Vendor Update 2018

[Wil]

now it's become (for some anyways) -> Let me list this item higher than normal, since I'm not paying for it, and take offers til I get something I like.

So what? Why is it a problem to let folks display their items for a modest weekly fee as an invitation to negotiate? How is that harming anybody?

There have been a LOT of complaints, about TC being overpriced, which is in my opinion completely true.

So Bob wants 12 ED for his spined leather boots. Cry me a river.

The TC vendors work well for what they are: an accessible place for slow-moving expensive items to sit and be searchable until someone is ready to buy. An art gallery not a 7-eleven. The only problems I see are:

1. That particular space is better suited to being a 7-eleven. The art gallery should be somewhere you don't stumble in to during the first 5 minutes you play the game.

2. There are more players who want to run an art gallery than there are galleries available.

Regards,
Wil

[Yoda]

3. Id rather have my art gallery at my house for convenience and organization, wait i can't because its super cost prohibitive.. rubbish

removal of fees is a must but then further to what wil just said..

tc IS a better place for a 7 eleven is there means to get there that won't cause a revolt, itemcount limits, price ceilings something empirical?

[Wil]

I don't think TC style vendors belong in TC where new players start. The fee structure at TC should encourage noob-accessible pricing for rapid sale. Cheap or even free for stuff that sells fast enough. Emphasis on enhancing the newbie experience over sinking gold.

To make this more concrete for the sake of discussion, I think it'd be fine if:

* A TC style vendor area was set up in some of the big empty space at Ex Halls without changing the vendor parameters at all. Or maybe have a couple themed areas... Relayer hall. Powerscroll pavilion.

* The vendors at TC were changed to something like a fixed 2k gold per week rate, 1% fee for every item that sells within 72 hours, 5% after that and a 10k gold cap on what any item can be priced at. Discourage using that area to sell things which are out of the reach of new players.

Regards,
Wil

[darkred]

New player here. Albeit I registered my forum account 2 years ago, I did not start to play till last week (Thurs)

There are several things that frustrate me and many I enjoy. I will limit this to vendors to comply with the threads purpose.

Vendors, regadless of how many millions they have on them, no stock for 2-3years? That seems pointless, a waste of resources AND a waste of my time Granted, I am not young and I forget what vender has what, but I do know to avoid that EX place that is a giant town with vendors and NPC sellers, because every vendor there is 2-3 years old......I would suggest an inactivity period. If a person has not restocked or created a sale within, say, 2 months, the vendor packs up and their money and items go to their bank/a box/ whatever

I know, minor thing, but those little things bug the hell out of me

I also found the login a confusing, since it was in TC. Perhaps an actual "newbie" start point that does not bomb your screen with 50 vendors, of which many are.....old and unused. I do not use the TC vendors, there is no point for me to do so now. I have to click on each one to check dates. Common sense tells me if they are 3 months with no updates or older, then what is worth having is long gone....or it is so overpriced that even the bloated players laugh at it.

I left UO 20 years ago. I did like the player runes to X house, with inscriptions giving a basic premise of goods. I also can understand the desire to create a focal point, but why not make it that giant, unused, SPACE SWALLOWING, mini-city that already has years olf and unused vendors?

[Versales]

Three things - First, I agree that it can be a bit over whelming to have your first log in happening right into TC. I think a much better area might be starting at the Brit bank. Maybe creating a mini series of quests to introduce newcomers to TC/Trisc Something like "Farmer bob wants you to take these tokens and buy X item for him from the Token stone, then he wants you to visit is his buddy Jeff the merchant at Town center"

Second, What about having some sort of system in place either like the town portal system, where you can buy your first week in TC for 50k, second week is 200k, third week is 400k forth week is 800k (Or something like that) that way people will either A) drop their vendor once they sell the item they are trying to sell, thus creating more turn over. or B) if a person doesn't log in for a couple months they are going to taking quite the bath. But that in itself helps create a gold sink and an incentive for even wealthy players to log in and drop their vendor or become destitute. This might also help create some turnover in TC So if player X wants to sell his SoT for a bazillion ED people can look forward to waiting a couple weeks and a new vendors will be available more likely to sell them an SoT at a decent price. The current system allows people to just log in once a week and refresh the price, so you get a lot of just plain old stagnant stuff on vendors (I am totally guilty of this myself)

Third, what if you paid a "tax" upfront for posting an item. non refundable. That way you will think doubly hard about if you want to post that SoT for 10000000ED or if you want to price it at a point you really think it will sell within your budgeted timeframe. Because if you drop your vendor after a week and your items haven't sold then you aren't recouping that money.

