore, eventually they will all go away.

[Cassie]

I completely agree with everything +nyx has said. I do however think that players come for different reason. I hesitated to come back to any UO game because I didn't want to have to go through all that training and struggling again. The first time, it was an accomplishment, the second would just be drudgery to me. It was the ability to use razor & the nice people I have met here that have kept me coming back. People also leave for different reasons. I received very little help the first month I was here. I really struggled and was preparing to give it up. I then met two people who helped me. They didn't give me expensive gifts, just helped me out with some of the basics, but more importantly they worked with me on ways to make some money (selling boards or iron on exex) and how to build my skills. I think wiki is nice, but there is no substitute for experienced player involvement. I know I have gone off the beaten path here, but I think the best gift we can give is our knowledge. I two days ago I met a player who had been here for short while (he is no longer young) and he said that I was the first person to speak to him and that he wasn't happy at this shard. I am introducing him around and working with him, so things should get better now. The number one thing we can do to retain shard membership is to help new players connect. More players means a better economy.

[ahorton12]

unbeliever said GoC quest -

If it's a problem that absolutely must be resolved for the good of the server, then that's what it is. I'd just like to point out that not all players have an equal amount of free time to spend on Excelsior, and being too limiting on time constraints would exclude some people outright. If this is implemented, please try to find a reasonable decay/timeout that gives anyone who at least makes a real effort a shot at pulling it off. (btw along this line, thanks for the extended length of holiday events )

I +1 this with a solution to timers and keeping items for years. put the 7 day decay timer on each but also allow each player a book that holds 1 of each item that wont decay because its added to the quest book. (bless the quest book and account bound) set that book to only be able to be gotten upon deleting the original quest book or turning in the quest book at the normal GOC quest timer. have it hold every piece. get rid of seperate gems. that would allow a person to only get 1 of each item while they farm for goc. dont allow a player to get another book until they turn in the first book or delete it by trashing the quest(also the timer delay on the book to keep GOC a slow process). keep the account bound so that only the player who loots it can use it. but add that to every Goc Piece in the game.

i just came up with that quickly so there may be problems im not seeing other than the coding of the book.

[Rocafort]

Also, you should be forced to collect GoC in 7 days because the system needs an update, and you are not entitled to anything the vets may or may not have had in the past.

No one said that new players should be entitled to anything, I said it is unfair, is quite different. The system might potentially become more complex and time stressing for new players (that are the ones that need more time to complete the quest) just because veteran players (that can complete the quest steps much faster) stockpile the items . Possible solutions, make the item unique, that is, you only can have one of this item. You can workaround relayers adding extra tags to the item to differentiate uniqueness. Another solution is to make the items account bound. You widen the veteran-new player gap just adding difficulty, I dont know if that is intended.

I think crafting definitely needs some love.

The awesome part about ultima online is if you don't want to be a miner, don't be a miner. How are you being punished exactly? You can make decent enough money (over time as opposed to instant gratification from looting some gold from a monster), and thats the difference.

Then maybe I am missing something, if I spend X hours mining and the same X hours hunting, and compare profits...there is a huge difference. Same goes for crafting. Yes I am not forced of course, I am neither forced to play the game whatsoever, that is not an argument excuse me

Low prices are a concern because new players need to do MORE work to get the SAME results as a vet.

Are you sure?
Lets say I am able to farm 50k daily. In order to purchase, e.g. JC
- If JC is valued 2M, it will take 40 days to save the money
- If JC raises to 10M, it will take me 200 days to save the money

I cant see how increasing prices will diminish the gap between news-vets. On the contrary, it seems to me that benefits the people that can loot the items easily...you know who?

I understand it is a tricky issue, some people wants low prices others prefer them high. But this, does not mean that economy is broken.

So a healthy economy is essential on any shard, especially one that wants to keep players, and grow.

Could you explain better your definition of 'healthy economy'?

[ahorton12]

Low prices are a concern because new players need to do MORE work to get the SAME results as a vet.

Are you sure?
Lets say I am able to farm 50k daily. In order to purchase, e.g. JC
- If JC is valued 2M, it will take 40 days to save the money
- If JC raises to 10M, it will take me 200 days to save the money

I cant see how increasing prices will diminish the gap between news-vets. On the contrary, it seems to me that benefits the people that can loot the items easily...you know who?

I understand it is a tricky issue, some people wants low prices others prefer them high. But this, does not mean that economy is broken.

So a healthy economy is essential on any shard, especially one that wants to keep players, and grow.

Could you explain better your definition of 'healthy economy'?

[/quote]

the question on that isnt that JC valued at 2m or 10m makes it harder for the younger players. the economy is driven on relayers which stay at a set price 500ed (25 mil) if you become strong enough to farm JC and its cost is 10 mil you will need to farm 3 of them for a relayer, however if its at 2 mil it will force you to farm 12 of them. in the end you have worked much harder to get that relayer than you would if it cost 10 mil. thats what they are talking about.

[Yoda]

plus when people such as zeke and I started here

everything from powerscrolls to gocs to jc's and everything else was double or more in cost..

I think my mining scroll cost me 2 million
my archery scroll 3
my first goc's were 7

and so on, and guess what I adapted and survived it.

[Unbeliever]

About my relayer/narrow-mindedness analysis - like most people, I don't fully understand relayers yet. I witnessed a lengthy discussion in public chat about how to med through relayered weapons and it was stated that Spell Channeling was equivalent to Mage Armor in that regard. Also, I shouldn't have said "mandatory" but I know that players use Weapon Type Change deeds on non-artifact weapons as well to increase base damage and have better specials. For all that's said about not needing SR5, Luck, Spell Channeling, or +10 Weapon Level Deeds, there are players who buy them and apply them. I wasn't oulining the absolute barebones price of a relayer, I was presenting min-max cost of a relayer. Amended minimum = 500 ED (50 Euro) or 25 million gold. It doesn't change my point very much though.

