I don't have any children, I do however have friends with some.
Sooner or later I wind up with someone wanting my help in setting up a computer. It starts with one for the family, sometimes it stays that way but sometimes they ask me to help them setup a second or more for them. When or if they tell me it's for their kids I always try to have the same talk with them as a friend. First do they want net access, if so have they considered the age of their son/daughter? Are they sure they trust their child with such a responsibility and are they willing to take on the responsibility of monitoring their usage? If they say that their kid isn't a problem and they trust them so they don't need to keep an eye on them I walk them over to my office and show them a small portion of what is out there to remind them of what is really on the other side of the door. I also remind them of just how many times I've usually had to work on or reformat their drive because "someone" went somewhere they shouldn't have and got spam porn popups, bugs, worms etc on their comp. In the vast pixel forest there are plenty of dangers and places like this are a rather small part perhaps but still parents need to keep an eye on their kids. They may not like it, they for a time may even resent it but it's what needs to be done. If I had children would I let them play here, perhaps but on MY terms. My rules would be stricter then anything the staff could come up with and as with my on view on pixel land "I can make you all go away any time I want to" if they did something or others did or said things I did not wish for them to see then click.
Enough is Enough
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KnitePrince
- Legendary Scribe
- Posts: 233
- Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:20 pm
Re: Enough is Enough
I've never done drugs, even when good friends offered them, I guess, I was seriously influenced by watching my father pound a guy he cought selling drugs into the dirt when i was about 10, and a couple other men from the town dragged him away, i dont recall the circimstances, I only remember walking with my father, when he grabbed me and stood me aside and told me NOT to move... when my father used that tone of voice I did what I was told, I remember the following events quite clearly, and i recall when it was almost done who the two men that came running across the square were, and them asking what the H*$$ was going on, and my father telling them that this, pointing to the guy on the ground, was the gent that tried to sell the drugs to my 13 year old cousin, the two men searched the barely consious man, and came up with several small packages, they pounded my father on the back, congratulating him, then each grabbed a foot and they drug the man toward the fire station.... since that very moment, i have avoided drugs as completely that I could. I also have a very biased oppinion about discussing them in an area or way that young people might actually get the idea that drugs arent bad..
I lost two childhood friends to drugs, and Ive seen other aquaintances lives ruined by them, so personally do not appriciate the talk over open chat about drugs. I have seen it quite often, and as far as I know nothing was ever done about it, though I would not be opposed to it being stopped.
What it comes down to, is that everyone has different experiences, and a different morality. If you were never tought they were wrong, done drugs, and never had problems with health etc, then you probably wouldnt see them as something that is bad...
my Morality is considered old school, I think someone that swears often is immature and needs to grow up.. i swear occasionally, but I dont fill my sentances with profanity. When i got out of the service, profanity had become a habit that i had to break, but, when you TYPE everything you say, it is something that you had to think about while typing, so it was not somethign that just "slipped out" I didnt allow my kids to swear growing up, and i took a belt to their butts when they needed it. My daughter threatened to call the police on me once, i handed her the phone, and my wife told her if she made the call she needed to find somewhere else to live...
Last fall my son thanked me for raising him the way I did, just a few weeks ago my daughter called me and did the same thing, at the time she hated me, but now she sees why I did what I did. Unlike a lot of todays youth, mine grew up knowing respect and manners..
On a shard where ladies play, On a shard where children play, I personally would expect people to be grown up enough not to open their mouths if all they are going to do is spew garbage and profanity, or talk about things that most parents would not want their children to be subjected to... but then, I still stand when a lady enteres a room, i hold the door for her, and call her Ma'am, and many other things that i was tought were correct....
Yes, there is the argument that they shouldnt be allowed on the net then... but .... Coli wants this to be a family shard, so all such arguments are totally irrelivant, this IS his shard, he makes the rules. If you dont like that, there are many other shards to play on....
but you like it here????
Why do you think that is? I think it is because the family atmosphere is encouraged, friendly people are encouraged, and because Coli tries to limit the CRAP that people type and do.
I do not agree with double standards, but every admin and or GM is different, and may translate the rules differently.. I was once jailed, for telling someone on a shard i just bought a new coonhound bitch.... I just logged out and waited, no, i wasnt happy, but it wasnt my shard, it was a privelage to play there.. and i recieved an appology from the owner, as his GM was just following the "rules".
I am by no means, saying not to voice a complaint, just to understand, people are people. Anytime you deal with people mistakes are made, and translation of something is as diverse as the people translating it.
I have seen dozens of Convos, and statements over open chat.. "puff puff pass" so many that i dont remember tham all, and every time i just shook my head thinking theres another idiot that thinks drugs are cool.. Ive seen someone swearing on the chat, about being killed, or something didnt work the way they expected, and my thoughts were, theres another 13 year old that thinks swearing is cool..
But, I am old, and grew up with blisters on my butt at least once a week.. Every one of which was well earned and deserved, my father did a decent job of teaching me right and wrong, unfortunately the right and wrong of those days, does not match up to the right and wrong of these days... Yet I still hold to those values, they influence everything I do, and because of those values, I dont swear, or do drugs, and I respect others.... and i appriciate this shard all the more because of it.
This old man is done with his rant now.
I lost two childhood friends to drugs, and Ive seen other aquaintances lives ruined by them, so personally do not appriciate the talk over open chat about drugs. I have seen it quite often, and as far as I know nothing was ever done about it, though I would not be opposed to it being stopped.
What it comes down to, is that everyone has different experiences, and a different morality. If you were never tought they were wrong, done drugs, and never had problems with health etc, then you probably wouldnt see them as something that is bad...
my Morality is considered old school, I think someone that swears often is immature and needs to grow up.. i swear occasionally, but I dont fill my sentances with profanity. When i got out of the service, profanity had become a habit that i had to break, but, when you TYPE everything you say, it is something that you had to think about while typing, so it was not somethign that just "slipped out" I didnt allow my kids to swear growing up, and i took a belt to their butts when they needed it. My daughter threatened to call the police on me once, i handed her the phone, and my wife told her if she made the call she needed to find somewhere else to live...
Last fall my son thanked me for raising him the way I did, just a few weeks ago my daughter called me and did the same thing, at the time she hated me, but now she sees why I did what I did. Unlike a lot of todays youth, mine grew up knowing respect and manners..
On a shard where ladies play, On a shard where children play, I personally would expect people to be grown up enough not to open their mouths if all they are going to do is spew garbage and profanity, or talk about things that most parents would not want their children to be subjected to... but then, I still stand when a lady enteres a room, i hold the door for her, and call her Ma'am, and many other things that i was tought were correct....
Yes, there is the argument that they shouldnt be allowed on the net then... but .... Coli wants this to be a family shard, so all such arguments are totally irrelivant, this IS his shard, he makes the rules. If you dont like that, there are many other shards to play on....
but you like it here????