[Silent]

...Maybe creating a mini series of quests to introduce newcomers to TC/Trisc Something like "Farmer bob wants you to take these tokens and buy X item for him from the Token stone, then he wants you to visit is his buddy Jeff the merchant at Town center"

New player here. Albeit I registered my forum account 2 years ago, I did not start to play till last week (Thurs)

There are several things that frustrate me and many I enjoy. I will limit this to vendors to comply with the threads purpose.

This is a very important matter that should not be lost in this discussion, I would encourage you both to open a new thread where the community could leave some ideas to inspire devs.

[Octavius Thorn]

good gracious we don't need anymore new player love then we already have sheesh... for the time being anyways... the most grotesquely overlooked grouping on this shard.. the 2 to 4 year vet and more then 5 relayer... but by all means lets get more item reservation system upgrades wth???

[Muolke]

There's many valid points. I just pulled my MZ vendors because the fees were eating up all the profits.

My suggestion is that you cap the fees per item. It would solve many issues.

Make the vendor fee per item be 1% of the sale cost per day up to a max of 25% at 25 days. If items remain for longer then 25 days there's no more fees.

The weekly fees on the vendors in MZ should be offset by the fess you pay on items. So if the weekly fee is 20,000 gold and you paid 15,000 in item fees for that week then your weekly fee should only be 5,000. This would really help with the lower cost items.

I also think that the TC vendors should not be able to be sold. It's become somewhat of a racket. Make it so if there's ever an empty spot it's given out as a raffle. Make the cost of a TC vendor be 10-20 mil gold (depending on location) and you submit that amount to enter the raffle. Then the winner of the raffle gets the vendor spot and everyone else gets their money back. I would also add that only 1 TC vendor spot should be allowed per RL player (yes per account...but some people may get greedy and create separate accounts to get multiple vendors etc).

It is my understanding that the cost of TC vendors is simply 3% of the sales price. I would also add a 1% listing fee.

Finally, i'd like the prices to come back to the vendors website. It's a free market, let people shop for the cheapest price for an item without wasting an hour looking at 20-30 vendors to see who has the cheapest.

[Terra]

Did you ever wonder why we get here in first place?
'Cos of WHINING!
Some were whining how they were undercut by a cent, so the prices were removed from the site. Others were whining how they can't sell their "expensive" items(fair or overpriced), so the daily fee were removed. Now you whine about overpricing? Someone set a billion ED item for sale. So what?! Who cares? Do you think it will ever sale? Any item set for sale on a price with more than 4-5 digits of ED's(or equivalent gold) will probably NEVER sale and it is set there as a joke!

"Gold sink"... Are the vendors the place where u want to sink the players gold? With taxes? Someone send a pm to negotiate a price and he gets it 10-15% lower than the price set on the vendor initially. Avoiding tax. And that's bad? How about that - the price set on the vendor at first were too high for the player buying the item so negotiation were not to avoid the tax, but to "equalize" the "fair" price with the seller?!
And what happen to the Grand Auction where billions of gold were removed from the game? Were they not designed by default to be the "gold sink" of the shard?

[+Requiem]

Did you ever wonder why we get here in first place?
'Cos of WHINING!
Some were whining how they were undercut by a cent, so the prices were removed from the site. Others were whining how they can't sell their "expensive" items(fair or overpriced), so the daily fee were removed. Now you whine about overpricing? Someone set a billion ED item for sale. So what?! Who cares? Do you think it will ever sale? Any item set for sale on a price with more than 4-5 digits of ED's(or equivalent gold) will probably NEVER sale and it is set there as a joke!

"Gold sink"... Are the vendors the place where u want to sink the players gold? With taxes? Someone send a pm to negotiate a price and he gets it 10-15% lower than the price set on the vendor initially. Avoiding tax. And that's bad? How about that - the price set on the vendor at first were too high for the player buying the item so negotiation were not to avoid the tax, but to "equalize" the "fair" price with the seller?!
And what happen to the Grand Auction where billions of gold were removed from the game? Were they not designed by default to be the "gold sink" of the shard?

Prices were removed from the vendors site, because of massive undercutting of prices and overall detrimental effects to the economy of the shard as a whole. It needed to happen, and I would not support re-listing items with prices attached.

