Variable recall cooldown

[ZeeeQi]

This post has been deleted because it was duplicated

[MagicUser]

For a recall nuke, I was thinking about it and I realized that you could do a domain shift (one problem -> another problem).
Think of recall locations as servers. Think of scripts like protocols.

Then you can think of recalling like data transfer, where players are the data.

You could randomize transmit probability (recall success). You could randomize transmit time (time it takes to recall). You could randomize service time (mob health). You could randomize data stability (recall location).

And to top this off, if you think about the destination as the server, then you only do these randomizations when the destination is a monitored server.

I am not very good with computer networking concepts, but I feel like there should be a lot to explore if you look at recall farming as a networking problem. As long as you are good with networking, I guess. Perhaps that is not a given.

This would eliminate the effect of a recall debuff on other aspects of the server. It would encourage mob searching.
Randomizations are also famously hard for clients to parse and trivial for the server to come up with.

Would it remove script farming? I doubt it. But then none of the other suggestions would either.

I do have a feeling that even if this was easy to program. It would take a long long time to verify that it is working exactly as intended.
I believe this would likely hurt novice scripters the most, then manual players, and then good scripters. But that is what I have said from the beginning. Recall penalties will only widen the gap between novice scripters and good scripters. It might shorten the gap between manual players and novice scripters though. I guess it depends on what the goal is.

[Wil]

Section 1.13: post breakdown

• Diminishing returns based on repetition.

Would work. I think diminishing returns based on repetition would work to suppress excessive script farming.

Section 1.15: post breakdown

• Nerfing balrons is not a good use of time.

No, I was saying that nerfing balrons would both be ineffective and do more harm than good.

If it were just a waste of time, I'd say try it and see what happens.

Section 1.23: post breakdown

• Per account per mob per day gold cap.

Per account per day gold cap. Not per mob. Specifically on the gold which drops on corpses, not other sources.

Could be combined with diminishing returns instead of a hard cut-off. The first balron you kill today drops 8k gold but the 100th only drops 80.

[MagicUser]

Given there is an acceptable recall solution. I think its important we evaluate what the actual goal is.
Do we want there to be only clever scripters at the top, or do we want there to be areas where only good scripters can make scripts and areas where novice scripters can make scripts?

I have to be real here. I tend to think of recall scripting as the easy way out. You just need a recall script and a combat script. Everything else is efficiency. Even with this, recall scripting is obviously not the most profitable method of gold farming (from the top auction results). So the goal is not to reduce the gold the top gold makers are making. I am not saying that should be the goal, but given that was the goal. Recall penalties would not be the fix.

If the goal is to increase afk check time, I think Wil hit the nail on the head. Why not just make an afk check mode that prevents the player from moving and keeps them and their pets safe. Not everyone can sit there and tank a balron to death with rpd.

If the goal is to reduce spawn coverage. I think that's a hard topic.
Since a blanket recall penalty will affect a lot more than just over covered spawns.

If you increase recall time you are also increasing the time you have to spend at a location that someone else is already at. This leaves more opportunities for accidently getting involved in someone else's mobs. Think about it this way. If it takes 10s to recall to the next location. You are presenting a target for mobs for 8 additional seconds. You cannot hide in the balron area. Your script may not be auto attacking anything, but that doesn't mean mobs won't attack you instead of the player who is already there. Advanced scripters will start running to the next spot, but not most novice scripters.

I believe that the best way to tackle this problem is to encourage players to stay in a spot longer. And the only way I can think of doing that is to reward them for staying there longer (more gold for taking longer to kill something).

Of course all of this is irrelevant if scripting is banned, which would sadden me deeply.

[MagicUser]

Thank you, fixed.

No, I was saying that nerfing balrons would both be ineffective and do more harm than good.

Per account per day gold cap. Not per mob. Specifically on the gold which drops on corpses, not other sources.

[Wil]

What if you keep the variability of the gold drops, but use combat time or damage/health as a factor in the gold drop.
For example, lets say a balron drops 1k-8k gold.
A scripter who kills the balron in 5s could expect a lower average (maybe 1.5k gold) than a young player that takes 5 minute to kill a balron (maybe 5k gold).
Thoughts?

Not bad. Start the timer with the first hit scored on the mob. Aside from the development effort required of +C, I see no down sides, not even the disadvantages you listed.

It doesn't increase gold drops, so how would it increase inflation? If someone leaves to try to maximize the timer then other players can come in and take it instead, so that's a non-problem too.

Development-wise it'd mean adding a first-hit timestamp to the mob object, and then changing the gold drop computation to scale based on current time minus the first hit stamp. That's more than a trivial code change but less than a difficult one.