Why do you think that is? I think it is because the family atmosphere is encouraged, friendly people are encouraged, and because Coli tries to limit the CRAP that people type and do.
I do not agree with double standards, but every admin and or GM is different, and may translate the rules differently.. I was once jailed, for telling someone on a shard i just bought a new coonhound bitch.... I just logged out and waited, no, i wasnt happy, but it wasnt my shard, it was a privelage to play there.. and i recieved an appology from the owner, as his GM was just following the "rules".
I am by no means, saying not to voice a complaint, just to understand, people are people. Anytime you deal with people mistakes are made, and translation of something is as diverse as the people translating it.
I have seen dozens of Convos, and statements over open chat.. "puff puff pass" so many that i dont remember tham all, and every time i just shook my head thinking theres another idiot that thinks drugs are cool.. Ive seen someone swearing on the chat, about being killed, or something didnt work the way they expected, and my thoughts were, theres another 13 year old that thinks swearing is cool..
But, I am old, and grew up with blisters on my butt at least once a week.. Every one of which was well earned and deserved, my father did a decent job of teaching me right and wrong, unfortunately the right and wrong of those days, does not match up to the right and wrong of these days... Yet I still hold to those values, they influence everything I do, and because of those values, I dont swear, or do drugs, and I respect others.... and i appriciate this shard all the more because of it.
This old man is done with his rant now.
Re: Enough is Enough
KnitePrince...wow, so refreshing to here. Its always nice to find people that are on the same page as you. i kinda thought about posting in here earlier today, about growing up and how protecting your children doesnt ruin their lives. i kinda waited it out and then you posted this which is great. so all i can really do is add my name to the bottom of your post b/c its basically what i would have said. i believe in moral living and the self control thing, like Rayne said. i grew up in a conservative environment and really i thank God to this day for it. im the oldest of 4 kids, things were not perfect growing up, but b/c of the way we were raised we really knew how to handle things as they came. sure when youre a kid you think that its just so unfair at times but its not like your mind is fully developed yet and you dont have much wisdom in your back pocket yet either. so anyway i dont want to go on and on b/c you said everything i would have, so thanks for it. 
when i have a kid of my own its going to be raised much the same. they'll call him/her "the near extinct moral and respectful child" haha. 
love,
Llexa
when i have a kid of my own its going to be raised much the same. they'll call him/her "the near extinct moral and respectful child" haha. love,
Llexa
"We push and we push away,
For fear of facing our mistakes.
So we call it judgment,
And watch our friends, our world, ourselves... go comatose, inside."
For fear of facing our mistakes.
So we call it judgment,
And watch our friends, our world, ourselves... go comatose, inside."
Re: Enough is Enough
Protecting ones child(ren) is a natural thing, of course. But, there comes a point where protecting them turns into smothering them. I find it very odd that some people here act ignorant enough to believe they can keep anything they do not want their child hearing from being heard. Sorry, it's not going to happen.
I've already stated my opinion on this matter a number of times, and yet I keep coming back and hearing more of the same old same old, repression of speech, and people acting like their children don't hear anything anywhere and shouldn't here either.
Fine, so be it, but at least allow those individuals who DON'T want to have to live under the thumb of censorship to have a chat channel of their own where YOUR children are NOT welcomed.
There is NO harm in that no matter what way you look at it, unless you REALLY are absolutely clueless as to what your child is doing and are afraid he/she may join the channel. In that case, it IS your fault. No if's and's or buts about it.
I don't like this shard because there are chat police everywhere, willing to turn in their fellow players because something someone said somewhere offended them (Again, you need to lighten up, seriously) ... I like the shard because the people are kind to each other, helpful, and the custom content can't be beaten. I am mature enough to ignore something that is said on a chat without acting like someone just slapped me in the face, apparently, some of you are lacking in that respect. If you were there on the night in question, you will see that I freely discussed drug use. During that discussion, I clearly stated my opinion that drugs and alcohol ruin peoples lives. Is that something you DON'T want your children to hear?
Coli asked me earlier tonight if I meant the staff or players when I referred to people living inside a bubble, and I apologize profusely for not having made myself clear to the staff on here. I meant absolutely no disrespect to the staff. My comments were 100% directed to those of you who think you're protecting your children from something they haven't been exposed to hundreds of times already. The staff were doing their jobs when they implemented a ban, whether it was deserved or not, I leave that up to them. I argued my warning only because it had indeed been given in error, if I had done something wrong,I would admit it without any further issues and go on with the game.
Rayne said that just because there is crap outside the game doesn't mean there has to be crap inside the game. I can follow that logic just fine, but again, why punish people for saying what they think when you could do something as simple as adding a no-children chat to the game? I hear so many of you voicing your objections over this, and again, it leads me to believe that you yourselves don't feel you have control over what your children do and are worried they would join the channel anyhow. Otherwise, what possible reason could you have to be against a chat channel like this? What harm is it doing? If your children aren't seeing it, you should be overjoyed at such an addition rather than crying about it.
Furthermore, again, someone pointed out consistency... I believe it was a staff member that said that you're free to discuss what you like in pm's, or in your houses, or in guild chat. Excuse me? If the same type of chat is going on there, what is to stop all these supposed children playing here from hearing it there? Children join guilds, children are in other peoples houses to buy things, or just chatting with other players. It makes no sense at all. What is your next step? Stop all typing in the game completely for fear of your child hearing the forbidden topic of drugs or alcohol? Good god, sometimes I wonder if any of you really think about what you're saying.
I'm sure I'm going to have some enemies after this, but if that is the cost of expressing my opinion, then so be it. I'd rather feel comfortable playing somewhere than having to wonder if every thing I say could possibly get me banned or not, and as you can see, I type a lot, I am long winded, and I enjoy it. To have to stifle my conversations even when they are against the entire topic is absurd, and I hope some of you guys can understand that.
I've pretty much had my entire say on this subject, and anything else I add to it would simply be repetition, so unless someone brings up some new aspect of this instead of the same old Oh, I have to completely smother my children and pretend they're not exposed to anything anywhere attitude, I'll remove myself from it from here on out.
I've already stated my opinion on this matter a number of times, and yet I keep coming back and hearing more of the same old same old, repression of speech, and people acting like their children don't hear anything anywhere and shouldn't here either.
Fine, so be it, but at least allow those individuals who DON'T want to have to live under the thumb of censorship to have a chat channel of their own where YOUR children are NOT welcomed.
There is NO harm in that no matter what way you look at it, unless you REALLY are absolutely clueless as to what your child is doing and are afraid he/she may join the channel. In that case, it IS your fault. No if's and's or buts about it.
I don't like this shard because there are chat police everywhere, willing to turn in their fellow players because something someone said somewhere offended them (Again, you need to lighten up, seriously) ... I like the shard because the people are kind to each other, helpful, and the custom content can't be beaten. I am mature enough to ignore something that is said on a chat without acting like someone just slapped me in the face, apparently, some of you are lacking in that respect. If you were there on the night in question, you will see that I freely discussed drug use. During that discussion, I clearly stated my opinion that drugs and alcohol ruin peoples lives. Is that something you DON'T want your children to hear?