The purpose of a vendor, is to sell an item or items for you, while you are afk/away doing other things. The purpose isn't to negotiate the price. It's to sell stuff, hopefully at the price set by the seller. If you want to negotiate prices, you can make a shop where there are tables, and either talk with other players in game, or make a forum post to discuss it.

As far as gold sinks, there should be a fee, but it shouldn't be overwhelming. If you look back to my initial post, I say the purpose of vendors is to generate income for the sellers. That doesn't mean there can't be a small fee attached to the sale, where you pay the vendor - and it acts as a gold sink. Unfortunately, due to the nature of games - we have unlimited resources. There needs to be sinks to remove them from the game. As you mentioned, Grand Auctions are one. Vendors are another.

Make the vendor fee per item be 1% of the sale cost per day up to a max of 25% at 25 days. If items remain for longer then 25 days there's no more fees.

25 + 24 + 23 + 22 + 21 + 20 + 19 + 18 + 17 + 16 + 15 + 14 + 13 + 12 + 11 + 10 + 9 + 8 + 7 + 6 + 5 + 4 + 3 + 2 + 1?

That's 305% of the selling price. So, if you were selling an item for 100 gold, and it sat for 25 days, you would owe 205 gold? I don't think that's what you mean.

I agree that vendor spots should not be "sold" in town center, or other locations, and 1 per person in TC.
I disagree on the pricing on vendors.uoex.net. Many prices plummeted, and it was bad for the overall health of the economy. Searching for vendors, in my opinion is part of the game, and finding a great deal is exciting. I think too many people got used to the auction house style, where everything is just at your fingertips with a quick search. It's not a bad system, but I think it also takes something away.

Second, What about having some sort of system in place either like the town portal system, where you can buy your first week in TC for 50k, second week is 200k, third week is 400k forth week is 800k (Or something like that) that way people will either A) drop their vendor once they sell the item they are trying to sell, thus creating more turn over. or B) if a person doesn't log in for a couple months they are going to taking quite the bath.

I don't think this system lends itself to being very competitive, as far as pricing goes.

Vendors, regadless of how many millions they have on them, no stock for 2-3years? That seems pointless, a waste of resources AND a waste of my time Granted, I am not young and I forget what vender has what, but I do know to avoid that EX place that is a giant town with vendors and NPC sellers, because every vendor there is 2-3 years old......I would suggest an inactivity period. If a person has not restocked or created a sale within, say, 2 months, the vendor packs up and their money and items go to their bank/a box/ whatever

You're talking about the vendors in excelsior halls. Most of those were moved from Town Center for inactivity to live out their days. Unfortunately, most of them were forgotten, and their owners, long gone. Something should be done about them, I agree.

I also found the login a confusing, since it was in TC. Perhaps an actual "newbie" start point that does not bomb your screen with 50 vendors, of which many are.....old and unused. I do not use the TC vendors, there is no point for me to do so now. I have to click on each one to check dates. Common sense tells me if they are 3 months with no updates or older, then what is worth having is long gone....or it is so overpriced that even the bloated players laugh at it.

TC vendors are all refreshed within 10 days, or they are automatically removed. I think you have them confused with Excelsior Halls vendors.

[Wil]

The purpose of a vendor, is to sell an item or items for you, while you are afk/away doing other things. The purpose isn't to negotiate the price. It's to sell stuff, hopefully at the price set by the seller. If you want to negotiate prices, you can make a shop where there are tables, and either talk with other players in game, or make a forum post to discuss it.

Hi +R,

What is the need to dictate the purpose of a vendor from on high? In the TC-style vendors you have a game mechanic which, voting with their feet, the players seem to like. Why not let the players decide what the purpose of that game mechanic is and how best to put it to use?

Regards,
Wil

[mattwaldram]

Here are a couple of ideas I'd quite like to see implemented, taking on board some of what has already been mentioned so far in the thread:

1. First, I don't think that TC should be drastically changed, or moved. I think it's important to have a central hub/vendor area, and it makes sense to keep it as Town Centre. However, I would suggest changing the starting location for new players to Ex Halls. Again, that makes most sense (to me) as it's also where many of the early quests start from (sefarers, mistvale etc).

2. Activate the vendor mall at Ex Halls. It's a cool area, and would look great if it was actually populated. However - being a newbie area - I think there should be a cap set on the value of items sold on those vendors, something low but sensible. I think having a "low value" area would be a good way to get people selling craftable items, low-end artis, loot etc. It would give new players some decent equipment but not make them balk at the prices, and it would be a good way to sell the lower-end stuff. Maybe have lower commission on the items sold on these vendors, to encourage people to put the lower-end items here, rather than TC.