Eziekial - thanks, and your idea sounds great to me. Sounds just like what happens on event quests and that seems to work fine.

Rocafort - while it's true that there's a huge gold-per-hour difference between simple monster killing and peaceful endeavors like mining, what do you propose they do about it? I understand what you're saying there - personally I've always liked to fish in UO but I haven't fished at all on Excelsior because monster-slaying is so profitable. But I never felt that all activities should be equally profitable since they aren't all equally difficult or carry equal risk. And it's not hard to imagine ways to upgrade something like fishing (in fact there are enhancements coming for it in Elysium) but I have no clue how you might make mining more appealing. If you're serious about wanting a change, toss some ideas around.

[Arcon]

On the GOC :

The Goc system needs more items because those available are lame, so I think it is why the prices are down - if we could obtain better items than relayers - and limit those for the entire shard - we wouldn't discuss this ---- maybe adding more items - changing the difficulty of quests --- like some for newbs - some for middle players - and some some for vets - and adding many other ideas suggested in previous posts would change the game... I know many changes are expected with the new realms the staff is working on --- and adding more arties is part of their ideas.

So I think like many others : we need more of everything.... and I know it is coming - keep up the good work !

[Joshuashw]

In game name: Nakkasu

Ultimately it really depends what your goal is. If someone wants to make a lot of gold they'll figure it out, if someone wants to make pretty flowers and craft they'll do that. The problem is a lot of people value relayers and gold over flowers and crafting. a lot of people enjoy crafting but want a large coin return from it like the hunters get.

most people are putting their time in hunting because this is what they see valuable, it's impossible as a person to say "i want to be a crafter of peace" but at the same time "i want a massive gold flow and rare items" a worker of peace isn't selfish and doesn't want in general. So ultimately individual goals really depend on what they truly want and where their heart is.

I thought i was a person who wanted to craft but i was easily swayed by relayers and hunting because i could boost my stats. I thought i would return to growing flowers and crafting but after getting relayers and trying to craft i noticed how much less money there is in crafting and flowers. I was like what the heck i'm not doing this. It's not worth my time.


There's a market for a lot of things but also everyone has these things already. Who wants to buy flowers that have been available for a decade?

Who wants to buy platinum armor to hunt in when people give away equivelant or armor that protects them much more so in battle?

A lot of mediocre to low end areas are camped by veterans or well equipped players for a couple reasons. One reason is a lot of good spots are often well camped and lets face it, low to medium areas lead to fair gold gains.

I believe elysium will help with market but that wont make things better for new to middle ground players. older content plus lack of large new player flow makes things difficult but this is a old game. everyone is self sufficient for the most part

[Dramoor]

To put it this way:

You do not need JC/Batwings/GlovesofPug/8x8 Jewelry to play here. If you want to go the Advanced route you will want to get them later on. What is the point of 220 dex being a later on and advanced point of the game. I and many others like myself used pets for 1 to even 1.5 or longer years here. You do not need re-layers to play here. It is something to work up to for end game later on.

The typical way to go now because of big guilds giving their players tips is to just go right to 220 dex or 125 125 50 stats and gain that way. Pets have fallen in price and usefulness. And in the end when you hit that 220 dex what is next, level level level level re-layer re-layer re-layer. Doesn't anyone actually want to play Ultima Online anymore or do you just want to get to end game and be done? Look at 85 to 90 percent of the vets who went as fast as they could go get end game. What do they do? Sit afk at banks, recall to a few champs, check one or two more things and then go back to their afk spots.

The game has so many things you can do in the game, but most limit it to one or two things because they want to have "The best gear". You don't even need that gear, it is just a perk and a long road to boredom.

A lot of that is ruined for instance like Nakkasu said Flowers aren't very useful for 220 dexers. They also aren't very useful when you can buy those sprinklers for Tokens and make 5000 flowers a week. Yes im exaggerating that number but it is a kill point in flowers. So easy to do, why buy them, or why charge more when you can undercut the masses making it pointless to even try to make for selling?

Same goes for all items as stated, Why sell a GoC for higher when 20 others are selling, and you didn't do any work for it in the past 8 to 12 months but turn in the items you have been sitting on in boxes.

Why think about pricing or guess on a price of an item to sell on your vendor when you can go to vendors.uoex.net and within 5 minutes undercut everyone selling that same item simply by going to their vendor after seeing who's selling that item, and lowering your price (I would give examples but no need for a player to think an example was singling them out). But out of all the things that are wrong with the economy, that is probably the biggest killer there. Convenient for us as shoppers, but bad for any sense value on items.

Heck you can manipulate/buy low while selling high on [exex and make a ton of gold the way the system is setup if you know how to work it, and have time to check every hour the order numbers.

Why care if you sell a JC for 250k since heck, your Guild member gave you it for free?

Guilds are good for players do not get me wrong but when 80 percent of your guild were given most of their items free and pushed along to the fast path and haven't done much to get those items, Where are you at? Just as bored as the vets.

Maybe the vets are mean for wanting to sell items higher priced. Maybe you are mean for wanting it for basically nothing. Can't change how any of you will think on it so bickering over it won't really change anything.


For saying that higher pricing is not good for the economy though....We were around 200 to 300 player base average online (well went over 300 once) with higher pricing. I think today right now we are at 164 players online when I posted this.