Coli asked me earlier tonight if I meant the staff or players when I referred to people living inside a bubble, and I apologize profusely for not having made myself clear to the staff on here. I meant absolutely no disrespect to the staff. My comments were 100% directed to those of you who think you're protecting your children from something they haven't been exposed to hundreds of times already. The staff were doing their jobs when they implemented a ban, whether it was deserved or not, I leave that up to them. I argued my warning only because it had indeed been given in error, if I had done something wrong,I would admit it without any further issues and go on with the game.
Rayne said that just because there is crap outside the game doesn't mean there has to be crap inside the game. I can follow that logic just fine, but again, why punish people for saying what they think when you could do something as simple as adding a no-children chat to the game? I hear so many of you voicing your objections over this, and again, it leads me to believe that you yourselves don't feel you have control over what your children do and are worried they would join the channel anyhow. Otherwise, what possible reason could you have to be against a chat channel like this? What harm is it doing? If your children aren't seeing it, you should be overjoyed at such an addition rather than crying about it.
Furthermore, again, someone pointed out consistency... I believe it was a staff member that said that you're free to discuss what you like in pm's, or in your houses, or in guild chat. Excuse me? If the same type of chat is going on there, what is to stop all these supposed children playing here from hearing it there? Children join guilds, children are in other peoples houses to buy things, or just chatting with other players. It makes no sense at all. What is your next step? Stop all typing in the game completely for fear of your child hearing the forbidden topic of drugs or alcohol? Good god, sometimes I wonder if any of you really think about what you're saying.
I'm sure I'm going to have some enemies after this, but if that is the cost of expressing my opinion, then so be it. I'd rather feel comfortable playing somewhere than having to wonder if every thing I say could possibly get me banned or not, and as you can see, I type a lot, I am long winded, and I enjoy it. To have to stifle my conversations even when they are against the entire topic is absurd, and I hope some of you guys can understand that.
I've pretty much had my entire say on this subject, and anything else I add to it would simply be repetition, so unless someone brings up some new aspect of this instead of the same old Oh, I have to completely smother my children and pretend they're not exposed to anything anywhere attitude, I'll remove myself from it from here on out.
Re: Enough is Enough
Jeez most the people on this server need to lightin up .... its a freakin joke.. if you think this server has anything to do with your Childrens Future guess what!? It doesnt. If your so [_] worried, get them the hell off the Net and start doing some Phyonix or keep track with there school crap w/e. You people need to grow up and notice that its 2009 Welcome to the future.
Dont ruin other peoples game play for a bunch of 10 year olds.
Dont ruin other peoples game play for a bunch of 10 year olds.
Re: Enough is Enough
My colleague may be a tad crude, but is correct.In the grand scheme of things, chatter on a free uo shard is a drop in a very large bucket. There are far worse things to fret about. Besides, nothing attracts a child's attention better than a forbidden topic/object.
Charge your horses across the fields
Together we ride into destiny
Have no fear of death, when it's your time
Odin will bring us home when we die!
Together we ride into destiny
Have no fear of death, when it's your time
Odin will bring us home when we die!
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KnitePrince
- Legendary Scribe
- Posts: 233
- Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:20 pm
Re: Enough is Enough
Fine, so be it, but at least allow those individuals who DON'T want to have to live under the thumb of censorship to have a chat channel of their own where YOUR children are NOT welcomed. (By Jax)
Your missing the entire point..
thats fine if Coli decides to set up a channel, but.. why should he? Its stated this is a family shard, its how he wants it, so.. this --->allow those individuals who DON'T want to have to live under the thumb of censorship.. returns false, until Coli Decides otherwise.. i am not a child, my children are almost 21 years old, but "I" dont want to listen to the juvenile garbage breaths spouting off words because they think it sounds cool. Its why i play here.. another channel might fix that, However, I think, since few people would join that channel, there would be no one for the foul language to impress, so they would just return to the normal channel to try out their uber coolness... JMO
Dont ruin other peoples game play for a bunch of 10 year olds. (By Hathis)
THIS, is so silly that it boggles my mind, and other than that I wont reply about it...
My colleague may be a tad crude, but is correct.In the grand scheme of things, chatter on a free uo shard is a drop in a very large bucket. There are far worse things to fret about. Besides, nothing attracts a child's attention better than a forbidden topic/object.(By Asgeir)
two things I want to point out here.. Free UO Shard is the first.. its free, your not paying for it, so following the rules the guy that built it made shouldnt be too much to ask. a Drop in a very large bucket.. so your saying its ok to pee in the bucket everyone else wants to drink out of, but its ok because its just a little pee...
Second, yes there are far worse things to worry about, which is why parents shouldnt have to worry about it here.
If you go in for a job interview, do you spark up a doob and hand it to your prospective emplyer and say.. " I want a xxxxing Job maaaan!" nope, because its WRONG, if you did you wouldn't get hired, in fact youd probably meet the cops on your way out.
My best friend OD'd and died on the floor of the gym while I held his hand, Another friend came out of a drug induced coma and isnt much better off than a three year old, i have friends ten years younger than me that look like they are 80 from doing Meth.. i have a friend thats smoked pot all his life, his speech is slow, and he has a hard time thinking, and is still convinced to this day that pot is harmless.. so yeah, to me, talking about it as if it something cool is wrong, it is even offencive.. go home one day, when your 17, after holding your friend while he dies, and wash his vomit off your clothes, maybe your oppinion of cool will change.
basically, its Coli's rules, that have encouraged a friendlier environment than almost any other shard ive played on... No ruleset is perfect, No Rulset ever will be. Ask Coli to set up that Channel, if he says no, and you cannot live without talking about your drugs, or your fancy swear words, then go to some other shard that allows it... JUST, like if he decides to allow it, i wont even consider joining it.. or if, on the other hand, he ever decided to allow these things on open chat.. i would move on...
Do any of you, realize, even in a small part, the THOUANDS of hours he has spent to make this game work the way it does?
Go download your own server, and spend all that time and work to set it up, then you can make your own rules, and see what type of environment exists on your server. Basically what your asking him to do, is take time, time to create and code in a new channel, seperate from the existing channels, for no pay, so you can swear and talk about drugs.... i have a hard time rationalizing that..
in fact, I have a hard time rationalizing why this ruleset, on a free server, upsets anyone.
you dont have to live under the censorship, just like i wouldnt have to live without it.