3. I think the way fees are charged at TC should be mirrored across the board, i.e., removing the x% daily fee that you currently have at e.g. MZ. There should definitely still be fees, and there should still be a %age commission taken, as there should be a service charge for making use of vendors.

4. Leave Town Centre with a couple of unique selling points: namely, the different currencies can be reserved for TC, so that it retains some of its edge over the other vendor locations.

5. I would be really tempted to set a cooldown period on cancelling vendor spots after purchase - maybe a 7-day window where they can't be cancelled. This won't necessarily remove the fact of people selling their vendor spots, but it will just make it a bit more difficult to do so. I've seen a couple of times recently where someone was waiting for a vendor spot to open because they legitimately wanted the spot, and had items to sell, but they got pipped to the post by someone else - and in those instances, within minutes of buying the spot, they were on world chat saying "Selling TC Vendor Spot." Now, people are going to sell them - that's largely unavoidable, and I think they *should* be allowed to do so... but I think it's a bit galling that someone who genuinely wanted the spot to use in the way it's intended loses out to someone who just wants to turn it over for quick millions. So it's okay to accept that it will happen, but perhaps should be discouraged somewhat. The 7-day window may be a way to achieve that.

6. To combat the extortionate pricing done, sometimes deliberately to encourage people to PM for selling separately (and avoid the tax), then I think you could include a de-listing charge of X%. I don't think we should be forbidding people from selling items separately, after some negotiation directly... because sometimes this benefits the new/mid-level players too. If they see an item charged at X, and they can PM the vendor owner and say "Would you accept Y?" then that's a benefit... so we shouldn't rule it out. Instead, we just make it so that the seller has to factor the fee into whatever their selling price is. This way it doesn't remove an option for players that can benefit the seller and the buyer alike - and we shouldn't look to remove such options - but it does take away the issue of avoiding fees, and it is something that the seller can easily factor into their negotiations on price.


There's an awful lot for +R, +C, and +A to think about, here, and they're not going to please everyone, but if a couple of these things can be addressed, I think it could make a huge difference. I especially think that getting a more newbie-friendly mall activated at Ex Halls - and having new players start there - would be a huge step.

[Muolke]

25 + 24 + 23 + 22 + 21 + 20 + 19 + 18 + 17 + 16 + 15 + 14 + 13 + 12 + 11 + 10 + 9 + 8 + 7 + 6 + 5 + 4 + 3 + 2 + 1?

That's 305% of the selling price. So, if you were selling an item for 100 gold, and it sat for 25 days, you would owe 205 gold? I don't think that's what you mean.

No. I mean 1+1+1+1+1+1 and at 25% there's no more of a charge. So if your item sells after 6 days you paid 6% on it. If it sells after 2 months it's cost you 25%.

Does that make sense?

[Athena Tenebris]

Here are my thoughts.

1. Too many enforced rules kind of kills the fun and makes things too controlling. Rules are needed; but not to go overboard.

2. TC is fine for the most part. One change I would probably make is when a Vendor is Dismissed or Drops due to inactivity; the empty seat should not be able to be claimed anywhere from 1 hour to 3 hours. Make it random if you must. This will stop the selling/trading of these vendors without actually forcing any rules on anyone.

3. Vendors elsewhere; Make Fees very similar or same to TC. TC remains Unique due to the different currencies. I did like the listing fee plus selling fee idea as well.

4. By going to a listing fee + selling fee; if someone lists an item; they pay the fee. If they negotiate with a player and sell outside of the Vendor; then they still paid a FEE. I find this a good solution to the thoughts of not wanting people to utilize vendors to sell through PM since a fee is still taken.

5. TC definitely should *NOT* be the starting point for New Players. New Player needs a tutorial zone or even starting in Haven or Excelsior Halls (If Ex. Halls- needs rework - someone mentioned low end vendors which may be good; or even move the newbie donation boxes to starting area there)

6. No matter what is decided; some will be unhappy. You can not please everyone no matter what and that will never change and is quite ok. it is just how things work and how we are built.

[Silent]

Overprices items = overpriced taxes...

This just reminds me of the old barons protesting against the king's taxes ...

I don't see many new/medium players arguing these prices what may be the reason ...

Just one thing why is it wrong to sell a seat? I see land being sold isn't that the same?