[Geriatric]

What if you keep the variability of the gold drops, but use combat time or damage/health as a factor in the gold drop.
For example, lets say a balron drops 1k-8k gold.
A scripter who kills the balron in 5s could expect a lower average (maybe 1.5k gold) than a young player that takes 5 minute to kill a balron (maybe 5k gold).
Thoughts?

im one of the newer players and a manual player, 0 relayers
i can kill a balron in about 30 - 40 seconds bow+arrow

cant say im terribly keen on this idea,

it might be fine for someone with half a dozen relayers and maxed out defence increases to sit there and go toe to toe with a balron for a minute, and although other monsters i can still bring down pretty quick it does involve some ducking and diving from time to time

im not that eager to see my gold drops reduced after having a fight with a mob in which we were just racing to see which one of us could kill each other first

[arni]

ok so how about this for a solution

1 no nerf to balrons in tram
2 no recall penalty

3 add three restricted areas so vets cant get in only one said anything bad about this was one of those uber rich uber relayered people because they wouldn't be able to farm there
this would give younger players more chance of earning enough for relayers
these areas would be normal tram rule set so no increase in gold xp or spawn rate then any other spot in tram

4 increase gold drop on lvl 5 creatures in fel and ish
because really are the scripters going to run 30 secs to spots to find them dead and recall out of ish maybe add incurring mana drain of 50% or run all the way into fel spawns and then have to run all the way out
yes i know it can be scripted but would it really be worth it
yes they can camp it but then that would free up other spots as they wouldn't be recalling to 20 spots

personally i like the recall plan as really how would this effect young players as much as they don't have the mana or the fc/fcr to move that fast anyway. it wouldnt effect the manual players at all we just not that fast

[Geriatric]

i do like the idea of increasing the gold drops for felluca, it should x2
after all the mobs do have twice the amount of health
you cant recall out of dungeons at all
and even if you recall out of fel you get a mana freeze

but it shouldnt just be for balrons
it should be for all mobs

and since ilshenar has paragons i dont know if the gold drop on mobs there really needs to change

[Jebidia]

What if a 50% increase in gold drop excluding Balrons was implemented? This would help new players and should take some of the pressure off Balrons. I remember WAY back when on OSI when the AOL Legends server first came out (and a bit before) Everything dropped more gold. I think the problem is that as we grow our characters up they just keep getting stronger. Lets face it, compared to OSI we are 10 times stronger at least. With relayers almost nothing in game can compete gear wise. But, the side effects of this is it would put 50% more money per drop out there for everyone. This may provide balance to Bally scripters but, inflation could go through the roof.

We do need a way to balance out some of the gold people are making from scripting. So, maybe holding balrons where they are and boosting other mobs by 50% will help do this. Instead of getting 300 gold from an earth ell drop, you would get 450 and so on. While not a huge increase, maybe enough to balance out the gold pool some.

I do like the idea of double gold/resources in Fell. Not being able to recall to spots and the penalty for recalling out, makes it a pain to hunt there. The plus side of this though, it would encourage people to explore Fell, and find new hunting spots. So, for players not running scripts and newer players it would become a viable hunting ground.

[Silent]

I have to be honest here. Muolke kinda created the attention hype to the problem and solved it... there are no heroes here, but at least we got the scripts released so anyone can farm ballys now. No need to complain about scripting skills. So now its just the same problem of having more spare time. We are not all going to quit our jobs so... How about the Hues?

[Geriatric]

well not really no... even though theres a script out there free for anyone to use, not everyone can use it
some people arent powerful enough to just let some script fight a balron for them

you have to dodge and evade a bit

the problem isnt so much as scripted balrons, as it is the amount of gold balrons drop

[Silent]

well not really no... even though theres a script out there free for anyone to use, not everyone can use it
some people arent powerful enough to just let some script fight a balron for them

you have to dodge and evade a bit

the problem isnt so much as scripted balrons, as it is the amount of gold balrons drop

Its all about growing. You all have to understand that balrons are farmed by completely end players who have nothing else to do. We can't complain that we can't kill a creature... I once went to sanctuary when I was able to kill a balron, that not end well for me... It is a game.

Having a script out there is far better than not having anything. But we still have to be able to fight a creature... that can not be complained.

I think everyone is just complaining about "something"... Its the gold, its the time, its the mob strength, its the mob weakness ... You want to be able to bid against 5y old players that play daily? what will be next ? taxation of the rich?

If you cant fight balron, grab some nobles, head to doom, get geared... At the bc current price why is no one there? Everyone must be rich I guess...

[Zanzi]

I have to be honest here. Muolke kinda created the attention hype to the problem and solved it... there are no heroes here, but at least we got the scripts released so anyone can farm ballys now. No need to complain about scripting skills. So now its just the same problem of having more spare time. We are not all going to quit our jobs so... How about the Hues?

great point here. I feel the same way. maybe 6 months back or so, there would only be 3-4 ppl that I can see farming balrons regularly. Overtime, one or two would be farming more or less but will always be the same people. You can say it was very profitable. Staying away from naming individuals. And honestly not intending this to be inflammatory. But very consistently seeing one person around 9pm central time go till the early morning and another starting early am hours and goes on for hours after that. Then there are people like me, Egore, Orionness, Dreamstalker, and maybe a few other springled in. Even so, it was good gold farming. Now I see at least 5-10 others. It is no longer and the problem is now solved. The solutions proposed are great, but I rather see +C put his time and resources toward a few other things that can improve the shard more.

[Muolke]

I have to be honest here. Muolke kinda created the attention hype to the problem and solved it... there are no heroes here, but at least we got the scripts released so anyone can farm ballys now. No need to complain about scripting skills. So now its just the same problem of having more spare time. We are not all going to quit our jobs so... How about the Hues?

It's interesting you say this because this is really what it's all about. Al the fuss created recently by those that farm balrons for 6-8 hours per day isn't about anything other than they're upset that now more people can do that.

Is the problem solved? I wouldn't say solved but having more players farm that area certainly lessens the problem.