Your missing the entire point..
thats fine if Coli decides to set up a channel, but.. why should he? Its stated this is a family shard, its how he wants it, so.. this --->allow those individuals who DON'T want to have to live under the thumb of censorship.. returns false, until Coli Decides otherwise.. i am not a child, my children are almost 21 years old, but "I" dont want to listen to the juvenile garbage breaths spouting off words because they think it sounds cool. Its why i play here.. another channel might fix that, However, I think, since few people would join that channel, there would be no one for the foul language to impress, so they would just return to the normal channel to try out their uber coolness... JMO
Dont ruin other peoples game play for a bunch of 10 year olds. (By Hathis)
THIS, is so silly that it boggles my mind, and other than that I wont reply about it...
My colleague may be a tad crude, but is correct.In the grand scheme of things, chatter on a free uo shard is a drop in a very large bucket. There are far worse things to fret about. Besides, nothing attracts a child's attention better than a forbidden topic/object.(By Asgeir)
two things I want to point out here.. Free UO Shard is the first.. its free, your not paying for it, so following the rules the guy that built it made shouldnt be too much to ask. a Drop in a very large bucket.. so your saying its ok to pee in the bucket everyone else wants to drink out of, but its ok because its just a little pee...
Second, yes there are far worse things to worry about, which is why parents shouldnt have to worry about it here.
If you go in for a job interview, do you spark up a doob and hand it to your prospective emplyer and say.. " I want a xxxxing Job maaaan!" nope, because its WRONG, if you did you wouldn't get hired, in fact youd probably meet the cops on your way out.
My best friend OD'd and died on the floor of the gym while I held his hand, Another friend came out of a drug induced coma and isnt much better off than a three year old, i have friends ten years younger than me that look like they are 80 from doing Meth.. i have a friend thats smoked pot all his life, his speech is slow, and he has a hard time thinking, and is still convinced to this day that pot is harmless.. so yeah, to me, talking about it as if it something cool is wrong, it is even offencive.. go home one day, when your 17, after holding your friend while he dies, and wash his vomit off your clothes, maybe your oppinion of cool will change.
basically, its Coli's rules, that have encouraged a friendlier environment than almost any other shard ive played on... No ruleset is perfect, No Rulset ever will be. Ask Coli to set up that Channel, if he says no, and you cannot live without talking about your drugs, or your fancy swear words, then go to some other shard that allows it... JUST, like if he decides to allow it, i wont even consider joining it.. or if, on the other hand, he ever decided to allow these things on open chat.. i would move on...
Do any of you, realize, even in a small part, the THOUANDS of hours he has spent to make this game work the way it does?
Go download your own server, and spend all that time and work to set it up, then you can make your own rules, and see what type of environment exists on your server. Basically what your asking him to do, is take time, time to create and code in a new channel, seperate from the existing channels, for no pay, so you can swear and talk about drugs.... i have a hard time rationalizing that..
in fact, I have a hard time rationalizing why this ruleset, on a free server, upsets anyone.
you dont have to live under the censorship, just like i wouldnt have to live without it.
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KnitePrince
- Legendary Scribe
- Posts: 233
- Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:20 pm
Re: Enough is Enough
Thx Llex, sometimes it feels like I am alone in how I think when I am around younger people.. Ive said Thank you Ma'am to a cashier and been yelled at.. "I am not OLD dont call me Ma'am!!!!" (Do the younger generation even know what Sir and Ma'am mean?) I have watched a group of kids walk out of the door to one of my stores, and let the door slam in the face of a lady with her arms full as she also tried to leave.. they call it progress, but I often wonder if we wouldnt be better off with more respect and manners, and a little less progress.Llexa wrote:KnitePrince...wow, so refreshing to here. Its always nice to find people that are on the same page as you. i kinda thought about posting in here earlier today, about growing up and how protecting your children doesnt ruin their lives. i kinda waited it out and then you posted this which is great. so all i can really do is add my name to the bottom of your post b/c its basically what i would have said. i believe in moral living and the self control thing, like Rayne said. i grew up in a conservative environment and really i thank God to this day for it. im the oldest of 4 kids, things were not perfect growing up, but b/c of the way we were raised we really knew how to handle things as they came. sure when youre a kid you think that its just so unfair at times but its not like your mind is fully developed yet and you dont have much wisdom in your back pocket yet either. so anyway i dont want to go on and on b/c you said everything i would have, so thanks for it.
love,
Llexa
When I graduated Bootcamp, we were all walking out the front gate in our dress uniforms, and two recruits in front of me saw an elderly man staring at them, and one of them said.. "What the XXXX are you lookiing at old man?" they walked on, and I stopped and appologised to him, on thier behalf.. he smiled at me, and said thank you. He told me, he was staring at them because it made him Proud of this country and our youth, and that my simple appology for something I hadnt done, had restored that pride.
I think, the days of common respect are fading. There was a time, when you saw a neighbor in trouble, you stepped up and helped.. I remember combining beans, for a neighbor that broke his hip just as harvest started.. we combined his fields, and put the beans into his bins.. it took him about a week after he got back from the hospital to find out which of his neighbors had done it... nowdays, it just seems like so many people turn the other cheek, and say, its not my problem.... I am not so sure i like progress.
Re: Enough is Enough
First off, no one here has any right whatsoever to stand in judgment of the way a parent chooses to raise/shelter/protect their own children! If they choose to let their children play on this shard because of it's family oriented atmosphere, that is their choice to make and in no way deserves any criticism. Secondly, I find it amusing how this thread actually originated from a guy that was literally banned and yet the discussion continues. Why? Wow, we aren't allowed to talk about drugs or swear.. it's the end of the world! C'mon now, gimme a break. This really is quite trivial!
Now, as for a separate channel being created for this sort of talk.. I don't see this idea being implemented. Aside from what KnitePrince said, which I feel is completely spot on, think about one thing. How many times a day do we see people say something in public chat that they meant for guild chat? You think that wouldn't happen if this "adult" channel was added?
JoeShmoe: Dude, I'm so pissed, I spent my last paycheck on an 8ball and it's already gone! I can't play this game without my favorite substance!
:: silence ::
JoeShmoe: Oops, sorry that was meant for the adult channel.
2 hours later, JoeShmoe is jailed for saying that in public chat. 1/2 an hour before that little Billy is asking his Mom, "Mommy, what's an 8ball, Joe said he can't play the game without it, I want one too!"
No, sorry, way too many problems could arise from that channel. But hey, as it's been brought up before, there's MSN, AIM, Yahoo.. tons of instant messaging programs that can be used to talk about these subjects. Yeah it sucks you gotta tab out of the game for that.. but it's a small price to pay if being able to talk about this subject is truly that important to you. Now personally for me, I've never quite understood why a stoner feels the need to talk about how high he's getting or how often he does.. almost seems like some sort of "bragging" (and it's not something to brag about) to me and I always roll my eyes at how foolish the person sounds. Agree with Knite on this too.. it's not cool and I also don't wanna hear about it. Heck, would ya wanna hear about my daughter's bowel movements while you're in the middle of killing Lady Mel?
Now, as for a separate channel being created for this sort of talk.. I don't see this idea being implemented. Aside from what KnitePrince said, which I feel is completely spot on, think about one thing. How many times a day do we see people say something in public chat that they meant for guild chat? You think that wouldn't happen if this "adult" channel was added?
JoeShmoe: Dude, I'm so pissed, I spent my last paycheck on an 8ball and it's already gone! I can't play this game without my favorite substance!
:: silence ::
JoeShmoe: Oops, sorry that was meant for the adult channel.
2 hours later, JoeShmoe is jailed for saying that in public chat. 1/2 an hour before that little Billy is asking his Mom, "Mommy, what's an 8ball, Joe said he can't play the game without it, I want one too!"
No, sorry, way too many problems could arise from that channel. But hey, as it's been brought up before, there's MSN, AIM, Yahoo.. tons of instant messaging programs that can be used to talk about these subjects. Yeah it sucks you gotta tab out of the game for that.. but it's a small price to pay if being able to talk about this subject is truly that important to you. Now personally for me, I've never quite understood why a stoner feels the need to talk about how high he's getting or how often he does.. almost seems like some sort of "bragging" (and it's not something to brag about) to me and I always roll my eyes at how foolish the person sounds. Agree with Knite on this too.. it's not cool and I also don't wanna hear about it. Heck, would ya wanna hear about my daughter's bowel movements while you're in the middle of killing Lady Mel?
Wise men speak because they have something to say;
fools because they have to say something.
- Plato
fools because they have to say something.
- Plato
Re: Enough is Enough
I would have to disagree with you here. Judging by the number of replies to this topic by those who feel that the chat restrictions are too much, and that the game is indeed being made less fun because every single line one types must be double checked to make sure it's not going to get you in trouble, I'd say a lot of people would join the channel. May just be my opinion, but I'm going by what I read here. 4 or 5 people saying they're against it for reasons that make no sense (Oh, they might accidentally put something in pub chat, even though it happens now from guild chat) ...Your missing the entire point..
thats fine if Coli decides to set up a channel, but.. why should he? Its stated this is a family shard, its how he wants it, so.. this --->allow those individuals who DON'T want to have to live under the thumb of censorship.. returns false, until Coli Decides otherwise.. i am not a child, my children are almost 21 years old, but "I" dont want to listen to the juvenile garbage breaths spouting off words because they think it sounds cool. Its why i play here.. another channel might fix that, However, I think, since few people would join that channel, there would be no one for the foul language to impress, so they would just return to the normal channel to try out their uber coolness... JMO
I have also noticed that not a single one of you against the idea touched upon my (and others) point in regards to guild chat, house chat and pm's ... Skyla almost did but she was trying to make a point about something else. So you're saying that if your kids can read things in guild chat, or in pm's sent by them, it's perfectly fine, as long as it's not in public chat, because not only do you not want your child seeing it, it annoys YOU?
I may be the one speaking out the most in regards to this subject, and yes, I feel it is a very important one. If any of you know anything about me in game by what I've written on the subject, I find that bragging about drug use, or that you got drunk off your butt last night IS childish and immature and probably not called for. I AGREE! We clear on that? What I disagree with is how you guys are acting, and how so many things are considered "questionable" on chat. I find that banning players for stating their opinions on topics to be ridiculous at the very least.
I must say, I am honestly not surprised that there are still people who would fight against getting a separate chat channel put in for those who want to talk how they like. I'm not surprised at all. I'm not for half the stuff said on the current chats, and yet I'd be all for this channel, yet, for some reason, you guys just want to make sure people behave exactly how YOU want them to with absolutely no regard for their thoughts or opinions ... as long as you are not offended. Unlike you, I do care about your opinions, even if it may not always seem like it, but you are entitled to yours. That is why the idea of a second chat room should please everyone, so that people with varying opinions can be separate from each other. If something accidentally spills over into public chat, it's no different than things are now. An apology would be given, and possibly a warning received, or a ban, but in the end, things would go much smoother for those on each side of the line.
Re: Enough is Enough
I dont even see why this being discussed. You should have read this before you ever logged in.
2. Language:
a. Keep chat clean - no cussing, arguing, harrasing, etc. .
b. No racial/religious/national/ethnical slurs are tolerated.
c. Guild chat and private messages are not monitored - rules there are not being enforced on a regular basis - however, statements can be taken as harrasment and reported to staff.
d. No advertisements or soliciting of real world entities allowed. Mentioning of a website, product, other shard, etc., is permitted to some extent, but should a staffmember deem your words to be an advertisement, you may be jailed, banned from chat, or even banned from the shard.
e. The staff reserves the right to deny use of any name in the game. If a player refuses to have their name changed, we will pick a random one. Should you have a complaint about another player's name, contact the staff. For disputes, follow rule 3.c and 3.d.
You can discuss right and wrong of this issue all day but its not about right or wrong. Colbi the man that set it up so we can play on his server wrote that stuff beacuse thats the way he wants it period. There is nothing to discuss about that.
2. Language:
a. Keep chat clean - no cussing, arguing, harrasing, etc. .
b. No racial/religious/national/ethnical slurs are tolerated.
c. Guild chat and private messages are not monitored - rules there are not being enforced on a regular basis - however, statements can be taken as harrasment and reported to staff.
d. No advertisements or soliciting of real world entities allowed. Mentioning of a website, product, other shard, etc., is permitted to some extent, but should a staffmember deem your words to be an advertisement, you may be jailed, banned from chat, or even banned from the shard.
e. The staff reserves the right to deny use of any name in the game. If a player refuses to have their name changed, we will pick a random one. Should you have a complaint about another player's name, contact the staff. For disputes, follow rule 3.c and 3.d.
You can discuss right and wrong of this issue all day but its not about right or wrong. Colbi the man that set it up so we can play on his server wrote that stuff beacuse thats the way he wants it period. There is nothing to discuss about that.
-
KnitePrince
- Legendary Scribe
- Posts: 233
- Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:20 pm
Re: Enough is Enough
I have also noticed that not a single one of you against the idea touched upon my (and others) point in regards to guild chat, house chat and pm's ...
you just dont get it do you? tell me why Coli should waste his valuable time, setting this up, so people can talk trash? Why should he spend however many hours rewriting the chat system so you can swear? or talk about drugs?
people seem to think, that they have the RIGHT to say what they want, they talk about Censorship etc... well, I dont know how to break it to you, but if Coli wanted to kick you off the server because he didnt like the color of your fingernails, theres nothing you could do about it.. this is HIS server.. he worked hard on it, and had an idea for how it should run.. he took that idea, and made it successfull, through hard work, and many hundreds of hours.. IT WORKS! Why change it because you and others, want to talk about things that are unethical?
I ran a server for many years, and i learned the hard way, you cant make everyone happy.. I TRIED!! and I can prove it, there are people playing on Excel, that played several years on my server.. it never fails, that someone always wants to change something that works, just to fit their own wishes and desires.. if he starts doing that, the changes will never end.. No, thats not right, the changes will end, because he will eventually get so fed up with the whining and complaining and WORK to impliment those changes that none of us will have a place to play...
I really dont care if you talk with green fumes coming out of your mouth, as long as I am not forced to listen to it.. i said If Coli creates the channel for you guys that want it, GREAT! I just dont see the point in him doing all the work!
In fact, it would probably be easier for him to just shut off the world chat, then none of us would have to worry about that.
I don't really care how you behave either, until your in my presance.. or in the presance of my wife, or family.. I spent three days in jail for "explaining" this very thing to my daughters boyfriend.. apparently the attitude adjustment worked, he is very polite and calls me Sir now.
you guys just want to make sure people behave exactly how YOU want them to with absolutely no regard for their thoughts or opinions ...
Rude is rude, swearing, and talking about certain things, sex, drugs etc, is RUDE, insulting, inconsiderate and shows a serious lack of attention in someones upbringing if they think its OK to do so in mixed company...
My ENTIRE point, may come into focus with my final sentance in this thread.
By ASKING Colibri to spend his time, to create a channel for the aforementioned reason, is even more rude, and inconsiderate, than actually saying those things in open chat.
Edit;
You can discuss right and wrong of this issue all day but its not about right or wrong. Colbi the man that set it up so we can play on his server wrote that stuff beacuse thats the way he wants it period. There is nothing to discuss about that.
TY karma
you just dont get it do you? tell me why Coli should waste his valuable time, setting this up, so people can talk trash? Why should he spend however many hours rewriting the chat system so you can swear? or talk about drugs?
people seem to think, that they have the RIGHT to say what they want, they talk about Censorship etc... well, I dont know how to break it to you, but if Coli wanted to kick you off the server because he didnt like the color of your fingernails, theres nothing you could do about it.. this is HIS server.. he worked hard on it, and had an idea for how it should run.. he took that idea, and made it successfull, through hard work, and many hundreds of hours.. IT WORKS! Why change it because you and others, want to talk about things that are unethical?
I ran a server for many years, and i learned the hard way, you cant make everyone happy.. I TRIED!! and I can prove it, there are people playing on Excel, that played several years on my server.. it never fails, that someone always wants to change something that works, just to fit their own wishes and desires.. if he starts doing that, the changes will never end.. No, thats not right, the changes will end, because he will eventually get so fed up with the whining and complaining and WORK to impliment those changes that none of us will have a place to play...
I really dont care if you talk with green fumes coming out of your mouth, as long as I am not forced to listen to it.. i said If Coli creates the channel for you guys that want it, GREAT! I just dont see the point in him doing all the work!
In fact, it would probably be easier for him to just shut off the world chat, then none of us would have to worry about that.
I don't really care how you behave either, until your in my presance.. or in the presance of my wife, or family.. I spent three days in jail for "explaining" this very thing to my daughters boyfriend.. apparently the attitude adjustment worked, he is very polite and calls me Sir now.
you guys just want to make sure people behave exactly how YOU want them to with absolutely no regard for their thoughts or opinions ...
Rude is rude, swearing, and talking about certain things, sex, drugs etc, is RUDE, insulting, inconsiderate and shows a serious lack of attention in someones upbringing if they think its OK to do so in mixed company...
My ENTIRE point, may come into focus with my final sentance in this thread.
By ASKING Colibri to spend his time, to create a channel for the aforementioned reason, is even more rude, and inconsiderate, than actually saying those things in open chat.
Edit;
You can discuss right and wrong of this issue all day but its not about right or wrong. Colbi the man that set it up so we can play on his server wrote that stuff beacuse thats the way he wants it period. There is nothing to discuss about that.
TY karma
Re: Enough is Enough
Knite and Llexa your not alone 
im raised the same way ..strict and with high morals there was no evil belt tho
and my own kids is raised same way and im very proud that i have managed to be single dad for 2 teens (dauther is 21 and son is 16) that thinks drugs is stupid plus they have good manners in general
i guess your right Llexa moral and etics in kids is a dying thing
im not that old tho..im only 37
im raised the same way ..strict and with high morals there was no evil belt tho
and my own kids is raised same way and im very proud that i have managed to be single dad for 2 teens (dauther is 21 and son is 16) that thinks drugs is stupid plus they have good manners in general
i guess your right Llexa moral and etics in kids is a dying thing
im not that old tho..im only 37
<<< legendary slacker
Re: Enough is Enough
I'm beginning to think, will all of the rules on the Codex require a 5-7 page long discussion?
Well I'm reading through it, and going to reply as I go.
Reply to initial post
Metallurgist: there was a time a few hours before your ban that I saw you chatting in the public about this, and i told you a few things, implying that it shouldn't be discussed. Then as you continued, I was working on some technical stuff, but +Rayne was there and jailed you. I was on MSN with her at the time, and i told that i previously implied that you shouldn't do that. This is what i said:
4.5. 01:32 +Colibri: i think this chat is much more suited for a guild chat
4.5. 01:33 +Colibri: not for a public chat where minors can participate
4.5. 01:33 +Colibri: ok then, private messages. Yeah, drugs aren't cool.
If you couldn't understand this, then perhaps some inactivity could have conveyed the message.
Technically you could argue that this wasn't a true warning, as it wasn't said something like "Metallurgist, this is a warning". But i think any person who is able to read and write, could see that his actions aren't desired, and could consider that as an important message.
What got you banned was not taking the first penalty seriously, and making new accounts... I could say "Oh but he didn't know he shouldn't do that", and i actually thought of this, but well if a policeman arrests you, every sane person knows it's best to just go to the station, talk the problem out, hope everything will be OK. But resisting arrest in the first place pretty much sends the message that you are the criminal.
I really want to comment on this post
What i want to say, if there is anyone else out there who's thoughts are similar to the ones in that post, then well i guess i can just roll my eyes
Sad to see this much disrespect towards someone who has had so much positive influence on the shard.
A related thought:
To anyone who has a month or two account age, and thinks he/she is a veteran... well that probably means we could call ourselves fossilized.
I'm not saying that newbies don't matter, more like: I remember when i was on my first shard for 1 month and i already felt like i own the place, i could solo champs and knew alot about the game already. This is probably how some players feel as well. But because this is your home, you have to consider that it's other people's home as well.
To explain the essence of why *talking about drugs* is bad.
In a way, I wouldn't mind an informed conversation about drugs. I know that kids these days can get their info in many places, and it's a shame how much of that information is wrong. But the thing is, when does an informed constructive chat about drugs turn into for example, talking about past or perhaps even your current experience?
It's best to keep it foolproof and just say it shouldn't be talked about in the chat. Black on white, no room for lengthy discussions about where the line was crossed.
The problem on our end is that we don't have 24/7 staff coverage, so some of these violations go unseen.
To comment on Metallurgist's defense that he donated to the shard:
Donating only gets you the ED rewards, the unitubs, perhaps a bless deed and occasionally an extra donation gift as well, when it's announced. You can choose to have the rewards right away, or you can choose to take some or all of it in the form of ED, that is if you want some time to choose what to pick, or if you want to sell them to other players.
Donating doesn't exempt you from the rules. I suppose there should be a disclaimer about it on the donation page.
If you want to buy your way into either breaking or changing the rules, then, ... well i'm not saying I can't be bribed But the price i would demand for such a thing would be insane. So insane that nobody would be interested. But who would sell their house so that they can do some unpunished mayhem here? 
About chatting
As stated in the codex, the public chat rules don't apply for guild chat. You can start a guild that is centered around your favorite activity, and invite people who share the same interest, and you can talk about it in your guild chat. But be careful not to mix your [g with [c, and that your guild name is acceptable, and that your members are behaving themselves in other chats, whether it's overhead chat in a public place, or public chat (same thing basically).
In reply to Sorenna's post: If a GM simply decided, "Hey, that guy was a real jerk in global chat, Im gonna monitor his pms, and toss him in jail if I dont like what I read."
Just a few weeks back someone asked me if we monitor private messages, well I can't give a simple yes/no, it's mostly no, but here's some facts i guess i can share: We make on average a 2.4MB log file every day. I'd say 50% of it is meta data, but that still leaves let's say 1.2 mb of pure chat text. If you were to print one average day, only with the essential meta data (time and who said it), on paper using 8pt arial font, 2 columns, it would be around 400 pages. The only people with access to this are administrators, people who have the highest level of trust, and have proved that trust for a long enough time, before becoming an admin. At the moment that's me and +Rayne, but what i want to say is, does anyone think we have the slightest wish or time to sit here 24/7 and read this? But if someone is causing problems, then we may or may not (depends on everything else that's going on) keep a closer look on that person for a limited time.
It's also why I don't like to go find proof in the log, and why i want exact date and time. But if there's no where else to turn for proof, then we still have it.
Democracy or totalitarianism
As for whether this shard is a democracy or totalitarianism... hard to say. I think that the system we have right now is quite good, and I think countries should adopt it, but unfortunately on a state-level it's pretty much impossible, because we don't have deities (let's say immortals who don't care about money or power).
It would be called democratic totalitarianism One person on top who doesn't care about him/her self (who is outside of the regular world), but in who's greatest interest is the welfare of others who he/she is reigning over. That means that even though he/she makes the decisions, he/she tries to get enough information from the people so that these decisions can be in favor of the people.
This is the type of ruling that in my mind is optimal, as long as you have an omnipotent & omnismart entity on top, hehe.
Although democracy in the real world right now is the safest option, I would like to quote Churchill: "Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time."
Unfortunately i'm not an omnipotent entity (not needing sleep would be a good first step), but i try my best to keep the shard as enjoyable place as possible, that pretty much means that it's in my best interest to do things in favor of the players, well, at least for the majority of the players.
A quick word on favoritism
I'm against it, it makes really little sense to bend the rules for a couple of people and see the majority of others disappointed or leaving. If you ever seen some favoritism played out, then you'd know this is far from it. I can't review every action that the staffers take, if i'd do that it would pretty much nullify the purpose of having staff, because it would be better if i did it all. There was a case of 24 hour jail just recently, when the player asked me to review the case, but i denied it; if it was a week jail i would most probably take a look even without the player's request. I do my best to keep an eye on the fairness of it all, and from all experience so far, I don't remember a "corrupt" staffer to ever go past GM rank. And at the moment i can say we have a very good team of responsible people (+Rayne, +Osiris, +Neptune, +Veritas).
Idea of multiple chats
Right now i have an idea that will go in, it's going to be [t trade chat. The thing with [a adult chat is as already written, you could make a mistake typing [c instead of [a, also that it would probably be pretty simple to turn on that chat.
One thing i would like to do is multiple shards, where they could have rule variations. Such as that one shard would be pretty much the wild west, where you can say anything, or do anything, such as not wait in line to get your turn for killing a monster. But it's a big thing to be coded, and i'm just one guy (EA has hundreds hehe), there's still many things i have to reconsider on what would be the optimal way to code it (because i want you to be able to log into any of the shards using the same username).
Keep things civilized, this is a public place
And my last thought, about keeping "civil excellence" as +Rayne calls it. Some of you may swear at your home, may swear when you're around friends... but if you come to a public place where you know only a some of the people, you probably watch your manners. That's what we expect here as well. Since you are at home at your screen you may have a feeling that you can feel completely "at home".
Fact is that on a busy evening there's 100 other people on the shard, and if you don't count those that are AFK that probably still leaves around 30-50 that are present on the chat (just reading it perhaps). If you cuss or talk about sensitive topics in a public place, probably just a few people would talk to you back, but a lot of others who would keep quiet would be giving you the look. This look of discomfort/disagreement unfortunately can't be seen over your keyboard.
You're in luck to find me well rested after a vacation, if this wasn't the case I don't know if i would post such a long reply.
Well I'm reading through it, and going to reply as I go.
Reply to initial post
Metallurgist: there was a time a few hours before your ban that I saw you chatting in the public about this, and i told you a few things, implying that it shouldn't be discussed. Then as you continued, I was working on some technical stuff, but +Rayne was there and jailed you. I was on MSN with her at the time, and i told that i previously implied that you shouldn't do that. This is what i said:
4.5. 01:32 +Colibri: i think this chat is much more suited for a guild chat
4.5. 01:33 +Colibri: not for a public chat where minors can participate
4.5. 01:33 +Colibri: ok then, private messages. Yeah, drugs aren't cool.
If you couldn't understand this, then perhaps some inactivity could have conveyed the message.
Technically you could argue that this wasn't a true warning, as it wasn't said something like "Metallurgist, this is a warning". But i think any person who is able to read and write, could see that his actions aren't desired, and could consider that as an important message.
What got you banned was not taking the first penalty seriously, and making new accounts... I could say "Oh but he didn't know he shouldn't do that", and i actually thought of this, but well if a policeman arrests you, every sane person knows it's best to just go to the station, talk the problem out, hope everything will be OK. But resisting arrest in the first place pretty much sends the message that you are the criminal.
I really want to comment on this post
I am seeing some hostility against +Rayne lately, and here's what I want you all to read and understand. There has been no other person on the shard who took their position with more responsibility than her, for this length of time. We've had quite a number of staffers already, some simply got bored, some got tired with the constant problems coming up, and there have been a few that took their powers too personally. It has been over 2 years that she's been here, and not just the kind of staffer that comes around whenever he/she feels like answering 2 pages and then going offline, thinking how much work they just did... I mean the consistency to work, even when pages have been coming in non stop for 6 hours straight... or the time when she just woke up and saw the mithril disaster, and didn't have a time to eat breakfast until 8PM. Yes, 8PM.Rained wrote:+Rayne just banned someone and she has no idea that she is about to cause the end of this server.
Colibri, I recommend you start a new server and get rid of this trash you have as administration, because you are a kick a$$ guy and have a kick a$$ server.
What i want to say, if there is anyone else out there who's thoughts are similar to the ones in that post, then well i guess i can just roll my eyes
Sad to see this much disrespect towards someone who has had so much positive influence on the shard.A related thought:
To anyone who has a month or two account age, and thinks he/she is a veteran... well that probably means we could call ourselves fossilized.
I'm not saying that newbies don't matter, more like: I remember when i was on my first shard for 1 month and i already felt like i own the place, i could solo champs and knew alot about the game already. This is probably how some players feel as well. But because this is your home, you have to consider that it's other people's home as well.
To explain the essence of why *talking about drugs* is bad.
In a way, I wouldn't mind an informed conversation about drugs. I know that kids these days can get their info in many places, and it's a shame how much of that information is wrong. But the thing is, when does an informed constructive chat about drugs turn into for example, talking about past or perhaps even your current experience?
It's best to keep it foolproof and just say it shouldn't be talked about in the chat. Black on white, no room for lengthy discussions about where the line was crossed.
The problem on our end is that we don't have 24/7 staff coverage, so some of these violations go unseen.
To comment on Metallurgist's defense that he donated to the shard:
Donating only gets you the ED rewards, the unitubs, perhaps a bless deed and occasionally an extra donation gift as well, when it's announced. You can choose to have the rewards right away, or you can choose to take some or all of it in the form of ED, that is if you want some time to choose what to pick, or if you want to sell them to other players.
Donating doesn't exempt you from the rules. I suppose there should be a disclaimer about it on the donation page.
If you want to buy your way into either breaking or changing the rules, then, ... well i'm not saying I can't be bribed
But the price i would demand for such a thing would be insane. So insane that nobody would be interested. But who would sell their house so that they can do some unpunished mayhem here? About chatting
As stated in the codex, the public chat rules don't apply for guild chat. You can start a guild that is centered around your favorite activity, and invite people who share the same interest, and you can talk about it in your guild chat. But be careful not to mix your [g with [c, and that your guild name is acceptable, and that your members are behaving themselves in other chats, whether it's overhead chat in a public place, or public chat (same thing basically).
In reply to Sorenna's post: If a GM simply decided, "Hey, that guy was a real jerk in global chat, Im gonna monitor his pms, and toss him in jail if I dont like what I read."
Just a few weeks back someone asked me if we monitor private messages, well I can't give a simple yes/no, it's mostly no, but here's some facts i guess i can share: We make on average a 2.4MB log file every day. I'd say 50% of it is meta data, but that still leaves let's say 1.2 mb of pure chat text. If you were to print one average day, only with the essential meta data (time and who said it), on paper using 8pt arial font, 2 columns, it would be around 400 pages. The only people with access to this are administrators, people who have the highest level of trust, and have proved that trust for a long enough time, before becoming an admin. At the moment that's me and +Rayne, but what i want to say is, does anyone think we have the slightest wish or time to sit here 24/7 and read this? But if someone is causing problems, then we may or may not (depends on everything else that's going on) keep a closer look on that person for a limited time.
It's also why I don't like to go find proof in the log, and why i want exact date and time. But if there's no where else to turn for proof, then we still have it.
Democracy or totalitarianism
As for whether this shard is a democracy or totalitarianism... hard to say. I think that the system we have right now is quite good, and I think countries should adopt it, but unfortunately on a state-level it's pretty much impossible, because we don't have deities (let's say immortals who don't care about money or power).
It would be called democratic totalitarianism
One person on top who doesn't care about him/her self (who is outside of the regular world), but in who's greatest interest is the welfare of others who he/she is reigning over. That means that even though he/she makes the decisions, he/she tries to get enough information from the people so that these decisions can be in favor of the people. This is the type of ruling that in my mind is optimal, as long as you have an omnipotent & omnismart entity on top, hehe.
Although democracy in the real world right now is the safest option, I would like to quote Churchill: "Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time."
Unfortunately i'm not an omnipotent entity (not needing sleep would be a good first step), but i try my best to keep the shard as enjoyable place as possible, that pretty much means that it's in my best interest to do things in favor of the players, well, at least for the majority of the players.
A quick word on favoritism
I'm against it, it makes really little sense to bend the rules for a couple of people and see the majority of others disappointed or leaving. If you ever seen some favoritism played out, then you'd know this is far from it. I can't review every action that the staffers take, if i'd do that it would pretty much nullify the purpose of having staff, because it would be better if i did it all. There was a case of 24 hour jail just recently, when the player asked me to review the case, but i denied it; if it was a week jail i would most probably take a look even without the player's request. I do my best to keep an eye on the fairness of it all, and from all experience so far, I don't remember a "corrupt" staffer to ever go past GM rank. And at the moment i can say we have a very good team of responsible people (+Rayne, +Osiris, +Neptune, +Veritas).
Idea of multiple chats
Right now i have an idea that will go in, it's going to be [t trade chat. The thing with [a adult chat is as already written, you could make a mistake typing [c instead of [a, also that it would probably be pretty simple to turn on that chat.
One thing i would like to do is multiple shards, where they could have rule variations. Such as that one shard would be pretty much the wild west, where you can say anything, or do anything, such as not wait in line to get your turn for killing a monster. But it's a big thing to be coded, and i'm just one guy (EA has hundreds hehe), there's still many things i have to reconsider on what would be the optimal way to code it (because i want you to be able to log into any of the shards using the same username).
Keep things civilized, this is a public place
And my last thought, about keeping "civil excellence" as +Rayne calls it. Some of you may swear at your home, may swear when you're around friends... but if you come to a public place where you know only a some of the people, you probably watch your manners. That's what we expect here as well. Since you are at home at your screen you may have a feeling that you can feel completely "at home".
Fact is that on a busy evening there's 100 other people on the shard, and if you don't count those that are AFK that probably still leaves around 30-50 that are present on the chat (just reading it perhaps). If you cuss or talk about sensitive topics in a public place, probably just a few people would talk to you back, but a lot of others who would keep quiet would be giving you the look. This look of discomfort/disagreement unfortunately can't be seen over your keyboard.
You're in luck to find me well rested after a vacation, if this wasn't the case I don't know if i would post such a long reply.
+Colibri, Administrator of UO Excelsior Shard
Don't know what the purpose of your life is? Well then make something up!
(Old Colibrian proverb)
Don't know what the purpose of your life is? Well then make something up!
(Old Colibrian proverb)
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KnitePrince
- Legendary Scribe
- Posts: 233
- Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:20 pm
Re: Enough is Enough
"moans"
This is the type of ruling that in my mind is optimal, as long as you have an omnipotent & omnismart entity on top, hehe.
Were all DOOMED!
This is the type of ruling that in my mind is optimal, as long as you have an omnipotent & omnismart entity on top, hehe.
Were all DOOMED!